FAQ: Aluminum Pots for Boil Kettles?

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I should have been more clear in my original post. I was questioning the science (is it true) about just using water over night to condition the pot. I will boil mine and use the water for chilling later in a cold ice bath.

I'm sure it would eventually start to create an oxide layer, however, most chemical reaction times change with temperature. So while it may create a layer with cold water, it should be much quicker with boiling water. I think of metal elements and car radiators that rust quicker because of heat ,where metal will rust slower in cooler temperatures. I'm not very well versed in anything chemistry related , but I read up on many sites and blogs about aluminium pots, and I will use aluminium in a heart beat :mug:
 
I'm sure it would eventually start to create an oxide layer, however, most chemical reaction times change with temperature. So while it may create a layer with cold water, it should be much quicker with boiling water. I think of metal elements and car radiators that rust quicker because of heat ,where metal will rust slower in cooler temperatures. I'm not very well versed in anything chemistry related , but I read up on many sites and blogs about aluminium pots, and I will use aluminium in a heart beat :mug:

It finally got warm enough today for my propane tanks to work on the burner so I did a 60 minute boil on the new aluminum pot. Prior to this I tried just letting hot water stand in the pot and changing the water once a day. I did get small white particles attached to the inside of the pot with this method but not much change in the color. Here is a picture of what it looks like after the boil. Comments....???? Did I over do it? I did not use anything but the water the city provides. No oxyclean or pbw. Just straight hard water.

SAM_1324.jpg
 
That looks like my kettle, go ahead and use it to make beer.

Should I be concerned at all with the small white flakes? I know to get rid of them but if they reappear after brewing a batch of beer? I know I am probably over analyzing this but I don't get much time to brew this time of year and I want to avoid any problems at the start.
 
Should I be concerned at all with the small white flakes? I know to get rid of them but if they reappear after brewing a batch of beer? I know I am probably over analyzing this but I don't get much time to brew this time of year and I want to avoid any problems at the start.

Your pot looks perfect now. I'm guessing the white flakes are some minerals from your water. Just clean your pot with a sponge, don't use something abrasive and you should be golden. You got a nice layer build up, nice job.
 
Should I be concerned at all with the small white flakes? I know to get rid of them but if they reappear after brewing a batch of beer? I know I am probably over analyzing this but I don't get much time to brew this time of year and I want to avoid any problems at the start.


I think it's just lime from the water, I get the same if boiling water only (extremely hard water here, lime comes flying out of the clothes iron when you use the steam function kind of hard)
 
Had such good success with the last one that I set up a boil to condition the inside of my new aluminum pot and I lost track of time only to find that I had let the boil go for 2 hours instead of 1 hour. Now the inside of the pot is black instead of gray like my other one. Does this look safe to use or should I try to scrub off some of the black layer? My intuition says its fine but I want to be sure to ask others before I try to use it today.

SAM_1335.jpg


SAM_1336.jpg
 
I was making a ginger beer with 3/4 cups lemon juice and about a pound of ginger in 3 gallons of water. Boiled about 20 min and afterwards when cleaning up noticed the aluminum oxide layer in my 40qt kettle was gone in the gallon portion where this solution had been. I have heard that acids can remove the oxide layer, my questions:

1. Can I just rebuild the oxide layer by re-boiling water?
2. Is it safe to consume this solution that may have the Al-oxide in suspension?
3. Would this cause any fermentation problems (both due to aluminum, and the acidity of the solution being too extreme for yeast with all the lemon juice, sort of off topic, sorry...)
 
beer is your friend, not your adversary. the bacteria in your malt in storage is a non issue at the end of the boil. The bacteria you breathe into the wort while transferring to the fermenter seldom competes with the yeast, and succumb as the alcohol develops. about all random minerals and compounds settle to the bottom of the trub during fermentation.

no one makes beer perfect, but beer always helps you make it good.

