Single infusion mash vs. single infusion mash w/"mash out"

What does "mash out" mean? Is that the same as sparging?

Mashing out is raising the mash to ~ 168 degrees. This is done by adding direct heat or adding some (near) boiling water to the mash. The purpose is to stop the enzymatic activity and make the mash less viscous, allowing the sugars to flow more easily with the sparge water.

If you're batch sparging, then a mash out may be over-kill.

Cheers!

Mash out is where you stop the conversion process. The mash is raised to a temperature that denatures the enzymes that convert starches to sugar. This it done at a temperature of about 170 degrees F.
I think it is done as a consistency thing so each batch gets the exact amount of mash time.
I'm not sure how important it is to the home brewer. I'm betting there are quite a few brewers who skip this step.

So let's say I have an amount of grain, and I pour in water at 170 degrees, and after stirring, the mash holds at 152 (this is all hypothetical). I let that sit for an hour, and then after a few run-offs to let it clear, I drain that water into the brew kettle. I then heat up some sparge water and pour that into the mash tun, stir, and immediately run it off, right? Should my sparge water also be 170 degrees, or should it be in the 152-degree range?

170 - 175. Some people use higher temps, but I think that risks some tannin extraction. 152 isn't hot enough.

Also, what's a good starting assumption for efficiency? I have no clue what to expect from my setup, so I'd rather lowball it if anything (hey, what's a few extra gravity points, right?).

Probably in the 65% range. If you're higher than that, it's all good. Once you get comfortable with the process, then you can worry about tweaking everything to try and achieve better efficiency.

I think you got it right.Your sparge water should be about 170-180 when you pour it in.I batch sparge and mashout.I read about it somewhere here on the forum and just started doing it in an effort to increase my effic.,which wasn't very good at that time(first few AG batches).I get good effic,near 80,these days so i'll continue to do it although i suspect that grinding finer was the biggest factor in getting better #'s.
Cheers

I batch sparge and do a mash out procedure as well. I usually will introduce 170F sparge water into the mash tun and then let it sit for 15 minutes, stirring every 5 minutes. Then I begin run off, stirring almost constantly to keep the mash loose. I've been managing mid to high 70's for my efficiency so it seems to be working.

bradsul said:

I batch sparge and do a mash out procedure as well. I usually will introduce 170F sparge water into the mash tun and then let it sit for 15 minutes, stirring every 5 minutes. Then I begin run off, stirring almost constantly to keep the mash loose. I've been managing mid to high 70's for my efficiency so it seems to be working.

Click to expand...

You stir while running off? Don't you have problems with grain husks getting into the wort?

Ok, one more question: my brew software wants to know my mash tun thermal mass. Everywhere on the web says that a good starting assumption is 0.30, but my software has the thermal mass in pounds and ounces. What is the 0.30, so that I can convert it? Is it 0.30 kg?

bradsul said:

I batch sparge and do a mash out procedure as well. I usually will introduce 170F sparge water into the mash tun and then let it sit for 15 minutes, stirring every 5 minutes. Then I begin run off, stirring almost constantly to keep the mash loose. I've been managing mid to high 70's for my efficiency so it seems to be working.

Click to expand...

Wait, how long should you let your mash sit once you pour in the strike water and stir? I've been reading an hour or so.

the_bird said:

You stir while running off? Don't you have problems with grain husks getting into the wort?

Click to expand...

I use dual braided stainless lines for my manifold and have never had a problem.

Edit: That's not entirely true, I once crushed one of the stainless braids with my mash paddle without realizing. That was messy.

ayrton said:

Wait, how long should you let your mash sit once you pour in the strike water and stir? I've been reading an hour or so.

Click to expand...

I was speaking only of my mash out / sparging procedure. The actual conversion rest I usually use 60 minutes or 90 minutes depending on what the recipe in question suggests.

Brad

Lil' Sparky said:

The purpose is to stop the enzymatic activity

Click to expand...

That's what I thought to. But a techical brewing book I have, states that the higher temp of the mash out causes the alpha amylase to work quickly enough that it can easily convert any roge starch that might be released during lautering. Alpha amylase isn't deactivated until 175 F and the ideal mas-out temp is listed as 169.

But I don't worry about this to much. Though I'm using the mash-out step I oftentimes end up to low and don't care much except for taking notes.

Kai

Mashing out, I get the theory but can any one explain why it's required. I know to stop enzyme activity yes.
But think about it! 5minutes later the wort's in the kettle and the temperature is raised. Surely that negates the need for a mash out?
If 5 minutes is critical then mash or sparge for 5 minutes less.

Or have I missed something?

ayrton said:

Ok, one more question: my brew software wants to know my mash tun thermal mass. Everywhere on the web says that a good starting assumption is 0.30, but my software has the thermal mass in pounds and ounces. What is the 0.30, so that I can convert it? Is it 0.30 kg?

Click to expand...

The way I deal with this is use it as a fudge factor I adjust it until the calculations matches my actual results. All the other inputs are actuals. i.e grain temp, mash tun temp, Strike temp, mash temp.

orfy said:

Mashing out, I get the theory but can any one explain why it's required. I know to stop enzyme activity yes.
But think about it! 5minutes later the wort's in the kettle and the temperature is raised. Surely that negates the need for a mash out?
If 5 minutes is critical then mash or sparge for 5 minutes less.

Or have I missed something?

Click to expand...

