Designing a brew system for Wisconsin Weather

Hi
It is time to replace my original wooden gravity feed sculpture. I am interested in a single level system using a march pump. I also want to be able to brew on my patio, but also move the system into my garage for winter brewing. The system will be stored in the garage as well.

In addition, I want to move away from propane to natural gas. Further, I will transfer my cooled wort via gravity flow directly to a carboy in my basement.

I seek advice on the process I will be proposing and on the methods to be used. I would think this is a multi month project and I have a lot to learn.

Gammon N Beer said:

Hi
It is time to replace my original wooden gravity feed sculpture. I am interested in a single level system using a march pump. I also want to be able to brew on my patio, but also move the system into my garage for winter brewing. The system will be stored in the garage as well.

In addition, I want to move away from propane to natural gas. Further, I will transfer my cooled wort via gravity flow directly to a carboy in my basement.

I seek advice on the process I will be proposing and on the methods to be used. I would think this is a multi month project and I have a lot to learn.

Click to expand...

My first question:

My patio is situated right next to the natural gas pipe leading into my house.

How long can a gas line using a quick connect to that gas line be?

To move into the garage for brewing would require up to a 25 foot line. Would that be too long? What do I need to be concerned about as far as safety or efficiency?

All the same precautions go for NG as they do for LPG. Get a good Carbon Monoxide detector in your garage and open a window. Do you have any isea what type of brewery you wish to build (HERMS, RIMS or DIMS)?

Sawdustguy said:

All the same precautions go for NG as they do for LPG. Get a good Carbon Monoxide detector in your garage and open a window. Do you have any isea what type of brewery you wish to build (HERMS, RIMS or DIMS)?

Click to expand...

TY for the response. I do not have the Carbon Monoxide detector but always keep the garage door open. I will add the detector for next winter.

1) Can I have a quick connect natural gas extension hose attached to my homes gas line that is up to 25' long?

2) I am not certain which type of system I will eventually have. Right now I am interested in building a single tier steel frame. I will have two burners immediately and design it for the third as an add on later. (BTW I batch sparge using a Coleman Extreme and like the system.)

As I want to be able to brew both outside as well as in my garage, a wheeled sculpture is important.

Here is a picture of my system, it was just painted so this is a "staged" picture obviously, but you get the idea. It's setup for electric now, previously propane. With it I can batch sparge, fly sparge, use it as a completely gravity fed system to the carboy or two tier using a pump (as shown). The wheels are 10 inch rubber so I can move it in the garage, on the driveway, etc very easily, even while brewing, as it always seems to start raining after the first hop addition.



I can't offer any advice about the natural gas extension, but I would be very leary about having a 25 foot pipe of NG laying on the driveway. I suspect you would be much safer to have a pipe buried and have some sort of outlet at the spots where you intend to brew.

We get the same weather (here in KY) as you do, just a lot less of it

I went all electric and love it. I have some strategically placed 30a plugs and enough cord to brew outside as well.

Here is a video of my last brew session on my electric/insulated rig.

All I need is a single 30A 240VAC outlet and I can power all of my 240VAC and 120VAC equipment. I love the hell outta this thing.

HomebrewJeff said:

Here is a picture of my system, it was just painted so this is a "staged" picture obviously, but you get the idea. It's setup for electric now, previously propane. With it I can batch sparge, fly sparge, use it as a completely gravity fed system to the carboy or two tier using a pump (as shown). The wheels are 10 inch rubber so I can move it in the garage, on the driveway, etc very easily, even while brewing, as it always seems to start raining after the first hop addition.

I can't offer any advice about the natural gas extension, but I would be very leary about having a 25 foot pipe of NG laying on the driveway. I suspect you would be much safer to have a pipe buried and have some sort of outlet at the spots where you intend to brew.

Click to expand...

Nice looking system there.

No, I would not have a 25' pipe. Rather, I seek advice about using a 25' flexible pipe with quick disconnects attached to my homes natural gas system.

I stopped at a plumbing store and now believe I can get Natural Gas from my homes setup to my brew station for about $50.00.

My next question.

My neighbor when I asked him if he ever sells steel, (He builds stainless steel tanks. Big ones.), told me he has various types of aluminum stock left over from a job. Some is flat stock and others is angle stock.

I am thinking that as I do not weld, maybe using all aluminum bolted together might be an option. I am asking opinions on this.