MMM, beer zen

That being said, for all I know, beer might just hate you for using things that aren't malt,hops, water, or yeast.
 
jw1500, Acids will remove the oxide layer on Al pots (like when you soak your pot in starsan, like I did), but rebuilding the02 layer is possible by just boiling more water.
2) I can't say, I'm not a Dr., and didn't I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
3) You might "temper" the yeast (my term) by making a wort solution (starter) and gradually building up the amount of lemon juice. I've got no evidence to back this up. Just my dos centavos.
 
The 'aluminum vs. stainless steel' (SS) pot debate pops up frequently, and given that we tend to see lots of new homebrewers enter the hobby shortly after Christmas, perhaps it is timely to post an FAQ on the subject.

Q: Is an aluminum pot OK for a boiling kettle in homebrewing? My LHBS only recommens using stainless steel.


A: Both aluminum and SS pots are excellent in homebrewing, and each has its own advantages and disadvantages, so it is purely a personal preference. Here are some considerations:


Aluminum Pots:
Pros:
- considerably less expensive than SS
- much better at conducting heat than SS, which means faster boils, faster cooling, and less chance of scorching
- not as heavy to lift as SS

Cons:
- oxidizes easily, meaning that oxygen-based cleaners (e.g., Oxyclean, One-step) cannot be used (Note: caustic or other similar clean-in-place solutions can definitely not be used, which is why the brewing industry generally does not use aluminum.)
- passive oxide layer must be built up before brewing (**see note below) with a new aluminum kettle, although it is very easy to maintain

Stainless Steel Pots:
Pros:
- can be cleaned by oxygenated/CIP cleaners without damaging the pot
- passive oxide layer that protects the pot is not as easy to remove as aluminum
- they are really shiny and look cool!

Cons:
- expensive
- not nearly as good at conducting heat as aluminum

Myths About Aluminum Pots:
- Aluminum pots will cause Alzheimer's disease. FALSE. This myth was debunked years ago by the medical research community, and the US National Institutes of Health and Health Canada have long since ruled out a connection between Alzheimer’s disease and aluminum cookware. If you don’t believe me, see the following:
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99
http://alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp
http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/alzheimers.htm

- Boiling your wort in an aluminum pot will cause off-flavours in your beer. FALSE. Simply boiling a batch of wort will not remove enough metal from your aluminum pot to get into your beer and cause metallic off flavours, particularly if you build up a passive oxide layer inside the pot first. For new pots, this is easily achieved by either boiling the pot full of water for 30 mins to one hour, or by putting it in your oven for 10 mins at 350 F.

- Aluminum pots have very thin walls, and are not suitable for a boil kettle, particularly if you want to install a ball valve. FALSE. Thin- and thick-walled pots are made from both aluminum and stainless steel. The material they are made from is much less relevant that the thickness of the pot.

- Aluminum pots will react with very acidic materials, and wort is acidic. NOT REALLY. Wort isn’t acidic enough to cause a problem with an aluminum pot. In fact, both SS and aluminum are quite resistant to acidic materials, and you need to be concerned more about highly alkaline (i.e. basic or high pH) materials with your pots.

- Aluminum pots are simply not as durable as SS pots, so why bother, plus they will scratch easily and harbor bacteria. PERHAPS, BUT... Both aluminum and SS are durable enough for homebrewing if you are willing to invest just a small amount of care for your equipment. You simply aren’t going to wear out an aluminum pot in your brewing lifetime, so this is a moot argument. Furthermore, scratches aren’t really a concern with a kettle since the heat of the boil is going to sanitize it anyways.

The Bottom Line:

You can’t go wrong with a quality stainless steel pot, and they are a tried-and-true solution for lots of homebrewers. Yet, aluminum is a viable alternative that is much less expensive than SS. In fact, you can generally purchase a larger and heavier aluminum pot compared to the equivalently priced SS pot. In homebrewing, I guarantee you will really appreciate having a larger pot that is heavy and conducts heat well, speeding our boiling and cooling times and reducing scorching. In my mind, this far outweighs the cosmetic appeal and somewhat higher durability of a SS pot.


