Manifold / False bottom

as i'm getting close to finishing up my orders/purchases for my AG setup, i am looking to making/buying a manifold of some sort for my 10gal igloo cooler.. i'm planning on doing batch sparging (at least for the foreseeable future) and had heard that a braid/manifold is a better setup than a FB (i forget where) so i am mostly debating between a SS braid or somesort of homemade mainifold..

i know its been talked to death but for this type of cooler do many of you have strong preferences on what to use for batch sparging? i kinda like the cpvc design on jmo88's MT:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/manifold-10-gal-round-mash-tun-175247/

though i wasn't sure if it was really worth the effort as opposed to a nice heavy duty bazooka screen.. thoughts on your experieces?

I first used a braid and tossed it after about 5 batches. It just wasn't consistent. I made a copper manifold and am going to keep it.

I've been using and really my perforated stainless false bottoms http://www.midwestsupplies.com/12-stainless-steel-false-bottom.html. Connect it to the barb fitting on your bulkhead with a piece of high-temp silicon and you're good to go.

I use the manifold in my MLT and that FB in my kettle. I often think that I could swap the 2 and not change a thing in the final beer.

BendBrewer said:

I first used a braid and tossed it after about 5 batches. It just wasn't consistent. I made a copper manifold and am going to keep it.

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What wasn't consistent about it?

RE: JMO's design - The bend in that CPVC is key, otherwise it will be difficult to get the rest of the manifold to lay flat.

brettwasbtd said:

What wasn't consistent about it?

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The efficiency.

Those braids stretch and crush and float and sink. The bazooka screens might be a little better than the braid but you can't really suck your MLT dry with them.

Most people don't care though and almost always go with a braid or screen at first. Look at most peoples' systems that have been doing it awhile though and you'll see false bottoms and manifolds.

It just depends on how many times you want to redo something.

any pros/cons to certain materials.. i could make a manifold out of copper or cpvc, though i think the cpvc with slits would hold up better in the long just for it still looking like new and cleaning up better..

bendbrewer, i can see how you would maybe get a better suck out of the bottom with a manifold with only holes on the bottom for a better suction..

gridlocked, i love your avatar.. my daughter is 2 1/2 so she may be a little big for that even on the ground.. though she may fit nicely in my keggle for a photo op

This is good to read. I'm building an MLT this week and now I'm not sure whether to go with the braid or a false bottom. I'm still leaning towards the braid (due to monetary issues) and I'm fine with trying it out and seeing for myself what the capabilities are.

though i think the cpvc with slits would hold up better in the long just for it still looking like new and cleaning up better..

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The copper looks brand spanking new and polished after the mash. Dump the grains, rinse with hot water and you are done. I didn't solder the pieces together. I assemble it every time. It's a piece of cake. But I don't see why a cpvc one wouldn't be just as simple and effective.

MeatyPortion said:

This is good to read. I'm building an MLT this week and now I'm not sure whether to go with the braid or a false bottom. I'm still leaning towards the braid (due to monetary issues) and I'm fine with trying it out and seeing for myself what the capabilities are.

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Don't forget about the manifold option. That's about the same price as a braid or Bazooka screen.

the more i've been reading the more i'm leaning towards the cpvc.. i'm pretty handy with a dremel so i can get some finely tuned slits on the bottom to pick up as much as possible.. glad i'm waiting until it gets warmer here to brew my first AG outside, at least it is giving me some projects to do in the meantime

BendBrewer said:

The efficiency.

Those braids stretch and crush and float and sink. The bazooka screens might be a little better than the braid but you can't really suck your MLT dry with them.

Most people don't care though and almost always go with a braid or screen at first. Look at most peoples' systems that have been doing it awhile though and you'll see false bottoms and manifolds.

It just depends on how many times you want to redo something.

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I see. I have a manifold in my large 52 qt coleman extreme and find it works well. I just got a 3 gallon rubbermaid round beverage cooler for 2.5 gallon batches and I used a veggie steamer insert and a bag and got poor efficiency (65%) compared to usual (75%-78%). I decided to go the braid route and set that up this past weekend. I will probably brew with it around presidents day weekend, so I can see if efficiency is better than the steamer.

I'm think a large factor in efficiency is the volume you cant get out? It looks like I leave about 8 ounces with the braid (and tipping my mash tun).

BendBrewer said:

Don't forget about the manifold option. That's about the same price as a braid or Bazooka screen.

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ya, I actually spent more my braid then I did for the CPVC manifold, given that the part outside of the cooler are the same cost for each. Got a 10 ft length of CPVC for like $3 or $4 and the elbows/connectors for 30 cents a piece. Braid was $5 then I got two different barbs and an end cap... that all was like another $8

I am looking into the cpvc myself, I went to 8 gallon batches and the stainless braid just collapses resulting in stuck sparges for me. I tried it 3x and it gets stuck every time, I have heard good things about a manifold, so that is what I will be going to next.

