Huge slump.....

Guys....cheer me up.

I have problems. My last 2 batches that should be drinkable by now are FUBAR. Its got me seriously worried. My Mexican Blackbird batch had to be dumped. White scum floating on top. I was scared to try it, so I dumped it. It smelled wierd too. Then just now I tried my latest batch of Gravedigger Golden Ale and it tastes like Band-aids. WTF?
I'm clueless. My sanitation is pretty much flawless. Everything that touches the beer is sanitized. I'm not doing anything different than I was doing previously.

Stumped in Hampton......

Are you an "All Grainer" or an "Extracter". You definitly have a contamination
issue. Though you think your sanitizing you are obviously missing something.

Do you "suck" siphon or do you have a auto siphon?

Do you sanitize "ALL" your equipment? Come on , be honest

Sudster said:

Are you an "All Grainer" or an "Extracter". You definitly have a contamination
issue. Though you think your sanitizing you are obviously missing something.

Do you "suck" siphon or do you have a auto siphon?

Do you sanitize "ALL" your equipment? Come on , be honest

Click to expand...

I am ANAL about sanitation. The only thing I can think of is my plastic buckets need to be replaced? if that's the case now I'm even more worried cause I fermented my two stouts in the same bucket.

I have an auto-siphon. I'll replace hoses next time.
I'm an all-grainer. That shouldn't matter though.

Sorry to hear that Orrelse. Might be the 20 batch initiation you and I are hitting. I'm running into issues as well although not quite like yours. Got that Wit batch that refuses to finish fermenting and now that starter that burnt my gut isn't "starting". Was saved slurry, that may have been kaput.

Note to self - 2.5 month old saved slurry might be beyond shelf life...

If YOU are having this problem, then any of us can!

From what I've read, 'band-aid' taste is an over-sanititaion problem. What are you using for sanitation? Bleach, one-step, etc...? My guess is, you might need to replace the plastic items in your brewing arsenal.

I hope things work out - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

Sorry to read about your problem.

Go here: http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/flavor.shtml

See Phenolic.

Also check out the software downloads in the left column. There are 2 free downloadable games to play. I can't vouch for them, but they're there.

homebrewer_99 said:

Sorry to read about your problem.

Go here: http://www.mrgoodbeer.com/flavor.shtml

See Phenolic.

Also check out the software downloads in the left column. There are 2 free downloadable games to play. I can't vouch for them, but they're there.

Click to expand...

I looked it up in Palmer's "How to Brew" and I found this:

Medicinal
"These flavors are often described as mediciney, Band-Aid™ like, or can be spicy like cloves. The cause are various phenols which are initially produced by the yeast. Chlorophenols result from the reaction of chlorine-based sanitizers (bleach) with phenol compounds and have very low taste thresholds. Rinsing with boiled water after sanitizing is the best way to prevent these flavors."

So just curious-like, I checked the date on my yeast. IT WAS EXPIRED!!!!!!
I'm bombing my homebrew shop this week. If you read about it in the paper, don't tell anyone it was me!

I'm not 100% sure this was the cause, but it makes me seriously wonder. The real test is the 2 stouts I have going now. If they turn out okay then I'm blaming the expired yeast.

Rhoobarb said:

From what I've read, 'band-aid' taste is an over-sanititaion problem. What are you using for sanitation? Bleach, one-step, etc...? My guess is, you might need to replace the plastic items in your brewing arsenal.(

Click to expand...

I will definitely replace all the plastic. I use Iodophor solution, 1/4 teaspoon to every gallon of water.

ORRELSE said:

I am ANAL about sanitation. The only thing I can think of is my plastic buckets need to be replaced? if that's the case now I'm even more worried cause I fermented my two stouts in the same bucket.

I have an auto-siphon. I'll replace hoses next time.
I'm an all-grainer. That shouldn't matter though.

Click to expand...

The reason I ask if you were an AG'r is the fact that most AG'rs have two or three ball valves that over time will get gunky inside the housing. Do you run iodophor or starsan through your system periodically? Though if this were the source I would think you would have some indications in the secondaries.
If your anal about sanitation then I am suspecting its a source of contamination that you can't see..like the inside of your valves.

