New all-grain system recommendations

Hi all,
i've been a 5-gal extract brewer for the past year and a half, and I'm ready to move to an all-grain setup.
I'd like to do an electric setup so I can brew in my basement (and thru the long cold MN winters).
I have a bad back so I'm thinking I need to do a horizontal system.
I'm thinking a recirculating mash system.
any recommendations on a system I could copy (build plans?)?. I'm an engineer so I'm pretty handy and plan to build the system myself (unless a used system is available at the right price!). A base system design would be best - something I could add features to in the future.
thanks much for the help. cheers! Randall

Explore the site for various brew sculpture builds. I think you'll find a lot of useful stuff in the DIY areas and in the articles section on builds that people have done. A horizontal build is fine but it will require a pump to move the liquids from one tank to the other. Your desire to go all electric has some limitations but people have done wonders adapting water heater heating elements to their builds. If you want to go all out, research some e-herms builds.

Have you checked out www.theelectricbrewery.com?

aiptasia said:

Explore the site for various brew sculpture builds. I think you'll find a lot of useful stuff in the DIY areas and in the articles section on builds that people have done. A horizontal build is fine but it will require a pump to move the liquids from one tank to the other. Your desire to go all electric has some limitations but people have done wonders adapting water heater heating elements to their builds. If you want to go all out, research some e-herms builds.

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thanks so much for this info. i'm wondering what those limitations are? anything major? I will look into e-herms. thanks!!!

fantastic suggestion on the electricbrewery - thanks!

I might have a line on three of these off of craiglist:

"15.5 gallon stainless steel keggle-Top cut to 11.5-12", sanded smooth, 7/8 " spigot hole drilled 3-4" above the skirting weld line and between vent holes, first acid wash done"

any reason why these wouldn't work for my system? - i'm wanting to brew 10-gallon batches and i'm a little concerned that 15.5 is not enough...???

You could do most beers in 15 gallon pots. Mashing a big 10 gallon barleywine in a keg might be a squeeze, never tried it, though you could supplement grain with some extract on really big beers.

+1 on theelectricbrewery.com. Kal has put together an excellent how to based on 20 gallon vessels. Modifying his design for a 10 gallon system should be fairly simple. There are user forums on the site to help.
I personally am building a 1bbl system based on Kal's design.

Do keep in mind the beer styles you want to brew when spec'ing the size of your system. As Grathan said: a 10 gallon batch of barleywine would be very hard to mash in a 15 gallon vessel.

Cheers! and good luck with your project.

slow progress on my setup, but I've got some decisions to make with the next steps. I've collected the 3 keggles, and thanks to the seller, he recommended a bottom draining mash tun which I went with. He also suggested a FB and tri-clamp assembly for the MT from brewhardware.com- that's all I have so far...
Next steps with my questions, order of how I complete doesn't really matter...
1 - stand / table. can I get away with a wooden structure? or should I seek out a SS table? If I can use a wooden structure, it will be easier to mount my inverted MT...
2 - pump(s). can I survive off one pump for a while, or should I just go for two?
3 - fittings. I've read different opinions on weldless, and welded. are weldless fittings worth the trouble? of should I pony up and get everything welded?
4 - keggle lids - ideas of where to buy two more?
5 - heating elements - do 120V versions exist with enough power for 10g brews? If I have to go with 240, i'll need to get my electrician out to run a new line from the panel.

a million more questions, but this is a good start. also, I have a 4" exhaust port right above my brew area, so it will be super easy to vent. got lucky there!

thanks much in advance! cheers!

1 - A wooden structure will be enough, provided you build it with the proper wood.
2 - You can survive with one pump, however, you'd be better with 2 as it will allow you to fly sparge and save a lot of connect/disconnects.
5 - you should definitely go 240 volts for 10 gal batches, there is no way you can get a satisfying boil with only 120v elements (unless you'd have like 4 of them from different receptacles) For 10 gals I would suggest a minimum of 4500watts but preferably 5500 watts.

good luck with your project. If you need any help with the electric side, PM me it will be a pleasure to help !


