Orfy's bud thread made me think.....

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c.n.budz

c.n.budz

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Okay, you've gotta figure that to get the job of Brew Master at AB or one of the other big commercial breweries you need a pretty impressive brewing resume(even if it is from other commercial breweries). If you've spent that much time around/making beer you most likely appreciate good beer. So, you'd think that a skilled brewer who appreciates, and is able to make, good beer would feel guilty about selling his/her soul to the devil. And, I know that if I didn't feel good about what I did for a living I wouldn't be able to go to work everyday.

Don't get me wrong, while I vastly prefer a nice flavorful beer, sometimes a near freezing bud or PBR hits the spot(I'm thinking August + Volleyball + Bikini Chicks <> Stout and/or Porter)

So, here's the question..... Do you think these brewers realize/care that they're making an inferior product(and securing their place in hell), or do they get paid so much that they say, "I make enough money, I don't have to buy my own product" ?

Sorry for the rant, car's in the shop and I'm working from home tomorrow so I've had a few...:drunk:
 
I'd debate if they do have brewers working for them

We know it is marketing driven. So I think they will have a bunch of marketers telling Technicians what they want. They'll go off and do some small scale batches for the marketers to test taste on punters. The Techies will adjust then put into automated production.

They'll have Marketers, Technician, analysts and production engineers.

No room for brewers
 
Probably more like chemists or biologists working for them than actual people who consider themselves "brewmasters." The team of chemists probably put together the most monetarily efficient formula's to create the product we all know as pisswater.
 
1) There are many people that are very good at what they do but do not enjoy the product they produce.
2) One man's job is another man's hobby.
3) Example: Ask a chef what his guilty pleasure is? What he eats at home?
Do you think he goes through all of the trouble?
 
I just watched Ultimate Factories and it was all about AB and their process. They have the process down completely and a "batch" is 110,000 gallons spread between 11 tanks (IIRC). After the whole beechwood aging thing, two brewmasters pull a sample from each and line them up for tasting. They take notes on each one and start deciding which tanks need blending to balance sweet/bitter to the desired budweiser flavor (really?). I don't love the beer, but I stand in awe of the sheer scale and consistency.
 
I've been to AB several times in St. Louis. . .Its impressive to see their setup. They literally have it extremely automated-- their "brewmaster" was pointed out on one of our tours-- he was sitting in a computer controller room monitoring the process. I don't think there is much "hands on" that occurs at that place.


They do have their process down though.
 
I once read an interview with some famous high-class chef in one of Chicago's premier restaurants. They were asking him about what he cooks for his family and he admitted that his sons (<10 years old, I think) didn't like his food. They like Mac & Cheese (blue box) and McD's. So that's what he feeds them. He knows the junk that's in the food, but it's what his "customers" want.

The ultimate goal of a brewer shouldn't just be to make fantastic, innovative recipes. The goal should be to consistantly make recipes that your audience loves. A great brewer can make the exact same tasting brew over and over again.

I think it must be like being a pilot. When I get on a 747, I don't care that my pilot was once a Blue Angel and can do barrel rolls and fly an inch from another jet. I want my pilot to be very good at going up, holding steady, then coming down. Nothing interesting, please!
 
Another example is a musician. Some make music that they do not like but they know is popular. Some make music that they personally like which may be or often isn't popular.

If either is successful at what they do, it is admirable eeither way.
 
olllllo said:
Another example is a musician. Some make music that they do not like but they know is popular. Some make music that they personally like which may be or often isn't popular.

If either is successful at what they do, it is admirable eeither way.
Click to expand...

Like the Eagles still playing Hotel California or Skynyrd playing Free Bird. Or the Stones and "Jumping Jack Flash".

You know they're sick to death of it, but it'd piss me off if they didn't play it after I spent $200 to see them.
 
olllllo said:
Another example is a musician. Some make music that they do not like but they know is popular. Some make music that they personally like which may be or often isn't popular.

If either is successful at what they do, it is admirable eeither way.
Click to expand...


Hmm, I'm a drummer and I played Mustang Sally and Blister in the Sun a bazillion times. Can you tell which type of musician I am?
 
Ya know, I am really tired of all the Bud-bashing. Honestly. Now I don't care for Bud, never did, but that doesn't mean it's bad beer. It's just a style that most homebrewers don't like. That doesn't mean the brewmasters are incompetent, immoral, or are going to burn in hell. Hell, I wish I could do what they do- and that is make every batch come out with the same quality over and over again, with absolutely no perceptible flaws ever. I sure as hell couldn't do that, and I'd bet that no one here could in a million years, with the exception of the Pastor and maybe a couple others. Ok I'm done ranting, go ahead and flame me for being my usual brutally honest self.
 