BendBrewer said:

Don't forget about the manifold option. That's about the same price as a braid or Bazooka screen.

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Good point.

Manifold over braid!!! and copper over pvc!!!!

This is nothing but personal preference of course lol. I have used the braid, it works fine. I've build several manifolds and design or shape isn't that critical when it comes to efficiency (assuming you are batch sparging). Manifold doesn't get better efficiency than braid or vice versa despite what you might think. If you batch sparging then your braid/manifold is nothing more than an over rated filter. I say "over rated" because its your grain bed that should actually be doing the filtering. The braid or manifold is more of less just there to hold back the husks and chunks.

Basically, as long as you aren't getting stuck sparges be happy and use whatever works for you.

yeast_infection said:

Manifold doesn't get better efficiency than braid or vice versa despite what you might think. If you batch sparging then your braid/manifold is nothing more than an over rated filter.

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My only concern is that say the bottom half inch of your mash tun is dead space, your braid can't extract that half inch of wort. When sparging, the sugars are running to the bottom. So if you can't get that last 1/2 inch, I would think you are unable to extract that concentration of sugars on the bottom? The manifold could provide better efficiency if it could decrease that dead space and extract that concentration. I mainly noticed that last batch when I used the grain bag and veggie steamer. When I cleaned out the tun, I noticed that 1/2 " was A LOT darker than my final runnings. I definitely should have tipped my tun! I will definitely try to update things here after my next batch with tipping!

Yeah, I hear ya on the dead space..... It bugged me as well which was part of the reason I built the manifold awhile back. Despite looking cool as well, I also like the fact that you can stir vigorously without worrying about disfiguring your braid.

I still question how many efficiency points that inch or half inch can really suck out of your efficiency number, especially if you double batch.

I've got a buddy who has always used the braid. Probably 30+ batches. He consistently beats me by a few points. Consistently gets 80%-82%. The grain mill was the difference maker here.

I am at 78%-80% with the manifold. I plan everything for 78% and once and awhile hit a point or two higher. It's consistent enough for me though.

oooh.. now i like that one of yeast infection's... i did notice with copper the fittings are more flush so you get a tighter seal to the bottom of the MLT.. i know we're talking about a millimeter or two, but can't hurt.. if the copper does clean up that well then i think i'm now leaning in that direction.. good thing i'm not allowed to go shopping until my next paycheck in a week

yeast_infection - do you have a parts list / diagram for your awesome looking manifold?

I have been using a copper manifold since 2001 and absolutely love it. I use copper because it is a mineral used by yeast. So you're not only lautering and sparging, you are feeding your yeast.

yeast_infection said:

Manifold over braid!!! and copper over pvc!!!!

Basically, as long as you aren't getting stuck sparges be happy and use whatever works for you.

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I've been converted!

A few questions though:
1. Why square for round cooler?
2. How did you make such precise holes and cuts?
3. Why not make holes and slits in the elbows as well?

It looks like he used a dremel and drill. I know I don't have the patience nor the coordination to make it that neat. The square shape is fine for a circular coolers.

rudu81 said:

I've been converted!

A few questions though:
1. Why square for round cooler?
2. How did you make such precise holes and cuts?
3. Why not make holes and slits in the elbows as well?

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1.) Why Square? There is really no reason for it to be square. I just like that it fits perfectly and doesn't move around at all. There is about a quarter inch clearance from the 90 degree elbows and the wall of the cooler so it holds itself in place. Also, it's very rigid and durable. The whole thing breaks down and is easy to clean. Only select joints are soldered in place.

2.) The slits were done with a dremel. Originally i just had the slits and no holes. I brewed two batches with only the slits and bordered on slow/stuck sparge. Thats when I added the however many hundreds of holes (yes I got a little carried away......). After adding the holes I can run full speed without getting stuck. I just drilled the holes by hand with a cordless drill eyeballing placement. Yes, it took a lot of patience and about 3 hours lol.

3.) you could slit or drill the elbows. I just never did. My hands were tired after a few hours of drilling.

Side note - that manifold looks new but has been used for nearly 30-40 batches. Every time you pull it out it looks new and shiny.

1. It's hard to distinguish size/depth with the curved wall (sort of like a backdrop), but I see how it works well. I'm thinking about going with 45's and a bunch of T's to get some the area covered. I take it that it's better to not solder the entire thing?

2. Many props for the doing by eye. Not sure I could, but i suppose I'll have to give it a shot to try and avoid a stuck sparge.