Cheers !

High Gravity Brewing have some nice all-electric systems. They also sell all of the components if want to build something piecemeal or integrate with existing equipment.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/prod...&resultCnt=150&order=1&Submit.x=42&Submit.y=7

1- Yes to wood.
2. I agree with Black - go with 2. You'll definitely find that recirculating water through your BK for strike water, and HLT (if you're going with a HERMS) is a must to prevent temperature stratification.
3. I'd go with weldless, unless you or someone you trust knows how to properly weld stainless. If you install weldless correctly (a bit of trial and error), you shouldn't have to touch them again.
5 - +1 to 240 (Black is spot-on). However, if you intend to go with a 50 AMP system, running 2X 5500W + pumps will draw too much. So, if you want to simultaneously heat water in two vessels, plan for 4500W. Plenty of power for 10 gal batches. It will just take a few minutes longer then running 5500W.

Good luck!

I have a 50 amp system and can run both 5500w elements and two pumps. Never had a problem.

BWN is completely right. Bad info on my part. I too am running 5500W elements in both tanks, two pumps, and a BCS460. I considered 6500W, but the math didn't pencil out. Good catch BWN.
P

Black said:

.....for 10 gal batches, there is no way you can get a satisfying boil with only 120v elements (unless you'd have like 4 of them from different receptacles) !

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Not true, two 2000w 120v elements will boil a ten gallon batch. You do need two 20 amp 120v GFI circuits.

Gotta pic? sounds kinda neat. Does the heater come on when mashing? What recirculates?

grathan said:

Gotta pic? sounds kinda neat. Does the heater come on when mashing? What recirculates?

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I've got a pic or two and a video on my cell phone, but I've never tried to transfer them to my computer. I'll give that a shot when I have the time.

The heating element is controlled by an Auber 2352 digital PID. When mashing, you set it to the temp you want and it heats the water to that temp. When the temp falls below the set value, it sends a DC signal to the SSR which in turn powers up the 120/240V contactor that activates the element in the keggle. The Chugger pump recirculates.

How does the bag stay off the element?

grathan said:

How does the bag stay off the element?

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I built a false bottom out of some sheet stainless (from one of the doors of the gas grill I got the chassis from ). Last week, however, I did a batch of pale ale without the false bottom and the element didn't hurt the bag at all. I get the water up to mash temp before installing the bag and the bag is hoisted out, of course, before the boil.

wilserbrewer said:

Not true, two 2000w 120v elements will boil a ten gallon batch. You do need two 20 amp 120v GFI circuits.

Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I thought he wanted to go with a single 120v element. Didn't think about using 2. You need to have 2 separate outlets, though.


Cheers !

to the OP, kinda late in on this, but if you check the sig of the B_K, he has a few ideas that might help you out if yuo still need it

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/2p-twent-e-new-brouwerij-boerderij-kabouter-160970/

question on pumps:
in-line vs. center? one better than the other?
chugger vs. march - Kal recommends the march 809, but the chuggers are cheaper - thoughts?

connections:
cam locks vs. quick disconnects - thought?

thanks!!!

Camlocks- over quick disconnect. Price being the main factor. ease of cleaning, and also seem easier to manipulate to make air-tight. Easier to find replacement gaskets.

Chugger stainless head seems easier to take apart and more durable and possiblly easier to keep impregnated bacteria out.

Inline vs Center Inlet? no idea, I wonder this same thing myself.

March or Chugger - both are basically the same design. Pretty sure that Chugger is the chinese knockoff. March is a US company. I purchased a couple of March 815's (larger impeller) and like them a lot. Not sure if you can still find 809's. Some will suggest the stainless head over polysulfonate, but the impeller and internal parts are still plastics, so what's the difference. The polysulfonate threads fine and is well built.