Would aluminum be an ok product to build a single tier system? Somebody has posted a sweet looking sculpture made of wood, so, am I that far off base?

Why not? With the money you save over Stainless, have it powder coated to protect the aluminum.

Sure. I've built some stuff using 8020. Check out ebay.

I would like to begin planning this build by developing a list of materials and sources.

Natural Gas issue:
How do I determine the size of the plumbing I will need for using natural gas? Will it be one inch, 3/4 inch? What will determine the size of the NG piping system? Is it the pressure in my home system? Or, is it dependent upon some other factors?

Gammon N Beer said:

I would like to begin planning this build by developing a list of materials and sources.

Natural Gas issue:
How do I determine the size of the plumbing I will need for using natural gas? Will it be one inch, 3/4 inch? What will determine the size of the NG piping system? Is it the pressure in my home system? Or, is it dependent upon some other factors?

Click to expand...

Bump.............

Sizing is based on available pressure, burner BTU load ( how many at once and size), and length of pipe and number of fittings.

Sizing gas pipe is engineering magic as kladue mentioned. I can tell you that I successfully run about 100kBTU worth of burner at the same time on 25' of 1/2" ID hose + 10 more feet of 1/2" hard pipe where it meets my 1" trunk line. I don't know what my pressure is though. I think using 5/8" ID hose would be a good safety net.

25 feet! you are going to need to use 3/4 inch hose and no smaller
NG is realy low presser like .25 psi as in 1/4 lbs per inch.
improper pipe sizing is so common becase it will still work, just not as good as if done right
no 2 or 3 burner NG rig should have any pipe smaller than 3/4 inch in the supply line
even all small burner home gas ranges have 3/4 inch inlets.
and be sure you put a stop lost valve just past the ball valve and before the disconncet on the conection from the house
this will stop the flow of gas if the hose is unhooked , cut , burned in two ect.

use this to tell if you have to much presser drop on your rig
* » * » Manometer

what burrners are you goign to use you may need even larger.

If you will share the burner number and sizes, feet of travel to burners on rig, and any and all direction changes I should be able to give you a pipe size for this application.

Thanks Kladue, Bobby & Clayton for your responses. I really did not know where to begin as I plan the purchase of my parts for this project.

I gather from you all that I need to start with the burners, and what I want them to do. Then move to pipe size as that will push the burners efficiencies. Clayton alluded to efficiency of burners when he wrote, "improper pipe sizing is so common becase it will still work, just not as good as if done right..."

I batch sparge and will use two burners to do so. But I want the stand built with enough space and a capped, "T" to allow the addition of a third burner for mashing with direct heat in the future if I want to go in that direction.

I will head out and research some burner options now. I will no doubt post back with questions on that area.

Again, thanks

It's going to depend on your desired batch size max. If that's 10 gallons, there are basically two burners to choose from.

Multi-Jet Natural Gas Burner Mini : BBQ Guys


Or you can go with the Hurricane with the nat gas orifice installed.


I haven't used this one but I do like the fact that the heat range is a bit more adjustable because it uses a single air intake with damper.

The Hurricane burner with NG is excellent. I used it on 13 gallons of wort in a keggle recently and it had to be backed off from a ferocious boil. I don't even think I have it well dialed in as it is going from 1/2" pipe down to 3/8" id QD flex. It still is giving a nice almost all blue flame and due to its size it covers a large portion of the bottom of the keggle. I am using a slightly small orifice than the one that is sold by Williams or Northern Brewer. (don't ask me the size because I don't remember)

I have actually been following Bobby_M's concern with the multi jet burner as far as the ability to adjust the flame.

I was leaning that way though, based on cost. Now, with samc's rave review I headed over toward the NB site and found the Hurricane is only $35.00 or so. That is doable and I will plan to purchase two and stub in for a future third.

With that, unless there are other issues you folks can add, I will return to planning the pipe size.

BTW - I do want the system to provide ten gallons of finished beer. I am currently using keggles but will design the system to allow larger diameter SS pots as well. (I want to plan/build for the future as much as I can.

Hi

I have some questions about Quick Disconnects. I have my March 809 pump and now want to purchase some QD's.

I am using high temp tubing that is 3/8" ID and 1/2" OD.

Will I end up wishing I had a different size later on when I am brewing 10 gallon batches?

The local brew shop I go to has plastic QD's for about $16.00 a set. In glancing around the web I find some brass sets for about $11.00.

Any thoughts on plastic vs brass?