I have probably missed a few important points, but would be happy to ammend this post to keep it thorough and accurate.
Were does it say the the "myth is debunked? the link you provided for the Alzheimers site states this...

"Aluminium – Very low levels of many metals are present in the brain. Aluminium is a toxic metal that is common in our everyday environment. Small amounts of it are found in water and food. Although initial studies linked aluminium toxicity with Alzheimer's disease, the link has not been proven despite continuing investigation. Importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that aluminium exposure increases your risk of dementia."

If you research cigarette smoking and the health effects you will find that they said the same thing about their being no proof that it was linked to cancer for years despite all the evidence stating otherwise. finally after big tobacco had enough years to get there affairs in order and get into other markets the "official" word was spread that yes it has a link... over the years its become more and more associated with cancer and the stigma with smoking has grown as people learn to accept it.

Same thing happened with asbestos... The first medical proof of deaths caused by asbestos fibers were in the early 1900s.... The profits simply outweighed the consequences for a long time... same with metal tooth filling and cellular phones (the Us goverment has done many indepentant studies on this and every time the independent research companies come back saying yes their is a link the information is officially discredited).

I'm not really a conspiracy theory person myself but history repeats itself and its naive to believe that there could be no link here.... Remember people once put mercury on cuts and bruises and lead was once totally save for food contact...
For years leading up to these things being "proven" to be bad for your health there were studies that found both evidence pointing their was and others saying their wasn't... Some were biased and some were not... The fact that their "seems" to be a link should be reason enough for people to think twice...

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=66


http://mightynest.com/learn/getting...guides/12-ways-to-avoid-toxins-in-the-kitchen


http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92

And I worked in an Italian restaurant for years. I seen first hand what acidic sauce does to aluminum pots over time... They do pit up bad.
 
Were does it say the the "myth is debunked? the link you provided for the Alzheimers site states this...

"Aluminium – Very low levels of many metals are present in the brain. Aluminium is a toxic metal that is common in our everyday environment. Small amounts of it are found in water and food. Although initial studies linked aluminium toxicity with Alzheimer's disease, the link has not been proven despite continuing investigation. Importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that aluminium exposure increases your risk of dementia."

If you research cigarette smoking and the health effects you will find that they said the same thing about their being no proof that it was linked to cancer for years despite all the evidence stating otherwise. finally after big tobacco had enough years to get there affairs in order and get into other markets the "official" word was spread that yes it has a link... over the years its become more and more associated with cancer and the stigma with smoking has grown as people learn to accept it.

Same thing happened with asbestos... The first medical proof of deaths caused by asbestos fibers were in the early 1900s.... The profits simply outweighed the consequences for a long time... same with metal tooth filling and cellular phones (the Us goverment has done many indepentant studies on this and every time the independent research companies come back saying yes their is a link the information is officially discredited).

I'm not really a conspiracy theory person myself but history repeats itself and its naive to believe that there could be no link here.... Remember people once put mercury on cuts and bruises and lead was once totally save for food contact...
For years leading up to these things being "proven" to be bad for your health there were studies that found both evidence pointing their was and others saying their wasn't... Some were biased and some were not... The fact that their "seems" to be a link should be reason enough for people to think twice...

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=66


http://mightynest.com/learn/getting...guides/12-ways-to-avoid-toxins-in-the-kitchen


http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92

And I worked in an Italian restaurant for years. I seen first hand what acidic sauce does to aluminum pots over time... They do pit up bad.
First off, re-exam your sources.

Secondly, the connection between aluminum and alzheimer's was first thought in 1960s when it was found that alzheimer's patients had higher levels of aluminum in the brain than normal. However, there have been no conclusive evidence to show a link between aluminum and alzheimer's in particular because:

a) Not all autopsies showed higher-than-normal levels of aluminum in patients. Some had average levels of aluminum in brain tissue and some had below-average levels.

b) Many people who drink from aluminum cans, cook food wrapped in aluminum foil, cook with aluminum pots and pans, take antacids, and so on never develop alzheimer's.