Hey Bernie, I hear ya. before I got into homebrew and when I'm saving some cash, all I drink is budweiser... no bud lite though. Budweiser is an easy drinking, filling, good extremely cold, and always the same beer.

hmm, should've said never let's you down? Might sound too much like a commercial then.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Ya know, I am really tired of all the Bud-bashing. Honestly. Now I don't care for Bud, never did, but that doesn't mean it's bad beer. It's just a style that most homebrewers don't like. That doesn't mean the brewmasters are incompetent, immoral, or are going to burn in hell. Hell, I wish I could do what they do- and that is make every batch come out with the same quality over and over again, with absolutely no perceptible flaws ever. I sure as hell couldn't do that, and I'd bet that no one here could in a million years, with the exception of the Pastor and maybe a couple others. Ok I'm done ranting, go ahead and flame me for being my usual brutally honest self.
Click to expand...

You know, bash AB all you want, and I'm not defending them here in any regards, but their Michelob Hefe-weizen, Michelob Porter, and Michelob Maerzen are actually decent beers that are reasonably true to their respective styles. They also produce a winter cask ale that isn't bad either.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Ya know, I am really tired of all the Bud-bashing. Honestly. Now I don't care for Bud, never did, but that doesn't mean it's bad beer. It's just a style that most homebrewers don't like. That doesn't mean the brewmasters are incompetent, immoral, or are going to burn in hell. Hell, I wish I could do what they do- and that is make every batch come out with the same quality over and over again, with absolutely no perceptible flaws ever. I sure as hell couldn't do that, and I'd bet that no one here could in a million years, with the exception of the Pastor and maybe a couple others. Ok I'm done ranting, go ahead and flame me for being my usual brutally honest self.
Click to expand...

Bernie, I definitely agree; for AB to be the largest brewer in the world and crank out the volumes of product they do, with the consistency they do, there are obviously a hell of a lot of people out there who genuinely like their products, throughout the entire world. While I personally don't care for it, I still give them credit where credit is due.
 
You know what........

I can't say I've ever drank a bottle of the stuff. I don't like the way big corporations work sometimes but that is a different matter. I just know I don't like or want to drink Yellow, chilled, fizzy tasteless lagers that are available and drank in the UK and I have a feeling Bud is the same. I'm not saying I wont try it or will never drink it but that's the way it is.

Us Goblins have a saying.

What's the matter lager boy?
Afraid you might taste something?
 
There is what they make and I agree that the scale, consistency and popularity is laudable. But you must also consider what they DO.

They DO gobble up other breweries and spit them out and they DO strong arm distributors and bars into carring only thier products.

And so I DO what ever I can to thwart them.

And yes they fear me.:D
 
A-B, SABMiller, and Coors are the McDonalds of the beer world. They produce a very consistent product but not necessarily a good one. It's cheap and designed to be unoffensive with as little stand-out quailites as possible, and marketed well, so it sells unbelievably.

I will admit to wanting a MdD double cheeseburger every now and again, just like I like Miller High Life. I won't say that it's good food or beer by any means though. It's more of a guilty pleasure than anything else. Consistiency doesn't imply quality. I consistiently drop a load in the toilet every couple of days but I wouldn't call the "product" anything I'd try and pass off as anything but s**t.
 
Before I started drinking microbrew and homebrewing I thought MGD was a quality beer. (Never did like budweiser, even though I like the X-mas steins). Now I can't stomach the stuff. I'll drink water over BMC if that is all that is available.
 
Buford said:
Consistiency doesn't imply quality.
Click to expand...
Sure it does.
In manufacturing, a common definition of quality is conformance to requirements. If BMC has determined that their market requirements are met with the swill they provide, then consistency is at least an important element of "quality".
The problem we homebrewers seem to have is a desire to impose our standards of taste on the masses.
 
You cant blame BMC that they make a product that is gleefully consumed by millions and millons of happy customers. If their wasnt a demand for their product they wouldnt make it. Personally I sdont like the style, infact I'm not a lager fan at all UNLESS it's a screaming hot day and i just want to cool off . . . then give me a MGD or Highlife anytime.

Instead of pissing on the BMC's of the world IMHO you'ld spend your time more productively edjucating "the masses" on what good beeer truely is. Think of it like being a religous evangelist. Sure you can go out and tell everyone their beer is evil, sucks ass and will be the downfall of mankind, but i dont think you're going to convert many people, now if you show them the light of what a great beer truely is and they decide to come over to the side of good all the better, if not atleast you havent alienated potential converts.
 