Cam-locks are wonderful. There are other qd's out there, but they don't save you much in terms of $$$ or convenience IMHO. Several vendors sell a cams in stainless and in various configurations. Tons of options.

progress on the rig over the past couple weeks.
here's what I've done:
built the rack, purchased the chugger (center-in) and cam lock fittings from brewhardware, purchased the two heating elements (per Kal). I also have my electrician set up to come and add the drop for 240V.
next steps:
weldless bulkhead fittings and ball valves for the HLT and BK, ball valve for MT, remaining cam locks, second pump. still need two extra lids for the keggles (ideas anyone?)
i already have a 4" vent hole directly above the rig - i was planning to use one of the in-line exhaust blowers. need some ideas on a vent hood. (the ones I see at my hardware store are 30/36" wide. i'm thinking custom but don't want to break the bank. (thoughts?).
with all of that, I'll start brewing. lots to learn and lots to add in the future, but this should be enough to get me moving... enjoy - and thanks for all of the help!!!

more progress. and a couple questions:
i've got my two heating elements (Camco 5500W 240VAC per Kal). i bought Bobby's (brewhardware.com) electrical housing kits for them.
i bought 4-wire 30A 240V dryer cords from the hardware store. should I ground the neutral along with the ground wire in the electrical housing? Kal's instructions use a 3-wire (10-3) cord.
also - anybody have a good thread on a simple control system to get started? i've been reading Kal's book, but don't want to build a full controller (with PIDs) yet (probably will in time, just need something to get me safely started).
thanks!
RA

appleton11 said:

more progress. and a couple questions:
i've got my two heating elements (Camco 5500W 240VAC per Kal). i bought Bobby's (brewhardware.com) electrical housing kits for them.
i bought 4-wire 30A 240V dryer cords from the hardware store. should I ground the neutral along with the ground wire in the electrical housing? Kal's instructions use a 3-wire (10-3) cord.
also - anybody have a good thread on a simple control system to get started? i've been reading Kal's book, but don't want to build a full controller (with PIDs) yet (probably will in time, just need something to get me safely started).
thanks!
RA

Click to expand...

If you plan on feeding 240v into your panel, and using neutral to derive 120v, then you want the 4-wire cable as your power input cable. You might also use them to and from a GFCI spa panel, if you use one. The elements use H-H-G, so a 3-wire cable makes more sense for those.

If you plan on getting to a full PID controller, my advice would be to plan that out and figure out what intermediate steps you can take. Otherwise, you will likely encounter rework and additional expense.

It's been a while since I last posted. Finally got the rig complete and had my first brew day yesterday.

Pictures in this set:
the rig, side view (you can sort of see my exhaust hood and ducting), filling the HLT thru an RV filter, HLT filling, heating strike water

pictures in this set:

MT, BK, Mashing (2 deg low on this first go...), Sparging, Hot break

Pictures in this post:

A vigorous boil!, inside the control panel (thanks Kal!), the control panel (no PIDs yet)

Very nice...
One day... One day.... Unfortunately, I am NOT an engineer. Fortunately for me, my Father in Law and Brother in law both are!

And Congrats btw!

That is quite a boil. Is that 5500w on 8 gallons?

I wonder if a boil like that will affect beers.

Automation! Brother, I am very excited for you... and a little jealous.

Yes it is grathan - I'm wondering the same thing. and it was actually only 7 gals as I could not do simple math at that point in the drinking / brewing day. lesson learned.

Are you powering the 5500W element to 100%? That'll of course give you a very vigorous boil with 7 gallons in the kettle, but shouldn't cause flavor issues so long as you clean the element well between batches.

With as much nice work as you've done thus far, why not go the extra step and add a PID controller? Being able to set and maintain a precise mash temp is lovely. Being able to adjust the level of power going to the element during the boil is great as well. Once I get to boiling, I reduce the power percentage (via the PID) to about 60-65%. If I see the need to boil off more liquid to get my target gravity, I can easily adjust for that.