Most people with healthy kidneys, among other bodily functions, remove all but 3 - 5% of aluminum from the body. For some reason, some people absorb more aluminum than others, but there is still no causality between this and alzheimer's.

Some scientists even claim that the excessive amounts of aluminum found in autopsies of alzheimer's patients originated from equipment and chemical solutions used to analyze the tissue samples.

Bottom line is this: brain cell death is what alzheimer's is.

Surely, aluminum toxicity is not a good thing but if it were such a huge health concern don't you think that this metal would drop out of use world-wide and that more than a handful of people would be against it?

Besides, two of your links also claim that copper cookware is bad news and if you follow their source material you will find that even stainless steel can leach metals into the food products.
 
First off, re-exam your sources.

Secondly, the connection between aluminum and alzheimer's was first thought in 1960s when it was found that alzheimer's patients had higher levels of aluminum in the brain than normal. However, there have been no conclusive evidence to show a link between aluminum and alzheimer's in particular because:

a) Not all autopsies showed higher-than-normal levels of aluminum in patients. Some had average levels of aluminum in brain tissue and some had below-average levels.

b) Many people who drink from aluminum cans, cook food wrapped in aluminum foil, cook with aluminum pots and pans, take antacids, and so on never develop alzheimer's.

Most people with healthy kidneys, among other bodily functions, remove all but 3 - 5% of aluminum from the body. For some reason, some people absorb more aluminum than others, but there is still no causality between this and alzheimer's.

Some scientists even claim that the excessive amounts of aluminum found in autopsies of alzheimer's patients originated from equipment and chemical solutions used to analyze the tissue samples.

Bottom line is this: brain cell death is what alzheimer's is.

Surely, aluminum toxicity is not a good thing but if it were such a huge health concern don't you think that this metal would drop out of use world-wide and that more than a handful of people would be against it?

Besides, two of your links also claim that copper cookware is bad news and if you follow their source material you will find that even stainless steel can leach metals into the food products.
copper cookware is generally lined with another metal such as tin as are aluminum cans nowfor a reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity (notice that unlined copper cookware is now banned in many countries and states?)

More and more aluminum cookware is now being coated

Its not a HUGE health concern but it very well may be for some people... just as asbestos didnt kill or even effect everyone who came in contact with it... Look how long it took from where the first effects of its toxicity were discovered in 1906 to when it was actually discontinued in the 1970s...
and all the legal litigation because of the fact that it was used long after there was no doubt of its harmful effects...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos

To say the same thing doesnt happen of different scales for other products or materials would be very narrow minded... The world simply is simply not that honest. Thats why I referenced cigarettes and the politics and time it took for the united states to even recognize its health risks decades after it was well known and proven... yet most people simply choose to not believe it unless their government finally fesses up and acknowledges it.

its a lot more beneficial to slowly fade the use of harmful products out... look at the use of heavy metal tooth filling for example.. My dentist was pretty insistent that I have mine removed and it wasn't till I got home and did some reading that I learned why...

Look at cell phones. Its now a proven fact that excessive cell phone use and the microwave radiation it creates causes the thyroids glands hormone outputs to be effected and in some cases dramatically... but there is simply too much at stake financially for this to be an issue... Eventually safer technology will phase this out as it has been. Twice now Ive read that the federal government hired independent researchers to look for links to harmful tumors or cancer from cell phone use and although the research was not conclusive enough to meet the federal governments "standards of proof" The research companies officially stated that yes as far as they are concerned they believe there is enough proof to show a link and they advised their employees as such.

And dont get me started on how much cell phone use has effected the amount of driving accidents and deaths related to it... more deaths than GUNS!! but look who taxes every message and cell phone minute and makes a fortune doing it..not mention they can keep accurat tabs on every person who has one since most owners willingly give up most of their privacy willingly to have it.