:drunk:
Bernie Brewer said:
Ya know, I am really tired of all the Bud-bashing. Honestly. Now I don't care for Bud, never did, but that doesn't mean it's bad beer. It's just a style that most homebrewers don't like. That doesn't mean the brewmasters are incompetent, immoral, or are going to burn in hell. Hell, I wish I could do what they do- and that is make every batch come out with the same quality over and over again, with absolutely no perceptible flaws ever. I sure as hell couldn't do that, and I'd bet that no one here could in a million years, with the exception of the Pastor and maybe a couple others. Ok I'm done ranting, go ahead and flame me for being my usual brutally honest self.
Click to expand...

I'm sure i could have the consistency they do if i made my beers with 2lbs of rice, 2lbs of corn and, umm, no hops, too. done! Might as well just mix water with the no boil kits and i'll have consistency alright!!!:drunk:
 
cha ngo said:
Sure it does.
In manufacturing, a common definition of quality is conformance to requirements. If BMC has determined that their market requirements are met with the swill they provide, then consistency is at least an important element of "quality".
The problem we homebrewers seem to have is a desire to impose our standards of taste on the masses.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase. If your manufacturing requirements are to, say, make a smelly turd exactly 6 inches in length every time and you hit that consistiently then yes - you have made a quality turd. Doesn't change the fact that the requirements are still for making a turd. The end product will still be s**t.

Joking aside, not all BMC is terrible crap. I'll drink some of it. It isn't what I'd call "good" beer, though, but that isn't what they're aiming for. They're aiming for the equivalent of fizzy McDonalds hamburgers in a bottle - cheap, easy to drink, and pretty tasteless. I doubt any chef would call a McD hamburger a good example of a hamburger, but it's what the masses like and therefore sells.

Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.
 
Buford said:
Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.
Click to expand...

Craft brewers have to have their staples that people will drink, too. And for people who like it to keep buying it, it has to be consistent. It's the same thing.....they're making the same stuff over and over again, and have to keep it consistent. It's the exact same, on a smaller scale. Sure, they can be creative, experiment, release new/different/seasonal stuff, but in the end it is the same. They make what they can sell, and they have to be consistent at it.

I'll take it a step further and say that most of your "craft" breweries are pretty crappy at consistency. I used to drink a lot of BMC, and every Miller Lite I ever had tasted exactly the same, and so on. A lot of the smaller breweries can't do that, and there are some who's beers I won't buy any more because I don't know what it is I am paying that premium price for. I don't care if it is "the brewer's art," I ain't buying it if there's a chance it is not good.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for BMC and their pisswater, market controlling techniques, etc. Just giving some food for thought.
 
Buford said:
Let me rephrase. If your manufacturing requirements are to, say, make a smelly turd exactly 6 inches in length every time and you hit that consistiently then yes - you have made a quality turd. Doesn't change the fact that the requirements are still for making a turd. The end product will still be s**t.

Joking aside, not all BMC is terrible crap. I'll drink some of it. It isn't what I'd call "good" beer, though, but that isn't what they're aiming for. They're aiming for the equivalent of fizzy McDonalds hamburgers in a bottle - cheap, easy to drink, and pretty tasteless. I doubt any chef would call a McD hamburger a good example of a hamburger, but it's what the masses like and therefore sells.

Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.
Click to expand...
We are in furious agreement!
My point was to not equate "quality" with excellence. Quality is what the customer says it is. BMC does not lack customers.
A bigger concern of mine is the co-opting of craft brews. My example is Blue Moon which I find many people enjoying. The problem I see is that mega produced pseudo craft brews like this will squeeze out the true "artists" by reducing the market. Inevitably (IMHO), these mega-craft brews will gravitate toward mediocrity to appeal to a wider base and although the readily available swill will improve slightly, those of us that enjoy a truly excellent product will find fewer choices.
 
That's the best part about home brewing, you can make what you like and not give a damn about market forces or if anyone else likes it, like a true artist :D

Starving artist maybe, but at least you have beer :tank:
 
Buford said:
That's the best part about home brewing, you can make what you like and not give a damn about market forces or if anyone else likes it, like a true artist :D

Starving artist maybe, but at least you have beer :tank:
Click to expand...

Yup! :mug:
 
I know that I have never liked Budweiser, Molson Canadian etc etc etc However I would like to say though that IF I decided to work as a brewmaster changing careers from Information Technology I would want to work at a brewery that I really admired for their quality of beer and not just for the sheer Vanity of a name. I would not want to work for the BIG GUYS however there are tons of little breweries around such as Alley Cat , or Big Rock, that make great beers in my opinion
 

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