3. Will probably drill/slot elbows to help avoid getting stuck.

Thanks for the info!!

So not trying to imply that this is the only or best design but since the idea from your original post was very similar to the design I made and have been using for the past year or two I figured I'd post any info I could to help/give you ideas.

Here it is disassembled just to show which joints I soldered and which I left unsoldered for disassembly:



It works well and I've been using it for a couple years and can't think of anything I would change about the design. This has to mean somthing coming from the guy OCD enough to spend three hours drilling holes lol.

that picture helps.. i love the design, seems simple enough to get the job done.. do you just use silicone tubing to connect it to your valve connection? does inserting and removing it on that hose barb affect the tubing much over time?

Yeah, there is about a 2.5" piece of silicone tubing (the old braided tubing pictured has since been discarded for the high temp silicone) that connects the manifold barb to the barb on the inside of the ball valve assembly. I had experimented with trying to hard plumb this with a compression fitting and rigid copper but getting it all to line up was just a headache so i went with the little piece of silicone connector.

I had to replace the 2" piece of silicone once but only because a mouse decided to build a house in my tun and chewed it up lol. It doesn't show any wear and tear from connecting and disconnecting after every brew that I have noticed.

I use a Blkmn FB in a stock pot.
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=41254&title=falsebottom1&cat=500

what size drill bit did you use?

I just made a cpvc manifold for my new mlt. I saw that the copper does sit considerably closer to the bottom. was considerinc putting the sandpapaer drum on my dremel and shaving a bit off all the joints so they sit lower.

crackhead7 said:

what size drill bit did you use?

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I'm going to guess that he used a 1/16".

Alright I realize this thread is old.. but hopefully someones watching and I can get an answer...

I went to start planning my own homemade manifold, and I am having an issue finding the "distribution block" piece ( thats what someone earlier called it). I am also having issues finding a fitting with a barb end of 5/16" ( air line)
anyone have any idea where I can find these ( my local Home Depot and Harbor Freight didnt have them.

thanks!

soccerRef said:

Alright I realize this thread is old.. but hopefully someones watching and I can get an answer...

I went to start planning my own homemade manifold, and I am having an issue finding the "distribution block" piece ( thats what someone earlier called it). I am also having issues finding a fitting with a barb end of 5/16" ( air line)
anyone have any idea where I can find these ( my local Home Depot and Harbor Freight didnt have them.

thanks!

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Are you trying to do a braid, cpvpc or copper manifold?

brettwasbtd said:

Are you trying to do a braid, cpvpc or copper manifold?

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I am trying to build a manifold to handle my C02, in the early replys people posted pictures that they call distrubution blocks, I found them online and attached a photo.

soccerRef said:

I am trying to build a manifold to handle my C02, in the early replys people posted pictures that they call distrubution blocks, I found them online and attached a photo.

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Ah, ok...this makes more sense now that you mention CO2...this thread was for all grain mash manifolds which is why i was confused

brettwasbtd said:

Ah, ok...this makes more sense now that you mention CO2...this thread was for all grain mash manifolds which is why i was confused

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You know what.. I was reading multiple threads in multiple windows last night, and posted in the wrong one ! my mistake...I will find the correct thread and place my question there! thanks for point that out!

soccerRef said:

You know what.. I was reading multiple threads in multiple windows last night, and posted in the wrong one ! my mistake...I will find the correct thread and place my question there! thanks for point that out!

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Hey did you check any of the vendors from this site like keg connection? I just looked at their site and for the price of their distributers, i cant see you making one much cheaper.

tchuklobrau said:

Hey did you check any of the vendors from this site like keg connection? I just looked at their site and for the price of their distributers, i cant see you making one much cheaper.

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I have, and thats why I plan on building one. I need a 4-1 splitter, to run 4 kegs. the lowest I have seen is $50.xx + shipping if you are including the barbs to get to the actual gas line... I actually decided to skip the block idea, and build a modular manifold using fittings and nipples so in the future I can easily expand on the manifold if needed. I can get the parts at the local hardware store ( and actually put a stronger cutoff valve) for approx $30 and less than 30 min of my time... if I could find the blocks people were using previously for 1.99, I could have done the design for about $20...

I can understand why they are more expensive at these places, someone has to put it together, and they need to stand by and guarantee that it works, and if it fails they need to replace etc.. just like everything else

To people who have built a copper manifold:


Will 5' of copper be enough to build a round (ish) one for my 10 gal mash run cooler? I'd hate to over spend on copper. I'll be getting some 45's and T's for connecting so I don't think I should need too much for length. I also have a dremel already to make the cuts so it should go fairly smooth.