Exploring "no chill" brewing

Brewing my first no chill Pilsner this month!

Water temp isn't the reason I No-chill.

I use the method because of the flexibility it ads.
You can brew even if the ferm fridge is full.
You can brew even if you haven't prepared a yeast starter.

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Yes, the above and more.

Hey "The Pol", could you please post some pictures of your blowoff-tube set-up with these cubes? I am curious as to how you have rigged this up - do you have the tub shoved into the 11.5 stopper? What size tubing are you using?

Thanks to all for all the replies and information posted on this topic. I have just order 2 of these cubes (the ones The Pol is using) and look forward to shaving some time off of my brew day.

jmsullivan73 said:

Hey "The Pol", could you please post some pictures of your blowoff-tube set-up with these cubes? I am curious as to how you have rigged this up - do you have the tub shoved into the 11.5 stopper? What size tubing are you using?

Thanks to all for all the replies and information posted on this topic. I have just order 2 of these cubes (the ones The Pol is using) and look forward to shaving some time off of my brew day.

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Hey, it is easy. You have a three piece airlock? Take off the cap and the bubbler cap inside. Then, put 3/8" ID hose over the tube inside the base of the airlock. CUT the "crosshairs" off the airlock stem as these can clog with hops and break material.

Voila... works excellent

jmsullivan73 said:

Hey "The Pol", could you please post some pictures of your blowoff-tube set-up with these cubes? I am curious as to how you have rigged this up - do you have the tub shoved into the 11.5 stopper? What size tubing are you using?

Thanks to all for all the replies and information posted on this topic. I have just order 2 of these cubes (the ones The Pol is using) and look forward to shaving some time off of my brew day.

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Here was my hefe earlier this week, I've since switched over to airlocks. But yeah using 11.5 drilled stoppers, I believe the line is 3/8 (I forget) and just shoved into the stopper.

Here's another source for cubes, with cheaper prices than US Plastics.
Bascousa.com - Containers - Closed-Head Plastic Pails & Closures

Caveat- no idea much they charge for shipping/handling.

edit-
prices do not includes caps- which the sell only by the thousand.

Hey Pol and Juvinious,

Thanks for you feedback and photos. I look forward to receiving my new cubes and giving the no-chill method a go.

Pol, when are you planning to brew your Pilsener? I look forward to hearing about this brew.

jmsullivan73 said:

Hey Pol and Juvinious,

Thanks for you feedback and photos. I look forward to receiving my new cubes and giving the no-chill method a go.

Pol, when are you planning to brew your Pilsener? I look forward to hearing about this brew.

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German Pils will be the last week of this Sept. This week (tomorrow) is my Holiday Spiced Ale. I am looking forward to the Pils.

Ok, Im going to try this no chill thing out.

I will on the other hand not be using a cube, just racking the hot wort into my fermentation bucket and pitching the following day.

Here is the recipe I will be using (6 gal) :

8.8 lb Pale Ale Malt
1.1 lb Malted Wheat
0.7 lb Melanoidin Malt
1 oz chocolate 250L

Hop Schedule:
FWH: 33 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2% AA, 7.5 IBU
Bittering addition at 60 Min:15 gr / Hallertauer Perle 10% AA, 17 IBU
Flavouring addtion at 15 Min: 33gr Tettnanger 4.1%, 12 IBU
Aroma Addition at knockout: 15 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2%, 0.5 IBU


Do you think this will make sense?

PS
some sources say that you will only have isometrization above 203°F, I would think the wort would cool below that pretty fast

DerBraumeister said:

Ok, Im going to try this no chill thing out.

I will on the other hand not be using a cube, just racking the hot wort into my fermentation bucket and pitching the following day.

Here is the recipe I will be using (6 gal) :

8.8 lb Pale Ale Malt
1.1 lb Malted Wheat
0.7 lb Melanoidin Malt
1 oz chocolate 250L

Hop Schedule:
FWH: 33 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2% AA, 7.5 IBU
Bittering addition at 60 Min:15 gr / Hallertauer Perle 10% AA, 17 IBU
Flavouring addtion at 15 Min: 33gr Tettnanger 4.1%, 12 IBU
Aroma Addition at knockout: 15 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2%, 0.5 IBU


Do you think this will make sense?

PS
some sources say that you will only have isometrization above 203°F, I would think the wort would cool below that pretty fast

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The resources I have studied show plenty of utilization above 170F. Your aroma addition at flameout, I am afraid, will not yield the aroma you are looking for. Your flavor addition at 15 minutes, will be much more like a 35 minute addition, flavor/bittering... I have also brewed about 6 no chills and this seems to be the case in the real world as well.