Sudster said:

The reason I ask if you were an AG'r is the fact that most AG'rs have two or three ball valves that over time will get gunky inside the housing. Do you run iodophor or starsan through your system periodically? Though if this were the source I would think you would have some indications in the secondaries.
If your anal about sanitation then I am suspecting its a source of contamination that you can't see..like the inside of your valves.

Click to expand...

Not sure on this, but I never sanitize my AG equipment (5 batches to date). Usually I just hose it out good after use. My assumption was after it's all said and done, I'm going to bull the &hit out of the wort for 75-90 minutes which I assumed would be fine. Curious on others and what you guys do.

desertBrew said:

Not sure on this, but I never sanitize my AG equipment (5 batches to date). Usually I just hose it out good after use. My assumption was after it's all said and done, I'm going to bull the &hit out of the wort for 75-90 minutes which I assumed would be fine. Curious on others and what you guys do.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's all I do too. There is no reason to sanitize the mash equipment cause the wort gets boiled.

I really do think the problem on the last Gravedigger batch was the expired yeast.

The Mex Blackbird batch was probably screwed by the keg having oxygen in it.

I am however, going to replace all my plastic brewing equipment. Buckets, hoses, etc.

I am at a loss. I've seen your process, and everything should be fine. What was the first batch you did with your CFC?

The only things I can think of are the CFC, your starter, and/or your kegs.

Didn't you have a huge foamover with the Gravedigger batch in question?

Last year, I had two batches that had a strong "Band-aid" and metalic taste. One was Pale Ale I, one was the Pilsner. My theories to the cause:

Sanitizing with Bleach, and not rinsing well enough. I finally started sanitizing with Starsan.

Green corrosion on my copper wort chiller. I soaked the thing in vinegar and water for an evening and the corrosion disappeared.

Other batches produced in the same time period didn't have the flavor, but they were Porters and Stouts. Lots of strong flavors to cover up mistakes there. The lighter beers let every mistake shine through.

I don't know what your problem might be. My suggestion would be to replace hoses and plastic like you mentioned. Also, check your chiller for contamination. Maybe run some vinegar/water solution through it to clean it up.

Good luck!

I had the same problem with a lager I did recently. Although after a month in the bottle it is barely noticable anymore. The comments about bleach causing it are interesting, I ran out of Onestep before doing that batch and used some old bleach I had sitting around and now I'm wondering if I rinsed well enough. The test will be when I uncap the second lager I did right after that, if it tastes the same then it's something with my stuff, if not i'll blame it on the bleach.

Over sanitation? Maybe the wrong choice of words. I don't think there is any such thing. From how you described it, I don't think this is a bleach/rinse issue. Sounds like classic sanitation shortfall. Spoiled batches happen. I'll repeat what most have said already plus some other stuff:

1) Replace every plastic hose. This includes blow off tubes, siphoning hoses, the works.

2) Ditch the plastic bucket. If you want to be sure, go with glass. If you want to roll the dice, you can get another plastic bucket, but I wouldn't recommend it. Your odds are better with glass - period.

3) Look at how you store your CF chiller. They never dry out on the inside. Moisture + Air + Time = Mold. For this reason, I store mine full of sanitizer at all times and cap the ends. No air, no oxygen, no mold. I drain it and fill with fresh sanitizer right before I use it, drain again, then chill, then flush it out and refill with sanitizer and cap the ends. If you have an all metal CFC and don't want to store it with sanitizer, I would flush it out and stick it in the oven for an hour or so to dry it out after you use it. In either case, it has to be completely dry, or completely devoid of air/oxygen when you store it.

4) How do you handle your starters? I've spoiled a batch or two by careless starter handling. I have started tasting the decanted liquid prior to pitching. It doesn't taste like beer, but if you've hosed the starter, you will be able to tell. If it tastes funky, don't pitch it. Try some dry yeast in a pinch.

Those are my top 4 picks for sanitation. If your starter actually fermented, I seriously doubt that expired yeast was the problem. This sounds like a clear sanitation issue somewhere along the line.

Prosit!

Thanks for all the tips guys.

