Cut back first hop shoots? Or wait and cut back all but best 3?

I've got three plants that are coming in to their 2nd year, and they're just starting to poke through.

I've read some advice that you should cut back all of your first shoots and wait for the 2nd or even 3rd batch. I've also read that you should just let them all grow and then when they're bigger, cut back all but the strongest 3 or 4.

The second method seems to make more sense to me, but I'm wondering what everyone here does.

Thanks...

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Maybe one of the pros will give advice. Last year I decided to trim my second year plants. I thought what do I have to lose. My chinook grew back strong but my other second year plants never recovered.

My experience is I wouldn't do.
I've read one reason pros cut back their plants is so they have uniform growth. Consider how much they have to harvest. Pros try to harvest once.
Homegrowers sometimes get two yeilds if they let early hops grow. Pros do have the time to pull in growth and second growth. It's to cumbersome.
I have no plans to cut back my early growth. If someone wants to change my mind let's discuss it. Last years experience says this is a bad idea for the home grower.

Cut back the first round of shoots. Don't let them grow too big before cutting them back. The reason for this is to allow more stored energy for the second round of shoots. once the second round grows choose 3 and then cut anything else back that shoots up. Hope this helps.

Retrofit said:

Last year I decided to trim my second year plants. I thought what do I have to lose. My chinook grew back strong but my other second year plants never recovered.

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This is what I'm concerned about as well, given that I only have 2nd year plants. I imagine plants that are older, and have larger energy stores underground, can handle being trimmed back once or twice more.

PurpleJeepXJ said:

Cut back the first round of shoots. Don't let them grow too big before cutting them back. The reason for this is to allow more stored energy for the second round of shoots. once the second round grows choose 3 and then cut anything else back that shoots up. Hope this helps.

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Why are the second round of shoots better? Why not just let ALL the energy go into the first round of shoots?

I honestly don't know the science behind it since I am not a biologist. My guess would be that the first shoots put the rhizome in 'grow mode' and whatever energy is gained through photosynthesis from those first shoots is stored in the root making the root bigger to support the shoots that you cut off. The root doesn't know that those original shoots are cut off so it supplies more nutrients to the next shoots that grow. I may be completely full of crap but that growing process is the simplified version that i have been told for years. My degree is in history so science is not my thing. Maybe we need one of those fancy hop farmers to chime in.

If your trying to go organic your putting the crown at risk by pruning early. Downy and powdery mildew are a pain to get rid of once the spores take hold of your plant. And if you dont know what to look for you'll end up having to destroy the plant to reduce the spread to other crowns. And your at the greatest risk in early spring when theres still a lot of moisture. Your not going to effect your yield on year two by cutting the first shoots. Just wait tell all of them come up them pick the largest ones and try and train 2-3 per string. This should be a good read for you http://www.crannogales.com/HopsManual.pdf, if growth stunts go get UAN 32 fertilizer from your local irrigation store and use as directed. Hops love nitrogen!!

PurpleJeepXJ said:

I honestly don't know the science behind it since I am not a biologist. My guess would be that the first shoots put the rhizome in 'grow mode' and whatever energy is gained through photosynthesis from those first shoots is stored in the root making the root bigger to support the shoots that you cut off. The root doesn't know that those original shoots are cut off so it supplies more nutrients to the next shoots that grow. I may be completely full of crap but that growing process is the simplified version that i have been told for years. My degree is in history so science is not my thing. Maybe we need one of those fancy hop farmers to chime in.

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Friend, please save us all the misdirection and quit offering advice based on a 'guess'. Honestly, that entire post was nonsense unless you can back it up by fact. No offense intended; I want answers as much as you. If anyone has any credible reasons for pruning the first bines chime in. Otherwise, it sounds like unnecessary nannyism, such as watering a plant growing in a swamp.

I tend to agree, I've been growing vegetables for awhile now and key to growing good vegetables is understanding the biology behind why they produce well or just good enough (or terrible in some cases). Vegetables are far higher demand than hops, and my bible for growing vegetables is a book that explains the biology, chemistry and variables behind the process, adapted to my climate.

I guess I'm kind of spoiled cuz I hope to find the same information for why people practice cutting back the first hop shoots. There must be a reason, and it's possibly a really good reason, but I want to know what that reason is.

Even better if that answer is given based on climate, because I think the answer may vary depending on what part of the US you're growing hops in.

Can anyone explain the reason? Or do people just do this because other people tell them to?

Removing the apical meristem (the bud at the tip of the bine) upests the balance of growth hormones in the plant (auxin, cytokinin and gibberilin) and causes more growth from the lateral meristems; this can cause the plant to grow thicker and produce more flowers and fruit.
That said, I'm not sure if removing the first shoots will have the same effect on bines that originate later in the season. Perhaps the recommendation to remove the first shoots orginates from an effort to avoid front damage early in the season...