It is pretty well documented that in order to successfully no chill a wort, you need to make hop addition adjustments to do so. I dont even own a chiller anymore, so I have been doing my best to get the hop adjustments nailed down.

Personally, I add 20 minutes of utilization to all of my additions to compensate for the increased utilization. I also have ProMash set up to count my FWHs as a 30 minute addition in terms of IBU PERCEPTION.

Just my $.02

This has proven to be a pretty reliable starting point. Keep in mind common sense plays a role here. If the beer does not put the hop flavor up front, FHW is probably not the way to go with an adjustment. Good luck!

OK thanks for your answer, version 2

Here is the recipe I will be using (6 gal) :

8.8 lb Pale Ale Malt
1.1 lb Malted Wheat
0.7 lb Melanoidin Malt
1 oz chocolate 250L

Hop Schedule:
FWH: 33 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2% AA, 5 IBU
Bittering addition at 60 Min:15 gr / Hallertauer Perle 10% AA, 18 IBU
Flavouring addtion at 5 Min: 33gr Tettnanger 4.1%, 11 IBU
Cube Addition: 15 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2%, 1 IBU

Total 34 IBU

Better?

I will also be dryhopping with either Hallertauer Hersbrücker or Tettnanger

DerBraumeister said:

OK thanks for your answer, version 2

Here is the recipe I will be using (6 gal) :

8.8 lb Pale Ale Malt
1.1 lb Malted Wheat
0.7 lb Melanoidin Malt
1 oz chocolate 250L

Hop Schedule:
FWH: 33 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2% AA, 5 IBU
Bittering addition at 60 Min:15 gr / Hallertauer Perle 10% AA, 18 IBU
Flavouring addtion at 5 Min: 33gr Tettnanger 4.1%, 11 IBU
Cube Addition: 15 gr Hallertauer Hersbrücker 2%, 1 IBU

Total 34 IBU

Better?

I will also be dryhopping with either Hallertauer Hersbrücker or Tettnanger

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I dont know about your total IBUs... this is a point of contention with FWHing beers. Personally, and others can chime in... I have found a FWH addition equals about the same # of percievable IBUs as a 30 minute addition.

Dry hopping for aroma will be best with a no chill beer.

This looks better IMHO for a no chill beer than before. Remember though that your flavor addition at 5 minutes will be like a 25 minute addition.

This seems like a pain in the beginning, but really when you use the simple chart, it is easy to modify the additions to match the final outcome of any recipe.

I used the graph, I was going for Tettnanger for flavour and Hallertauer Hersbrücker for Aroma. The 5 minute Tettnanger addition was supposed to be a normal 30 min flavour addition and the FWH addition a 5 or 10 minute aroma one. The bitterness was calculated by adding 20 minutes to the actual boil time (Tinseth).

I used a 20 min. boil time for FWH for an apparent estimation of bitterness.

DerBraumeister said:

I used the graph, I was going for Tettnanger for flavour and Hallertauer Hersbrücker for Aroma. The 5 minute Tettnanger addition was supposed to be a normal 30 min flavour addition and the FWH addition a 5 or 10 minute aroma one. The bitterness was calculated by adding 20 minutes to the actual boil time (Tinseth).

I used a 20 min. boil time for FWH for an apparent estimation of bitterness.

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Sounds good...

I no-chill brewed 10 gallons of Ed's haus pale ale and had a quick question. I moved the five min addition to FWH and the 20 min addition to flame out. I added the flame out hops to the boil kettle when shutting off the flame and waited the typical 15 mins before draining into my 6 gallon HDPE fermentor. My question is did I miss a lot of the flame out hop flavor (20 min bittering) by added to the wort and then draining away from the hops (most of the hops were left in the BK)? Would it have been better to add these hops to the 6 gallon fermentors for my flame out addition (20 min) or should I be fine?

Saw a bunch of the 1/4 barrel sankes at the scrap yard today and was thinking they'd make some great no chill fermenters. Any thoughts?

OK, I did this. I brewed my Holiday Ale from Austin Homebrew and then put it in the bucket to cool down more. My tap water is a cool 86* so it took me three ice baths to cool it down to the mid 90's. Then I let my bucket set in another ice bath overnight and pitched the next day.
Gonna brew up another batch this weekend and might try it again.

ibbones said:

OK, I did this. I brewed my Holiday Ale from Austin Homebrew and then put it in the bucket to cool down more. My tap water is a cool 86* so it took me three ice baths to cool it down to the mid 90's. Then I let my bucket set in another ice bath overnight and pitched the next day.
Gonna brew up another batch this weekend and might try it again.

