The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

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Nice Argentina 3 Sweden 1 good first half, second half was just about of keeping the difference and sort of boring. Spain 3 Uruguay 1 man you got to love Iniesta... I couldn´t watch the USA game, a lot of things going on...
 
Tell you what, I'm not happy with the US play (weather sure has a factor as well as not having enough practice on the unit) but the ref has been great and Michael Bradley is such a force
 
England - Brazil was an exciting game, Hart's penalty save on Ronaldinho was unreal. And both goals manufactured by Arsenal players :) Great finish by Lampard.
 
That's on all 3 defenders. Cameron and Howard both pulled off when neither should have and I don't know what Gonzalez was doing. He was lollygagging back. You'd never see someone like John Terry give up on a play like that.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
That's on all 3 defenders. Cameron and Howard both pulled off when neither should have and I don't know what Gonzalez was doing. He was lollygagging back. You'd never see someone like John Terry give up on a play like that.
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I don't disagree with that on the goal. Tentative play all around. But defending has been horrible. Cameron the worst of the offenders. Honduras could have more goals. What are the chances we see Boca in the next starting XI?
 
well overall too much waste in the game. Not enough possession, not enough skill, not enough defense. Only US players I'd say were great were Bradley, Dempsey, and Eddie Johnson. Everyone else screwed up and contributed to the loss or didn't add to the win. Altidore was basically taken out of the game because the US couldn't possess the ball, Fabian Johnson was solid but both goals were setup on his side so I hold that against him a bit, Cameron and Gonzalez get big Fs for me. Chandler bets a C- he improved as the game went on, but got beat a lot on his one on one matchups and he shouldn't be. Jermain Jones did well on his passing but his normal ferocity in defense was missing. Danny Williams didn't do a thing, And none of the subs seemed to do much. Edu was solid sweeping infront of the CBs, but wasn't a difference maker, Sacha stank, Zusi only had a shot to make one play and it was an unfortunate hand ball.

JMO the US needs to either go 4-3-3 if they're gonna keep using so many CMs, or start Zusi and Johnson at LM and RM so they have a better shot. I know Zusi is a midfielder on club but he's done great as a winger for the US. I think you'll see a very different squad from here on out. Obviously I think Klinsmann wishes Cherundolo wasn't hurt. But I see no way you can have Cameron and Gonzalez back there again. Gotta put the captain back there, don't care if he doesn't have it and isn't as athletic as Gonzalez, he's still the best defender on the team when smarts and command comes into play, neither Gonzalez or Cameron is ready for that role yet. Maybe by 2014 they will be, but you have to get there first.

Next match is a 100% win, US cannot afford a draw. because getting more than 1 point @ Mexico and Jamaica won't be easy. I still think the squad is good enough to win the hex or at least to advance with Mexico, but they need a lot of work still. I like that the Young Squad did ok on the road in a hostile environemnt but they need to be better.

Also Landon needs to get his head out of his rear and get back to camp.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
Not enough possession, not enough skill, not enough defense.
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Agreed. We played a style expected for a tough away match. However, defense, and defensive midfield play was woeful. Williams was horrible....Gonzales should take an education from this match. Cameron was the most disappointing in my opinion. Having played high level matches in the BPL he should have the experience not to make the mistakes he made out there today.

Only US players I'd say were great were Bradley, Dempsey, and Eddie Johnson.
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"Great" is not the assessment I would give anyone....but these were the best players on the pitch for USMNT. Bradley was immense...but we need to find someone who can add some presence at DM or else move him back to a deep playmaker role.

...Sacha stank, Zusi only had a shot to make one play and it was an unfortunate hand ball.
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I agree. Sacha was a poor substitute. I will admit that I wanted to see what Zusi could contribute and we got that chance. However, we never had enough posession while he was on the pitch to use him, with the one exception where he handled the first good ball to him and provided a horrible cross with the second (and final).

JMO the US needs to either go 4-3-3 if they're gonna keep using so many CMs, or start Zusi and Johnson at LM and RM so they have a better shot. I know Zusi is a midfielder on club but he's done great as a winger for the US.
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I just don't see a 4-3-3 working for us. We couldn't keep enough posession with the 27 midfielders we had out there tonight. I would rather see a 4-2-3-1 in games like this where we have Bradley partnering at CDM with someone who wants to be a ball winner where Bradley can get forward when the opportunity permits. Then play Dempsey in a CAM or Deep Lying Forward position with Jose up top. Take your pick of wingers. Eddie Johnson did not do too badly on the left but I don't think he used his pace enough. Hell....even putting Dolo in at FB and moving Chandler up to play winger could have been something to see during friendlies.

I think you'll see a very different squad from here on out. Obviously I think Klinsmann wishes Cherundolo wasn't hurt. But I see no way you can have Cameron and Gonzalez back there again. Gotta put the captain back there, don't care if he doesn't have it and isn't as athletic as Gonzalez, he's still the best defender on the team when smarts and command comes into play, neither Gonzalez or Cameron is ready for that role yet. Maybe by 2014 they will be, but you have to get there first.
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I agree....but I would give Gonzales a start along side Boca.