Pruning the 1st growth sets the plants timing.You really dont want them on the rope until the end of May,1st of June.I trim back around the 3rd week of April.If you train to early the plants race up the rope and produce few side shoots.Last couple of days to order Rhizomes Cheers Glen

i pre ordered some rhizomes. should i do this with first year plants?

Hopfarmer said:

Pruning the 1st growth sets the plants timing.You really dont want them on the rope until the end of May,1st of June.I trim back around the 3rd week of April.If you train to early the plants race up the rope and produce few side shoots.Last couple of days to order Rhizomes Cheers Glen

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I'm assuming that the timing mentioned (May/June, etc.) is based upon your climate and does not apply to all growing zones.

also i just want the plant to be healthy, i don't need a huge harvest or anything. i just want to make sure they grow, just to check it out. im new to this, so easier is better for me (less chance of me screwing them up).

rycov said:

i pre ordered some rhizomes. should i do this with first year plants?

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we would like to know

If you are planting rhizomes for the first time it's a good idea to allow all of the vegetation grow. The leaves are like solar panels that collect light energy and the plant turns that into carbohydrates used to achieve more growth. Any excess is sent back to the crown/roots where it's stored for future use. Being that the little first year plant has no roots and limited reserves, it's a good idea to help her out by allowing all the leaves she can produce stay in tact.

Second year and beyond you can remove the early first growth for a number of reasons. By now the plant has built up plenty of reserves to grow well with just a few vines climbing. One reason for removing first growth is that many of the new shoots are not uniform. Some big fatties and some stragglers. Supposedly, there is a better chance to select more uniform shoots to allow to climb with the later surge of growth thus producing a more uniform harvest. Also, in colder climates the first growth will usually get frosted off anyway

Thanks to everyone who provided answers...

I have been researching this question for some time now and the only reasons that I can find for cutting back the first shoots are
1. Control Harvest timing
2. Belief that this practice will have a positive effect on harvest results

Notes - This practice seems to be confined to the PNW / colder growing climates

I have had several creepers (late stage runners that went up a nearby fence) that heavily produced cones with very few leaves. The leaves that these sleepers had were small...very small compared to the gigantic leaves the main plants normally produced.

I also had a couple of first year nuggets that were not cut back, that by the end of September produced 1lb of dried hops each.

There may be something to the practice - however its going to depend on your climate. The PNW I believe, tries to keep them cut back till the first of June or right before then. That would kill my plants here as we are experienceing 70 degree days and lows in the upper 40's and lower 50's. I have 8" buds exploding from all plants of all 10 varieties. Ill do my first harvest around June 14 -cut back and then get a second harvest in September. I expect at least a lb (dried) from each plant per harvest.

So even if early pruning does increase harvest - lets just say that it does for the purposes of this conversation - by 50%. that means Ill get 1.5lbs from a plant per season. By not cutting back and accepting the lower first harvest but allowing a second harvest I get 2 lbs per plant per season.

So in order for this practice to make sense - cutting them back would have to increase thier cone production by 100%. I have seen no evidence that early pruning would produce this kind of result.

I have cut back a number of plants to test this practice and by the end of the year there is no difference in production between plants that were pruned early and those that were allowed to grow.

There is also another little fact that up until I started transplanting a few weeks ago seemed like a no-brainer.
While transplanting my 100+ plants to new beds this year I started cross referencing root size to production.

Most people (including myself until I started transplanting) believe that the bigger the rootball the more production of the plant as there are more nutrients stored in the rootball for cone production.

This is factually incorrect.

Root size/mass has nothing - repeat - nothing to do with cone prodution.

My biggest producers are Nuggets. I had 10 2nd year plants and 7 first year plants. The first years did just as good and for 2 of them that got a new fert treatment I was experimenting with did much better. As I was digging them up I noticed that the 2nd year plants had rootballs 3'wide and 3' deep...the first year plants you could still hold the original rhyzome and they had 3 to 4 roots maybe 10" across at best and about the size of pecils. BUT they did have an amazing amount of micro roots.

This result was extremely consistant across every plant of all varieties and when you took this information and crossreferenced it with each plants production it became clear that production- in the context of root mass/size - has no meaning. The biggest producers had the most micro roots not the biggest rootball.

So when your talking production "Size Doesnt Matter".