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The point of no chill is to not use ice baths or chillers. Just put it in your bucket and forget about it for a day or two. You want it to stay hot so that the heat helps sterilize your container.

deathweed said:

The point of no chill is to not use ice baths or chillers. Just put it in your bucket and forget about it for a day or two. You want it to stay hot so that the heat helps sterilize your container.

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Thank you! I wasn't sure how it worked. Do I just pour it right from the boil pot into the bucket after flame-out?

ibbones said:

Thank you! I wasn't sure how it worked. Do I just pour it right from the boil pot into the bucket after flame-out?

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yep, straight from the boil.

I don't know how well the buckets work (After I created this thread the questions and comments took off faster than I could keep up, thank you Pol for keeping up with that), but I use plastic jerry cans or the Winpacks that are listed elsewhere in this thread because you can seal them airtight and they can handle the vacuum pressure that will be created by the cooling wort.

deathweed said:

yep, straight from the boil.

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Deathweed, thanks again. Gonna do it this weekend. Hopefully today. Had the starter ready for three days now and will give it a try.

ibbones said:

Do I just pour it right from the boil pot into the bucket after flame-out?

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Yes, you can transfer right after flame-out-or- you can whirlpool, then pour into the cube.

Those of you that pour into the cube, do you take your hops out of the wort first?

are you using hop bags (if so, I don't see how they would fit into the cube opening)?

pnj said:

Those of you that pour into the cube, do you take your hops out of the wort first?

are you using hop bags (if so, I don't see how they would fit into the cube opening)?

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Sometimes I cube hop, sometimes I dont... you can leave the hops in the wort in the fermentor if you want. It is better if you use pellets if you are letting the hops into the fermentor since they settle out nicely.

I allways leave my hops in the primary. Are you saying you don't do that?

pnj said:

I allways leave my hops in the primary. Are you saying you don't do that?

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Meh, not really. I have in the past, but not anymore. No real difference.

Whatever I use in the boil, I pour into my primary. It will stay there until I rack into a secondary or bottle bucket.

I keep reading about people draining their hot wort into their primary. Is there any reason why I can't use a large funnel and just dump the hot wort into a winpak thing?

Is getting oxegen into the hot wort bad?

How do I add oxegen when I'm ready to pitch my yeast, if I ferment in my winpak thinger?


thanks.

pnj said:

I keep reading about people draining their hot wort into their primary. Is there any reason why I can't use a large funnel and just dump the hot wort into a winpak thing?

Is getting oxegen into the hot wort bad?

How do I add oxegen when I'm ready to pitch my yeast, if I ferment in my winpak thinger?


thanks.

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My Winpak IS my fermentor and cooling vessel. To aerate, you just shke it when it is cool, like you would anything else.

pnj said:

Is there any reason why I can't use a large funnel and just dump the hot wort into a winpak thing?

Is getting oxegen into the hot wort bad?

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NO! YOU CAN'T do THAT!!!!!!!! Hot side Aeration!!!!!!!!!! BAD!

Except I did just that on the no chills I have done and both have turned out really well. The wheat I am drinking now was half no chilled and half old school, and the hops do stand out, but no other apparent taste problems.

And I scooped hot wort out of my boil kettle with a pitcher and poured it into a funnel with a hose on the end into my cube. The hose was like a blow off tube, and I cut it to go to the bottom of the cube, just to minimize agitation. But it got aerated even being gently poured into the funnel.

I am planning on installing a ball valve in my boil kettle soon.

Pol, have you brewed that Pils yet? I ask because I plan on giving this no chill a try on a Westmalle Extra clone that is 100% Castle Pils. The whole pils malt and DMS issue was discussed a little several pages back but it seemed only one person had really brewed with a significant amount of it without issue. I plan on doing a 90min boil, I'd think this would be enough to drive off all the precursor? How long into fermentation would I be able to tell if it's really an issue as I've never really had DMS problems in the past. Thanks for all the info, I kept thinking about upgrading to a whirlpool chiller, but that was at least a $100+ investment.

dreadnatty08 said:

Pol, have you brewed that Pils yet? I ask because I plan on giving this no chill a try on a Westmalle Extra clone that is 100% Castle Pils. The whole pils malt and DMS issue was discussed a little several pages back but it seemed only one person had really brewed with a significant amount of it without issue. I plan on doing a 90min boil, I'd think this would be enough to drive off all the precursor? How long into fermentation would I be able to tell if it's really an issue as I've never really had DMS problems in the past. Thanks for all the info, I kept thinking about upgrading to a whirlpool chiller, but that was at least a $100+ investment.