I still think the squad is good enough to win the hex or at least to advance with Mexico, but they need a lot of work still. I like that the Young Squad did ok on the road in a hostile environemnt but they need to be better.
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Unfortunately, it was the youth in the "young squad" that disappointed. I still have faith in them....the environment is tough and the grass is like the rough at TPC Sawgrass. However, we should at least draw this match if we defend responsibly...and we didn't.

Also Landon needs to get his head out of his rear and get back to camp.
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We do miss Landon. He has been the face of the team for a long time and I cannot fault him with the amount of matches he has played. However, he does need to man-up for his country. I know if I had 1/100th of his skill and were in a position to do so I would not miss an opportunity with the national team. But I digress....it's easy to be a Monday morning QB.
 
ThickHead said:
We do miss Landon. He has been the face of the team for a long time and I cannot fault him with the amount of matches he has played. However, he does need to man-up for his country. I know if I had 1/100th of his skill and were in a position to do so I would not miss an opportunity with the national team. But I digress....it's easy to be a Monday morning QB.
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I think Landon will be back but he needs to be careful, if he teases too much Landon will not start. He's got one more shot at World Cup glory, if he doesn't take it, he'll lose some luster on his career. While I doubt he'd have made a huge difference today, you never know, with all the corners maybe he delivers one or 2 into the right spot.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
I think Landon will be back but he needs to be careful, if he teases too much Landon will not start. He's got one more shot at World Cup glory, if he doesn't take it, he'll lose some luster on his career. While I doubt he'd have made a huge difference today, you never know, with all the corners maybe he delivers one or 2 into the right spot.
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His pace and delivery from both set-pieces and open-play was missed. I feel that he would have made quite a difference in the attacking-third. I hope we get a chance to see.
 
Probably, but Klinsmann is all about effort and practice. Landon is great though I hope that he comes back.

I think that we're gonna do much better in the second leg of the hex, by then I think Landon will be playing, hopefully we'll be relatively healthy, maybe a guy like Holden will be in play, who can play then on the wing or in the attacking middle letting Bradley lie deep and be a playmaker. There's a lot of things that I think can go right for us in the upcoming months.
 
Had to miss this one due to work. But as far as the defensive line... they had 48hrs to get a groove going. Players will learn from this, especially Gonzilla having his first cap (CALLED IT!) in a crazy situation/location.
 
Klinsey defends Gonzo and the rest of the fullbacks.

""We believe that Omar is ready for the next step at the international level,and the only way you find that out is to give him a chance and throw him the cold water,” said Klinsmann following the game. “There will always be moments when there’s miscommunication,but the backline is not the reason we lost that game.”"

http://mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/02/06/klinsmann-quick-defend-gonzalez-young-us-backline
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
I don't think Gonzalez is the only problem, there was no leadership in the back line.
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I think either Cameron or Gonzalez will be forced into the leader role in the next match or two due to necessity and pressure to control the Hex. And I definitely believe they are both up to it... they're just still green on the international level, especially against CONCACAF opponents. It used to be that the majority of the Caribbean and Central American teams only had insane home field advantage on their sides... but a lot of those minnows have grown into big-boy fish.

And if you look at the line-ups it seems that a lot of the improvements have come from MLSers...
 
I don't know, I just think they'll pair Boca with Gonzalez next match. Cameron isn't helped because he's not getting time at his club as a CB. Maybe the US should have a CDM and that be Cameron.

Maybe it could work out if we did a 4-2-3-1 in kind of a diamond so it looked like
Altidore

Dempsey
Jomes Donovan (If still crying Zusi or Johnson can handle this)

Bradley
Cameron
Johnson/Chandler Boca Gonzalez Cherundolo

Or if you want to do it but ditch Cameron sub in Johnson to LM and put Jones at CDM with Bradley have them yoyo for rest so one attacks the other holds.

What I want in a perfect world is Holden is back to his old awesome self. If that happens, we have a ton more flexibility since he can play any midfield role and would give us some skill from set pieces. Then we have Holden at LM, Landon at RM, Bradley and Jones in the middle and we have 4 MF who can possess the ball dribble, pass, etc. My idea of perfection.
 
Yes, the game was disappointing last night, but in my opinion, that was probably our toughest away test, even more-so than the azteca date.
We lost to Costa Rica away early in the 2010 qualifying and still finished first in the hex.
Let's hope this was an anomoly, and we take care of business in March.
 
Wow somehow my app posted this message in the wrong thread.... sorry for diverging from the soccer topic at hand

ForumRunner_20130207_064430.jpg
 
Does anyone else really wish some of our players would get collusive (is that a word?) on a teams arse and try to get some US players on a bum EPL squad? Like I'd love if Gonzalez and Cameron had time to hone their craft and build chemistry. But it seems like the US players almost always get scattered to the wind unless they play MLS.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
Does anyone else really wish some of our players would get collusive (is that a word?) on a teams arse and try to get some US players on a bum EPL squad? Like I'd love if Gonzalez and Cameron had time to hone their craft and build chemistry. But it seems like the US players almost always get scattered to the wind unless they play MLS.
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Its an intersting point, for sure.
Definately one of the reasons I feel that Spain has dominated for so many years. Most of their players come from Madrid or Barca.