You're assuming batch sparging. If you fly sparge, you're talking about 30-60 minutes, though. The other big reason is that it makes it easier to get the sugars out.

If you are sparging at 170-175 deg c there is no need to mash out, particularly if you are boiling straight after the mash, that soon halts further enzyme activity.

Starch is never a problem with modern well modified malts, conversion is acheived in as little as 20 mins, longer mash periods are required however in order that the beta amylase can convert some of the dextrinous sugars to maltose and produce a balance wort.

DAAB said:

If you are sparging at 170-175 deg c there is no need to mash out, particularly if you are boiling straight after the mash, that soon halts further enzyme activity.
.

Click to expand...

Mashing out establishes the wort profile, dextrins, etc. but as was mentioned, most brewers when doing one don't do it properly. It isn't needed when batch sparging as the wort is being boiled past the temp needed to stop enzyme activity in a short time.
Fly sparging will benifit more from mashing out IMO due to the time involved, but again, most brewers don't hold the required temps for a long enough time for it to really matter.

I mash out simply by adding about a gallon of near boiling water at the end of the mash. (With about 10 lbs grain and 2 1/2 gallons water for the mash, this raises the temperature from 155 to 168 - 170.) I stir well and leave it for 10 minutes to allow the temperature to stabilize and then vorlauf about 1 gallon and fly sparge for about 90 minutes, keeping the temperature in the MLT at 168 - 170.
Since I added the mash out, my efficiency increased from about 75% to 85%, and my brews are noticeably more consistent flavor-wise.

-a.

ajf said:

I mash out simply by adding about a gallon of near boiling water at the end of the mash. (With about 10 lbs grain and 2 1/2 gallons water for the mash, this raises the temperature from 155 to 168 - 170.) I stir well and leave it for 10 minutes to allow the temperature to stabilize and then vorlauf about 1 gallon and fly sparge for about 90 minutes, keeping the temperature in the MLT at 168 - 170.
Since I added the mash out, my efficiency increased from about 75% to 85%, and my brews are noticeably more consistent flavor-wise.

-a.

Click to expand...

I fly sparge and have been having problems with my beers turning out very dry when I do not want them to, even when mashing around 155 +. I use a 10 gallon igloo cooler for my mash tun so I don't really have much of a problem maintaining mash temperature. I'd like to do a mashout infusion but I'm worried that adding near boiling water is going to extract too many tannins and give my beer some astringency. Is this going to be a problem or am I worrying too much?

So do you do the "mash out" process (ie, add the near boiling water) to the mash BEFORE you drain the first runnings?

What then, add the sparge water to get the rest of the required volume?

astropunk said:

So do you do the "mash out" process (ie, add the near boiling water) to the mash BEFORE you drain the first runnings?

What then, add the sparge water to get the rest of the required volume?

Click to expand...

Yes and yes. Below is how I do a batch sparge.

Mash- Add 170f water and grain to MT for 154 mash, stir and sit for 60 min, etc.

Mash Out- Add boiling water* to mash, stir. Hold for 10 minutes. *This raises the mash temp close to 168. (I'm at a high elevation)

Drain MT- Vorlauf, drain runnings from MT

Sparge- Add 168f water, stir, vorlauf and drain for boil volume.

I usually get around 80% mash efficiency, using my 10 gallon cooler and a copper manifold.

Clintjl said:

I fly sparge and have been having problems with my beers turning out very dry when I do not want them to, even when mashing around 155 +. I use a 10 gallon igloo cooler for my mash tun so I don't really have much of a problem maintaining mash temperature. I'd like to do a mashout infusion but I'm worried that adding near boiling water is going to extract too many tannins and give my beer some astringency. Is this going to be a problem or am I worrying too much?

Click to expand...

I've had excessive tannin extraction as a result of over sparging. I think you could also get it from using too much mash out water and raising the temperature to over 170. I've never had a problem with doing a mash out (where I raise the grain bed temperature to 165 - 168), and stopping the sparge when the gravity runnings drop to 1.010.

[EDIT] I forgot about the other thing that has caused excessive tannin extractions, and that is the mash pH. Before I started adding salts to reduce the pH (which was before I started doing a mash out), I did get tannins (and poor efficiency). Then I started using gypsum, which both improved the efficiency and the tannin problem. I once made the mistake of adding chalk instead of gypsum, and that brew was rather unpleasant. [/EDIT]

-a.

ajf said:

I mash out simply by adding about a gallon of near boiling water at the end of the mash. (With about 10 lbs grain and 2 1/2 gallons water for the mash, this raises the temperature from 155 to 168 - 170.) I stir well and leave it for 10 minutes to allow the temperature to stabilize and then vorlauf about 1 gallon and fly sparge for about 90 minutes, keeping the temperature in the MLT at 168 - 170.
Since I added the mash out, my efficiency increased from about 75% to 85%, and my brews are noticeably more consistent flavor-wise.

-a.

Click to expand...

sorry to bring up an older then dirt post. but my system allows me to control my mash out process really tightly as far as temps go by Driving a pid with another pid... I recently was wondering how hot I could get the wort flowing through the rims tube and dumping back on top of the grain bed to increase the mash bed temp as fast as possible. cause I want to actually get the center to 168F. i was thinking of cqpiing this at 170-172. but do u think I can go higher. Now typing this i realize you stir and I plan not to do that. but I suppose I could.