TN, I'm definitely not buying plastic buckets anymore. 6.5 gallon carboy for me.

tnlandsailor said:

If your starter actually fermented, I seriously doubt that expired yeast was the problem. This sounds like a clear sanitation issue somewhere along the line.

Click to expand...

Come to think of it, I think that was one of the starters that didn't seem to do anything. I've brewed so much lately all these sessions are starting to meld together. I'm putting the blame on the expired yeast, and sticking to it.

orrelse, do you keep a brew log? every time i brew, i keep a detailed log from making my starter, until the day i taste the finished brew. it helps keep track of what you did or didn't do. especially if it's a repeat brew.

i clean/sanitize everything i use. i run sanitizer through all my kettles prior to brewing. i use pipe cleaner to clean my ball valves, then run sanitizer through those. everything i use gets cleaned and sanitized. may be overkill, but i haven't lost a batch to contamination in 5 years. it makes me sleep better :~)

good luck bru-bro!

DeRoux's Broux said:

orrelse, do you keep a brew log? every time i brew, i keep a detailed log from making my starter, until the day i taste the finished brew. it helps keep track of what you did or didn't do. especially if it's a repeat brew.

i clean/sanitize everything i use. i run sanitizer through all my kettles prior to brewing. i use pipe cleaner to clean my ball valves, then run sanitizer through those. everything i use gets cleaned and sanitized. may be overkill, but i haven't lost a batch to contamination in 5 years. it makes me sleep better :~)

good luck bru-bro!

Click to expand...

I made a pretty detailed spreadsheet and keep good brew session notes. The part I'm lame about is writing details in the spaces I provided....AFTER brew day.....

i figured you did take notes. your too hard core not too!

a good thingto have handy when you brew too is a squirt botle full of alcohol. spray into ball valves and fittings prior to opening. brewer @ Saint Arnold's told me that one.....

Dude said:

Yeah, that's all I do too. There is no reason to sanitize the mash equipment cause the wort gets boiled.

I really do think the problem on the last Gravedigger batch was the expired yeast.

The Mex Blackbird batch was probably screwed by the keg having oxygen in it.

I am however, going to replace all my plastic brewing equipment. Buckets, hoses, etc.

Click to expand...

Was it dry yeast? I've heard that all dry yeasts are infected to some degree with bacteria and/or wild yeasts. The wild yeasts can cause phenolic flavors.

I just sampled my first batch over the weekend (a Pale Ale), and it tastes good, though there is a definite "clove" flavor that is generally not accepted for the style. I wonder if the Cooper's Ale Yeast I used has some wild yeast in there, or maybe my batch got infected with some wild yeast.

For my next batch, I'm going to make the same recipe with Wyeast and see if it has the clove action again.

Does anyone know if high fermentation temps can cause phenols as well? I know it was riding in the high 70s for at least some of the time...

Did you ever figure out what was causing the problem, Dude? (note the age on the posts guys )

damn i was tricked...who dug up that old ass thread?, got me feeling sorry for dude and all!

Darth Konvel said:

Did you ever figure out what was causing the problem, Dude? (note the age on the posts guys )

Click to expand...

Nope...still blaming it on that old yeast and the plastic bucket. I don't use plastic anymore at all and haven't had a problem since. :rockin:

Bjorn Borg said:

damn i was tricked...who dug up that old ass thread?, got me feeling sorry for dude and all!

Click to expand...

Sorry... my fault. I did a search on "phenolic" and responded without looking at the date.

I guess that makes me a "noob," or whatever the fancy computer folk say.

:cross:

I'll check the date next time...

No worries about digging up old posts, although it's customary to do so with a warning or some flourish. Something along the lines of "Arise, thread off old, to do my bidding!" or something like that.

Darth Konvel said:

Did you ever figure out what was causing the problem, Dude? (note the age on the posts guys )

Click to expand...

The date? No kidding... Here I was thinking that he was having this problem, going into inaugural brew day with his new brew stand... lol

Dude said:

Nope...still blaming it on that old yeast and the plastic bucket. I don't use plastic anymore at all and haven't had a problem since. :rockin:

Click to expand...

So what happened to the LHBS owner?

calman said:

So what happened to the LHBS owner?

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I didn't hear anything in the news about it. However, Dude has probably been on every list the feds have ever since he made that post.