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My brewing is halted because my Barley Crusher broke...

Until that is replaced, I am dead in the water. I would think a 90 minute boil would suffice, but I may do 100 mins to be safe. Also, the vogor of the boil will matter... which is not a problem on my rig, but there are some that have a tough time boiling with vigor.

Brewed my Austin HB kit yesterday, Utah HB51 Collaboration Amber Ale, and then cooled it in the sink to under 100* and stuck it in the fridge overnight to get it colder. Pitched my starter and now waiting for the yeast to do their magic.

ibbones said:

Brewed my Austin HB kit yesterday, Utah HB51 Collaboration Amber Ale, and then cooled it in the sink to under 100* and stuck it in the fridge overnight to get it colder.

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That's not no-chill.

To really no-chill, well how the Aussie's do it, the wort needs to stay really hot for quite a while. The ensures the cube is sanitized. Side affect is more hop isomerization. (ever how you spell it...)

I just let one go almost 3 days, just put it in the cube after a 5 minute whirlpool. In the storage closet (room temperature) for a bout a day and a half, then in the fermentation chamber for the rest. Had yeast issues with my RWS (dead vial), but pitched another tube. Transferred to my primary and pitched the whole 3 quart starter (1.070 robust porter - I diluted the started to around 1.040). It was bubbling less than an hour later...

dreadnatty08 said:

Pol, have you brewed that Pils yet? I ask because I plan on giving this no chill a try on a Westmalle Extra clone that is 100% Castle Pils. The whole pils malt and DMS issue was discussed a little several pages back but it seemed only one person had really brewed with a significant amount of it without issue. I plan on doing a 90min boil, I'd think this would be enough to drive off all the precursor? How long into fermentation would I be able to tell if it's really an issue as I've never really had DMS problems in the past. Thanks for all the info, I kept thinking about upgrading to a whirlpool chiller, but that was at least a $100+ investment.

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I've switched to all no-chill for my last 135 gallons. Of that, 45 gallons have been all Pils malt, and I've had no issues with DMS, doing 90 minute boils for all my no-chills. I say go for it

gxm said:

I've switched to all no-chill for my last 135 gallons. Of that, 45 gallons have been all Pils malt, and I've had no issues with DMS, doing 90 minute boils for all my no-chills. I say go for it

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Thanks, can't wait to see how it turns out. Since I'll do a longer boil I can get better utilization out of the hops, and add more at FO.

So has anyone done a 60 minute boil with pilsner malt? I've never had a problem with 60 minutes and cheap 2-row but this is the first time I've ever used proper pilsner grain as a base. I'll probably end up going 90 to be on the safe side. I'm just wondering if anyone has had success at 60 without chilling afterwards.

I've tasted brews from another local brewer who does 60 minute boils w/ all Pilsner malt. No cabbages, no DMS, just damn good beer.

Toss another myth onto the pyre.

So I'm relatively new around here, and still doing extracts with steeping grains, but I'm intrigued by this method. I'm actually brewing right now a Sea Dog Blueberry Wheat clone that was supposedly from BYO, using steeping grain and extract. I'm planning on going the no-chill route, since it's such a PITA to do ice bath chilling, and I was going to get a plate chiller from ebay after seeing people's success around here, but I held off, and now this idea comes around. My only question/concern is that the only good HDPE container I could find locally, as I didn't want to pay shipping, was 5g blitz gasoline containers from Walmart. They're HDPE, and they seal shut, so why not?

No seriously, is there any reason (other than the small volume of head space that will be on top of the beer) to not use simple plastic gasoline cans? The head space is an issue, but how much of one, I don't know. I'm not worried about infection because I'll mix it up really well while still super hot, so it disinfects the surrounding areas, but I'm worried slightly about oxidation. That being said, I'm planning on glug glugging the crap out of it when transfering to a carboy to ensure good aeration for the fermentation tomorrow.

I was also in love with this method because it basically made a starter for me, but talking to my LHBS today, they said I wouldn't need a starter for this dry Windsor 11 gram yeast. I dunno, we'll see how it turns out.

Thanks everyone for sharing their ideas and experiences on this new and groundbreaking (for us Americans) method!

I wouldnt put a food product in an HDPE containter meant for gasoline. That is just me. Id rather spend $15 and get food grade stuff.

Also, most gas cans do not seal air tight, I have never seen one that has.