This has gotten way off topic.
 
For what it is worth, beer is a health concern to many but that does not stop us from enjoying it.

If someone is concerned about aluminum, then don't use it. Simple as that. I don't like BPA and other epoxy resins used to line aluminum cans so I buy my beer in bottles and rarely drink soda anyways. For canned foods, I prefer to buy BPA-free. However, I am not going to freak out if someone hands me a can of beer or I find out those pork and beans came from a "conventional" can.

I have a ten gallon aluminum kettle. I don't use it much these days because the heat from the propane burner caused the bottom to contract and expand so much that the dang thing is permanently warped outward. It will never sit up straight again (and I have tried to hammer it "flat", to no avail). It's like the Charlie Brown Christmas tree of brew kettles; it looks pathetic but will produce well if given some love. My other kettle is SS.

For those looking to get into all-grain brewing or full batch boils of extract, aluminum kettles are the cheapest route to go for those looking to just test the waters or if money is tight.
 
Aluminum in the brain ----> Alzheimers?

Correlation /= causation.

pirates.jpg

Before Prohibition was repealed, there were no nuclear bombs. Since the repeal, LOTS OF NUCLEAR BOMBS & EXPLOSIONS (in testing).

OH NOEZ!!!

:D
 
I had done a bunch of reading online about aluminum and Alzheimer lately as a result of a small argument with the LHBS.

My take on it is that basically half the studies people did showed a link, and half the studies didn't. And the problem with linking aluminum to Alzheimer or anything else it that ALUMINUM IS EVERYWHERE.

It seemed that the most logical advice was that if you were worried about Alzheimer than maybe try eating right and getting exercise. Some people are genetically predisposed to getting Alzheimer and I suppose if I were one I might limit my exposure to aluminum perhaps. Another interesting thing I read was that some people are actually more predisposed to aluminum accumulation in the body than others.

All very complicated and seemingly impossible to prove or disprove a link which is why it is almost impossible to even get funding to do research on it anymore.
 
As long as you build up a passive oxide layer in your kettle you will be fine. I use aluminum exclusively. It's cheaper, and it transfers heat better. Was the gentleman at your LHBS trying to make a sale?
 
Hi Everyone,

I have a crappy "turkey fryer" Aluminum Kettle that came with the burner I bought. I've only used it a few times to brew and I have since gone to a proper Stainless Brew Kettle.

I noticed that the last time I cleaned it I left One Step in it for too long and it seemed to have given it an odd oxidizing stain. See pics below:

AL%20Kettle%201.jpg



AL%20Kettle%202.jpg


I have NOT used bleach to clean it but I am concerned about the oxidation.

Would you trust this to be safe for boiling sparge water in still?
 
I would scrub the pot with a scourer and boil hot water and throw it out to build a nice oxide layer again. Should still be fine for brewing
 
As long as you build up a passive oxide layer in your kettle you will be fine. I use aluminum exclusively. It's cheaper, and it transfers heat better. Was the gentleman at your LHBS trying to make a sale?


He was showing a newbie equipment and explaining why all they had was stainless. That seems pretty common though. I'd
Be surprised to find aluminum stuff in any homebrew shop.
 
Stainless is more durable and looks better, so if you can justify the cost it's worth it, especially if it has the tri-clad bottom, but there's nothing wrong with aluminum
 
I have since gone to a proper Stainless Brew Kettle.

Both aluminum and SS pots are excellent in homebrewing, and each has its own advantages and disadvantages, so it is purely a personal preference.

I have both stainless and aluminum. I like both for different reasons. I wouldn't say stainless is more proper.
 
