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Nail

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Found these on ebay. About half the cost of others I have found. To use them with 240v you would wire them in line controlling the coil of the relay. When the GFCI trips it cuts power to the coil and to the panel or heater element depending on which relay it is wired to. $20 shipped. I bought one for the panel I am doing right now. I like that the GFCI will be integrated into the panel itself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...70623&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_5744wt_1139

:mug:
 
The literature states that it shuts off quickly enough that a "normal healthy adult" will not experience serious electrical injury. You'll probably see stars, and you may need clean underwear afterwards, but at least you won't be black and crispy like Wylie Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons.
...
Just wire them so nothing smokes and you'll be fine... so long as nobody touches anything. I mean, it's not like you're gonna have them inspected, so what could possibly go wrong?
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I think you will need it so I wish you - Good luck!
 
/\ +1. Where is the disclaimer stating the guy has no idea what he is talking about and you're completely on your own? I'm almost tempted to buy one to see what the heck they are selling that is rated for 80 amps.
 
Yeah, I had a good chuckle when I read the seller's description too. "Just wire them so nothing smokes" is my favorite.

However, based on the actual instruction manual, it looks like they actually should work, provided you use one of the few contactors specifically mentioned in the manual. The problem is none of those contactors I googled could be had for less then $100. For that reason, it seems it would be cheaper overall to use a proper GFCI breaker and generic contactors.

I'm planning to build my own control panel soon, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong...
 
P-J said:
I'd suggest that you get a spa panel from homedepot.com. It's about $50±. Wiring it up? Really easy.

Tell me what you have as a power source and I'll show you how.
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I Wish that were the case here in Canada... The cheapest Home Depot has them for here is just about $250:eek:

I work for a spa retailer, and I can't even get one for $50 at cost... So this looks like an awesome alternative!
 
While the seller and his write-up may be a little corny, Leviton itself is a reputable company and if you look at the pictures of the instructions they provide a diagram of how to wire it to a relay. Any relay with a 120v coil should work with the GFCI. If this doesn't work and I don't see why it wouldn't I will end up going with the spa panel recommended from Homedepot
 
Any relay with a 120v coil should work with the GFCI.
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In my mind the issue is more how fast it will work. GFCI's have to operate in as little as 25 milliseconds. This includes the time to drop out the relay. The manufacturer certifies that certain relays meet this criteria, but yours may or may not. I wouldn't be comfortable using a non-certified relay without testing it.
 
sdugre said:
In my mind the issue is more how fast it will work. GFCI's have to operate in as little as 25 milliseconds. This includes the time to drop out the relay. The manufacturer certifies that certain relays meet this criteria, but yours may or may not. I wouldn't be comfortable using a non-certified relay without testing it.
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25 milliseconds or 25 seconds, what's the difference, it's just a little electicity!:eek:
 
I am waiting for mine to get here so I can test it. Although I am not sure how I am going to time less than a second. I am having bungs welded on my kettle for the heater element so I am not really worried about some of the problems that haunt heatsticks. I am adding the GFCI to my cabinet because you can never be too careful.
 
Nail said:
I am waiting for mine to get here so I can test it. Although I am not sure how I am going to time less than a second. I am having bungs welded on my kettle for the heater element so I am not really worried about some of the problems that haunt heatsticks. I am adding the GFCI to my cabinet because you can never be too careful.
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That's my sentiments, After I seen the price of Stab-lok gfi breakers and spa panels here in Canada, I was prepared to go without one altogether. So even if takes 3/4 - 1 second its a whole bunch better than not at all.
 
eric_pwb said:
After I seen the price of Stab-lok gfi breakers and spa panels here in Canada, I was prepared to go without one altogether.
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So.... you had decided that your life was worth less than the price of GFCI?

I was disheartened by the price of GFCI when I started looking into putting my system together, but I made the opposite decision as you. I had decided that if I couldn't afford the GFCI, then I simply wasn't going to build an electric system.
 
Walker said:
So.... you had decided that your life was worth less than the price of GFCI?
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Not at all... I believe that well thought out and properly constructed system provides the protection that is needed. Things like cable routing away from heat, and potting electrical connections in epoxy and containing them in water tight enclosures, and of course proper grounding, a GFI is simply the last line of defence.

Don't get me wrong, I DO think they are a great idea, and they do step in in extraordinary circumstances, but if your rig is constructed properly and you use common sense during its operation there should be no need for one... That being said, now that I have seen this one, I will be including it when it shows up.
 
I'd actually consider GFCI the 1st line of defense for human protection, but each person determines their own level of acceptable risk in a brewing rig design.
 
I agree that in a scenario where mistakes are never made, accidents never happen, and components never fail.... then GFCI is total unnecessary.