Does anybody have a good source for purchasing a handful of these? BTW how do I determine how many I will need?

Thanks

Gammon N Beer said:

Hi

I have some questions about Quick Disconnects. I have my March 809 pump and now want to purchase some QD's.

I am using high temp tubing that is 3/8" ID and 1/2" OD.

Will I end up wishing I had a different size later on when I am brewing 10 gallon batches?

The local brew shop I go to has plastic QD's for about $16.00 a set. In glancing around the web I find some brass sets for about $11.00.

Any thoughts on plastic vs brass?

Does anybody have a good source for purchasing a handful of these? BTW how do I determine how many I will need?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You may wish you had 1/2" ID hose, the pump performs much better when it isnt as restricted. I know, been there.

You can get NICE brass QDs at McMaster Carr for like $6 for a female end and $1.50 for a male end. VERY heavy duty, plenty of guys here use them.

You can determine how many you need by, well... deciding where you will need them. Typically the barbed female ends are on the hoses and the threaded male ends are on the vessels. No one but you can really tell you how many you will need.

I took your advice, The Pol, and converted my 3/8" system to 1/2". I also used Mc Master's with the help of Bobby & Sparky.

My next question is a bit less technical.

I will be transferring my cooled wort from a ground level patio through my basement window into my fermentation carboy.

Of course I will be using 1/2" ID high temperature tubing for the hot side of the brewing process.

But for the 20ft. of 1/2" tubing used for the transfer I would like to use a cheaper grade of tubing. Someone in a post on this site wrote that people should use the high temp so we do not get, "off flavors" in our product.

The high temp tubing is $1.00/ft compared to .35 cents for an alternative. Although it is no big deal, I would like to save a bit of money for other purchases.

Thoughts?

Gammon N Beer said:

I took your advice, The Pol, and converted my 3/8" system to 1/2". I also used Mc Master's with the help of Bobby & Sparky.

My next question is a bit less technical.

I will be transferring my cooled wort from a ground level patio through my basement window into my fermentation carboy.

Of course I will be using 1/2" ID high temperature tubing for the hot side of the brewing process.

But for the 20ft. of 1/2" tubing used for the transfer I would like to use a cheaper grade of tubing. Someone in a post on this site wrote that people should use the high temp so we do not get, "off flavors" in our product.

The high temp tubing is $1.00/ft compared to .35 cents for an alternative. Although it is no big deal, I would like to save a bit of money for other purchases.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

You can use the cheap tubing no problem

I picked up a couple of Hurricane burners and now need to plan them into a single tier brew stand.

I will be using natural gas to power them. I use converted kegs to brew.

How far below the bottom of the keg, should I place the Hurricane burners?

Anybody have experience?

Thanks

Anybody have any good ideas on how to hang Hurricane burners in a DIY brew stand?

I will be using natural gas, a single tier three burner system.

In an ideal world, I would like the burners to be able to be moved up or down until I have the system, "dialed in" as far as each individual burner and purpose.

Gammon N Beer said:

Anybody have any good ideas on how to hang Hurricane burners in a DIY brew stand?

I will be using natural gas, a single tier three burner system.

In an ideal world, I would like the burners to be able to be moved up or down until I have the system, "dialed in" as far as each individual burner and purpose.

Click to expand...

Mine is not dialed in, but if you buy it with the stand, its 2.5 inches. I think its a little too close for a kettle, but it might be too much for a keggle with its extra skirt at the bottom. I use a 15 gallon pot on it and alot of flames shoot around the sides.

Thanks for all that have posted information on my build.

I believe that soon I will be moving forward on the project and will have my steel.

I now am concerned about plumbing the gas.

Am I able to use copper on the brew structure? It would be much easier than black pipe.

Any ideas?

Opps, not quite done.

I began this post some time ago as I planned the design of my single tier system. At that time I set this thread up as a winter brewing thread, not just as a single tier thread.

In December I was brewing my third batch on the sculpture when I broke the plastic head off of my March pump. It was a very cold day on 12/26 and the outlet stub just snapped.

I then ordered a brass replacement that I have yet to use.

But I thought I would share my pump mount for winter brewing idea with you.

My intent is to be able to carry the pump into the house after brewing outdoors. There, I can run cleaner and sanitizer via recirculation in the comfort of my basement.

I set it up on a post type structure with a handle. It is easy to move around my brew sculpture during my brew session, and, it is easy to carry from my patio into my house.