I have a 5 gal. and 8 gal. SS pots. I brew 2.5 gal BIAB always. For most recipes my 5 gal pot works fine, and the 8 gal is an overkill, for some recipes with larger grain bills, the 5 gal falls short of space by just a bit. I started looking for a 6 gal pot and there are not many around, I found this 24 qt. Vollrath 7306 Arkadia stock pot, 6 gauge that looked perfect, ordered from webrestaurant.com and did my first water boil last night trying to figure out the boil off rate for it. I have always brew on my stove and never had an issue boiling up to 4 gal of wort or water in my 5 gal SS pot, but last night I tried to boil 3 gal on the aluminum pot and yes, the water got to 212F and I could see some tiny bubbles coming from the bottom of the pot but it never got to a rolling boil???? What is wrong with this pot? I actually was hoping for a more vigorous boil being aluminum a better heat media transfer. The pot is super solid and professional grade, so what gives???
 
I have a 5 gal. and 8 gal. SS pots. I brew 2.5 gal BIAB always. For most recipes my 5 gal pot works fine, and the 8 gal is an overkill, for some recipes with larger grain bills, the 5 gal falls short of space by just a bit. I started looking for a 6 gal pot and there are not many around, I found this 24 qt. Vollrath 7306 Arkadia stock pot, 6 gauge that looked perfect, ordered from webrestaurant.com and did my first water boil last night trying to figure out the boil off rate for it. I have always brew on my stove and never had an issue boiling up to 4 gal of wort or water in my 5 gal SS pot, but last night I tried to boil 3 gal on the aluminum pot and yes, the water got to 212F and I could see some tiny bubbles coming from the bottom of the pot but it never got to a rolling boil???? What is wrong with this pot? I actually was hoping for a more vigorous boil being aluminum a better heat media transfer. The pot is super solid and professional grade, so what gives???

Electric stove or gas? If elec--does the bottom make good contact with the burner?

Aluminum is a much better heat conductor than SS. Maybe the top part of the kettle is acting as a heat sink to radiate off some of the heat.
 
Gas, the aluminum pot definitely gets hotter than my SS, you can't even take the pot by the handles when the water is hot
 
I have a 5 gal. and 8 gal. SS pots. I brew 2.5 gal BIAB always. For most recipes my 5 gal pot works fine, and the 8 gal is an overkill, for some recipes with larger grain bills, the 5 gal falls short of space by just a bit. I started looking for a 6 gal pot and there are not many around, I found this 24 qt. Vollrath 7306 Arkadia stock pot, 6 gauge that looked perfect, ordered from webrestaurant.com and did my first water boil last night trying to figure out the boil off rate for it. I have always brew on my stove and never had an issue boiling up to 4 gal of wort or water in my 5 gal SS pot, but last night I tried to boil 3 gal on the aluminum pot and yes, the water got to 212F and I could see some tiny bubbles coming from the bottom of the pot but it never got to a rolling boil???? What is wrong with this pot? I actually was hoping for a more vigorous boil being aluminum a better heat media transfer. The pot is super solid and professional grade, so what gives???


I have this issue with my pressure cooker. Electric stove, aluminum cooker. It will only boil if I put the lid on. Now, you say, don't you need the lid on to pressure cook? Yes, but not if I'm just doing a hot water bath on an acidic food.
But my point is, I can't get a boil out of the large aluminum pot on my electric stove unless the lid is on.

*this is not my brew equipment, just anecdotal data.
 
Yes true, aluminum conducts heat very well, so much so that a larger pot with a minimal heat source may struggle to boil, at the extreme ends of the spectrum of course.
 
*EDIT*

Sorry, I temporarily became what I don't like. Pardon the inconvenience, and carry on!
 
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The better heat conducting heat properties is a downside for me when it comes to chilling. My pot stays hot for a long time and makes it harder to cool.
 
I don't know. Maybe it's just because of how damn thick it is, but my aluminum pot holds heat like a SOB.
 
How do you chill? Maybe immerse the pot in some water to help it along, as again, conductivity goes both ways.

The "how you chill" part might be why I am getting stuck on this... all pardons, I don't mean to badger you.
 

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