But, I tend to drink while brewing. :D
 
Just an update. I received my main power contact relay today. It was listed as new on eBay but is not even close. It has bluing on the contacts, screws missing, etc. First I was highly upset but then figured it could be an opportunity. Point of the story is I found a 240v relay 120v coil listed on the approved GFCI for use for $13 shipped on ebay. So for anyone that has not bought their main relay and are still designing their cabinet like I am, here is the listing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260794571521#ht_695wt_905

So recap GFCI-$20, relay $13. Still cheaper than the spa panel by itself, not to mention the cost of the separate relay.
 
eric_pwb said:
Not at all... I believe that well thought out and properly constructed system provides the protection that is needed. Things like cable routing away from heat, and potting electrical connections in epoxy and containing them in water tight enclosures, and of course proper grounding, a GFI is simply the last line of defence.

Don't get me wrong, I DO think they are a great idea, and they do step in in extraordinary circumstances, but if your rig is constructed properly and you use common sense during its operation there should be no need for one... That being said, now that I have seen this one, I will be including it when it shows up.
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Um, if you DON'T use a GFCI, then your system is neither well thought out nor properly constructed. Period.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Um, if you DON'T use a GFCI, then your system is neither well thought out nor properly constructed. Period.
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I am NOT saying that a gfi is not a good idea, or that it has not saved many people from a good jolt, or much much worse. What I am saying is that one can go a long way to protecting one self using common sense and quality workmanship. For instance there should be no denying that this:


IMG_6681.jpg


is far safer than this:


images


In either situation a gfi is most certainly a very good idea, and I know that I am not the first one here to talk about not using, or not use a gfi in their system.. And I do already have one of the units mentioned by the OP on order and will be using a listed relay..
 
I'm thinking about getting one of those 20amp GFCI's and running it to my 50amp 240 spa breaker. Is it going to screw this up because the 50amp breaker is running to a 20amp GFCI?
 
jdlev said:
I'm thinking about getting one of those 20amp GFCI's and running it to my 50amp 240 spa breaker. Is it going to screw this up because the 50amp breaker is running to a 20amp GFCI?
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What "20amp GFCI" are you talking about?
 
It says it's rated at 20amp in the description? I'm not sure what the 80a means?
 
Used by itself the GFCI is only rated at 20a and 120v. Since most of use will be using it with a 240v system, it requires a contactor relay which when used together, it can be rated up to 80a depending on the relay used. I personally ordered a 30a contactor relay since that is what everything else is rated at for my system
 
All this electrical stuff is greek to me :mad: What the heck is a relay that up's the amperage the GFCI can handle? Can you tell me what exactly I need to add to the end of the wire (outlet, relay, etc) to get an idea of how to make this thing work?

I guess I have to learn sometime, might as well be now! Thanks for the help so far!
 
Deleted response explaining how it can do 20A by iteself, or more when used with an internal relay because that seems to be BS.

The seller's description is NOT accurate based on what am reading in the manufacturer's document.
 
Walker said:
Ok.. so the way it works is that...
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Ok.. so having written that, I don't think this "20A" rating that is mentioned in the listing is accurate at all.

I am looking at the freaking manufacturer's documentation and it says that the GFCI load terminals on the module itself are rated for "0.6A max".

so... f#ck that seller's description. I don't yet see anything in the manufacturer's document that indicates that it can handle 20A.
 
Thanks walker! PS...you gotta change that avatar...c'mon man...I mean put some boobies up there or something nice to look at! :)
 
PS...walker...see you're in Cary! I'm coming up with the carolina brewmasters on a 4 or 5 brewery tour this weekend in Raleigh on Saturday. You should crash the party :)
 
dude... there are about 60 guys up here in the officially unofficial disorganized organization called GRABASS (Greater Raleigh Area Brewers and Suds Sippers).

You say the word, and we could descend on you like a freaking army.
 
Check out http://carolinabrewmasters.com for details on the breweries we'll be touring :D

I don't know what the schedule for the day is, but they have more info on there if you scroll down on the first page.

If you come out...I might not remember lol...homebrews on the bus + 5 breweries = a very, very drunk Jeff!
 
Walker said:
Ok.. so having written that, I don't think this "20A" rating that is mentioned in the listing is accurate at all.

I am looking at the freaking manufacturer's documentation and it says that the GFCI load terminals on the module itself are rated for "0.6A max".

so... f#ck that seller's description. I don't yet see anything in the manufacturer's document that indicates that it can handle 20A.
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I recieved mine this weekend and you are right Walk, it must be used with a relay. DO NOT go by the item description. It is some guy that got them at an auction or something and is trying to make money. If ya need to see how to use one, check this out.

http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/1635-102-1-2298/Ins 8895.pdf

It has the relays approved to use with it and the instructions to wire it. This cannot be used by itself. Sorry for the confusion that I added to.
 
totally :off:, but I have a large wooden crate with a lid that sits just inside the door. We keep shoes in it.

it's from the Mishwaka Wool Company and looks old as hell.

Got it for $1 at a garage sale.
 

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