Cheers

Edited Below -

First year Nugget - no cut back - each node were full of these - plant produced 1.07 lbs dried

Interesting that you say this practice seems to be confined to the PNW, as I live in Portland, OR. Do you think that it really has something to do with the climate, or more to do with most of the professional growers growing out here in the PNW, and this is something they practice to get a more uniform harvest?

damdaman said:

Interesting that you say this practice seems to be confined to the PNW, as I live in Portland, OR. Do you think that it really has something to do with the climate, or more to do with most of the professional growers growing out here in the PNW, and this is something they practice to get a more uniform harvest?

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At this point I would have to conclude that it is mostly for timing the harvest and to some degree, in colder climes, to slightly increase production.

Here in the south - at least from my experience - I show no increase in production, but our growing season starts in March where as I believe it starts in June(for hops) in your area. So if you have a shorter growing season then it would make sense to cut back to help from frost stunt(While frost does not seem to harm the hops it does tend to slow or temporarily stop growth) and to ensure the plants start uniform growth.

I only have 1.25 acres so I am not really concerned about harvest timing. If your talking about 100 acres - then yeah -you need to make sure that you can harvest in enough time. So there it makes great sense.

As a blanket practice that will increase your production and that should always be practiced as a fundamental part of hop horticulture - The jury is out on that one. At this point I tend to disagree with that assertion.

Cheers

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Agreed there seems to be scant evidence one way or the other. Maybe few experiments have been done on hops because of the small market, compared to other agricultural products, that hops command. In addition to malt, barley is grown for silage (cow, chicken, and pig feed), so it has a bigger market, and it gets some research dollars.

It might also be easier to do a controlled experiment in barley because it's an annual: the seed is a common starting point for each plant, and you can have tens of thousands of trials in a small field. Perennial hop plants seem to each have a unique root stock, and you can only fit tens of trials in a small field.

We need somebody to cut 20 or so rhizomes from a single old-growth plant into roughly equal sizes, plant and grow up the 20 rhizomes for a whole year, then on the second year, prune half early and let the other half grow. Do everything else identically to both groups, and compare hop yield. Anybody have the time and land to do it? It's expensive, but you'd get a lot of hops, and you'd have an important answer. You might even be able to publish it in an academic journal.

Here is one small anecdote in favor of early season pruning. In Michael Jackson's book "The Great Beers of Belgium", he writes, "The eating of hop shoots, jets d'houblon, is enjoying a revival. The natural season for this succulent, nutty, delicacy is short: for about three weeks, from mid March to the beginning of April, during which time the shoots are normally being thinned." At least we know the practice isn't confined to PNW, though it still may be a high-latitude thing.

I kinda think the whole hop shoot thing started over in Europe, may be wrong though.

So people actually eat hop shoots?

Do a search for "hop shoots" on twitter and a bunch will come up. Pretty big in the UK. Just pile the compost really deep and you'll have tons of 8 inch long, tender, white young shoots. Perfect for Spring salads!

I was searching around for information on cutting back bines early in the season and found this forum. I'm in Georgia and have been told that we need to cut back until late May so that the plant will reach it's height at the Summer Solstice. The last post was several years ago....does anyone have updated information. I didn't cut the plants back this year and had a huge yield on Cascade and Chinook (second year plants).

BettyBoo said:

I was searching around for information on cutting back bines early in the season and found this forum. I'm in Georgia and have been told that we need to cut back until late May so that the plant will reach it's height at the Summer Solstice. The last post was several years ago....does anyone have updated information. I didn't cut the plants back this year and had a huge yield on Cascade and Chinook (second year plants).

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Hi Betty

I would say that post #19 is the most informative. It really depends on the size of your operation. It seems that commercial growers cut things back so as to synchronise harvest time across all of their plants. If you're just growing them in your back garden, like me, then this probably won't be so much of an issue. I certainly just pick them by hand when I think they're ready, but I only have three plants.

Hope this helps

I found this on Fresh hops.
https://freshops.com/hop-growing/hop-gardening#pruning

PRUNING

Do not prune baby hops, let everything grow. When the young vines are about 1 foot long in more mature hops, 3-4 vines are trained clockwise per string which has been staked to the hill. It is common to run 2-3 strings per hill. Remaining weaker vine should be cut off at the ground so more energy can be focused to the trained vines. Hops mainly grow vertically, but lateral sidearms extend from the main vine and produce flowers. The main concern is to support the vines and prevent sidearms from tangling. Most cones are produced on the upper part of the plant.

In July, the lowest 4 feet of foliage and lateral branches can be removed to aid in air circulation and reduce disease development. The removal of lower leaves (stripping) must be done carefully to avoid breaking or kinking the main stem. In August allow additional bottom growth to remain to promote hardiness of the crown and the plant vigor for next year.