In the case of the US players, I think I would rather them get spread out around Europe. At least it gives them a chance to develop in the most competetive environment possible. The big problem with US players is that they don't hit the peak of their career until their bodies are starting the decline. 28-30 years old is not the time to start playing your best soccer.

Player for player, we are 4 years behind any player brought up in Europe. I blame this on many factors, mainly the poor quality of NCAA soccer programs, but it all falls back on a lack of interest in the sport in this country.
 
US has been working on and hopefully ina few years we'll see the results of the young guys coming through. Klinsmann overall is really doing things a lot like he did in Germany. For the Krauts he got rid of many of the old standbys in favor of younger hungrier players and they wound up surprising many at WC 2006, and the changes Klinsmann made on the youth level paid dividends as guys like Thomas Muller, Toni Kroos, Mats Hummels, Manuel Neuer, Mesut Ozil, etc. all became much better players. Now I don't think they US has as fast of a turnaround as Germany because the US isn't a soccer nation, but I think if Klinsmann is given his shot we could see a big turnaround in the next decade or so. There's no excuse for us not to be a world power in soccer. No we'll probably never be Brazil, Italy France, or SPain, but we should be in the top 20 of FIFA rankings all the time. Give some American athletes the opportunity to play soccer and you could see great things. There are thousands of guys who're not quite the elite Athlete that it takes to play Basketball or Football on a professional level, but would arguably be one of the best soccer athletes. If we can get more soccer in offseasons for Basketball and Football (Spring Soccer for starters) that gets kids interested in the idea we can see better athletes hit the game and hopefully better results.
 
Grannyknot said:
Player for player, we are 4 years behind any player brought up in Europe. I blame this on many factors, mainly the poor quality of NCAA soccer programs, but it all falls back on a lack of interest in the sport in this country.
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It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)
 
Reno_eNVy said:
It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)
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I think that overall the soccer culture is changing what you have to hope for is the current crop of soccer players plays well enough to keep interest up. That the current adults then have their kids play soccer. I played soccer as a kid, of course also growing up in NJ I'm basically in one of the big 3 soccer state. Obviously like all sports California is number 1. But after that I believe NJ is second or 3rd in soccer players in the pros.

Of the guys and gals currently playing on the USMNT and WNT the following are from NJ

Altidore
Agudelo
Bradley
Tobin heath
Howard
Carli Lloyd
Heather O'Reilly
Rampone

And I probably skipped over a few since I'm just skimming, And yes I know that Altidore and Bradley played ball elsewhere, Altidore in Florida and Bradley at a variety of places, basically roving where his dad coached,

But you also have Guiseppe Rossi who played as a kid in NJ, then moved to Parma to play for their youth club. He's the type of guy we have to watch out for losing. Someone born of dual nationality, who can go international and switch. Hopefulyl we don't run into the same issue with Lederman, I don't believe it will be an issue, he's already capped with u-14 hopefully he caps an official match and becomes cap tied just in case spain tries to naturalize him.

But the lack of a development system like they have in England, Spain, etc. is the real problem. We have youth soccer, but the MLS clubs need to spend their money developing youth academies for kids.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)
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I was being generous with the 4 years :D

Reno, in regards to building the MLS to become a respectable league, what are your thoughts on the quality of scouting amongst the teams?

Obviously, scouting in Europe is a waste of time.
I assume the MLS teams do a pretty good job when it comes to scouting Mexican talent, but it seems like we struggle pretty bad when it comes to South America. Seems like we should be able to grab up the rising stars there and be a bridge between South America and Europe.
 
Our scouts have started venturing out, and the Caribbean and SA have been huge targets as of late. Just look at how many Columbian and Brazilian players we have now.

There also seems to be an upswing in players picked up from the Norse region as well as Africa and eastern Europe / the Baltics. One region that really needs to be tapped more is southeast Asia. There is a ton of talent to be found. Just look at Y.P. Lee, Lee Nguyen(sp?), and the most recent Asian signing, Kobayashi. The Chinese league and the J-League are starting to rise in the ranks of leagues around the world.
 
hoppyhoppyhippo said:
But the lack of a development system like they have in England, Spain, etc. is the real problem. We have youth soccer, but the MLS clubs need to spend their money developing youth academies for kids.
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The Union certainly do. I know this cos I work in it! ;)

Our kids stay with their respective clubs and academies and then come to us for supplemental training once or twice a week. It's a great model cos it gives the players continuity and if their development slows down over a period of time they can stay with their club and then come back in to our setup. Plus it gives kids who have a slow development rate to come in later on.

It's more flexible than the normal setup cos if kids aren't good enough, they just get binned out the setup and then have to go and find a new youth club etc.

**EDIT - YSC Sports in Wayne, PA runs the Union Academy. The facility is used by the first and reserve teams when they need indoor turf space also.
 

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