At the end of the season you can bury healthy bottom vines for propagating new plants the next spring. Simply bury the vines in a shallow trench and mark their location. In spring dig them up and cut them into pieces about 4 inches long. Make sure each new cutting has an eye or bud.

I know it isn't a definite answer, but it really just depends. This would be for 2-3 year old hops and older. I grow 16 different varieties and some I cut back and some I don't. Hops are traditionally grown between the 55th and 35th parallel. Outside those latitudes, things will change. Typically you want your hops to flower around June 21st. If you are in warm climates, this would spell disaster to cut you hops back sometime in May. Northern ranges benefit by delaying growth. You really need to keep accurate records. Keep records on what date your hops emerge, the weather, when they flower and when your cones were mature enough to harvest. This year my hops are early and I will take that into consideration. If it frosts late, I'll lose all the initial growth. My German varieties and a few others don't do well by cutting back, so I only trim the bull shoots and train. My cascade, centennial, Williamette, nugget and galena, I cut the first shoots back when they are around a foot or so. My Columbus and Chinook I cut back twice, the last time in the middle of May and they still go wild. Like I said, it depends on your area and your varieties. Good luck!

Do not prune baby hops, let everything grow.

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That can work for the first couple of seasons, but by the third spring a healthy crown will send up literally a hundred shoots or more. Allowing that mass to waste energy for a foot of length is most definitely not the productive way to go...

Cheers!

Update from what I've gathered to improve your yield.

It is all in timing. Basically you want to start hitting the top of the trellis at the beginning of July or so. You don't want the plant to start flowering too early because the flowers dry out/stop growing in the heat of the summer. That may mean multiple trimmings in April to ensure proper timing. So training starts late April through May.

I also heard today that the first growth is from the top of the rhizome (or out of the ground). These bines grow leaves further apart, meaning less energy for flower production later. The 2nd growth comes from underneath and grows leaves closer together which promotes a better yield.

brewcat said:

Update from what I've gathered to improve your yield.

It is all in timing. Basically you want to start hitting the top of the trellis at the beginning of July or so. You don't want the plant to start flowering too early because the flowers dry out/stop growing in the heat of the summer. That may mean multiple trimmings in April to ensure proper timing. So training starts late April through May.

I also heard today that the first growth is from the top of the rhizome (or out of the ground). These bines grow leaves further apart, meaning less energy for flower production later. The 2nd growth comes from underneath and grows leaves closer together which promotes a better yield.

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Right on! Here's a link that explains what you mentioned a little more in detail. Jason is part of the company that brought hops like Citra, Mosaic etc to the market: http://www.uvm.edu/extension/cropsoil/wp-content/uploads/jason-perrault-transcript.pdf

B-Hoppy said:

Right on! Here's a link that explains what you mentioned a little more in detail. Jason is part of the company that brought hops like Citra, Mosaic etc to the market: http://www.uvm.edu/extension/cropsoil/wp-content/uploads/jason-perrault-transcript.pdf

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I need to go back and read that. A lot of good info.

A couple things I gathered:
Basically trimming is timing & variety dependent. The trimming does two things: provides a more controlled 2nd growth and cuts off aerial buds which house powdery mildew.

I need to study day length/latitude and maturation of varieties. I know I'll cut back my Cascades in the next week or so. Not really sure on my Magnum. Magnum is late maturing, so later.

Here is a pretty good article on training dates:
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/training_hops

I'll have to take notes this year.

I have to say that it is quite surprising how much crap was posted in response to this topic. This is a topic discussed frequently in many research articles and guides published by Universities/Extension offices.

Most information points to the practice of "crowning" or "scratching" being used as a control for downy mildew infection which may overwinter in crowns and is sometimes difficult to detect. There may be some other benefits, like increased lateral growth, but the primary reason for these techniques is disease control. Downy mildew will easily destroy an entire crop yield at a commercial farm.

http://www.uvm.edu/extension/cropsoil/wp-content/uploads/DownyMildew.pdf
It's all good info but start on page 4-5 to cover the cultural/mechanical controls.

P.S. Yes, Brewcat & B-Hoppy have already hit on this. I was just surprised by all the other comments that came before.

bmcgarry said:

[...]I was just surprised by all the other comments that came before.

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Welcome to HBT...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

Welcome to HBT...

Cheers!

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Thanks!

The reason for trimming the first shoots is that the first ones to break ground are often bull shoots which grow fast but tend to be hollow inside and do not hold up well to abuse from wind, etc. Additionally trimming the early shoots is done to put off the growing season so that your hops are ready at the appropriate time of year.

I did not cut mine back this year, and some are over 10' tall. I would guess it is to late to cut them back know?