Mash recipes and water calculations

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Patirck

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I am somewhat new to brewing and have made about 5 all grain batches so far. I use a 10 gallon igloo cooler MLT and recently bought a 11.5 gallon keggle. I make 5 gallon batches. I have had a somewhat hit and miss experience with all grain. My efficiencies have ranged from 50% to 88% but most have been in the high 60s to mid 70s.

My last batch was the first time I used my new keggle (not that it should matter much) and I ended up without enough wort. My preboil volume was off by about 1.25 gallons (5 gallons instead of 6.25).

I was hoping to get some insight on two things - how do I calculate much water to use and what guidelines are there for mash temps and times when you are creating your own recipe or using an existing ingredient list?

How much water do I need to end up with 5.0 - 5.5 gallons of chilled wort in the fermenter? My last batch was 8.25 pounds of grist. So I figured:

5.0 gallons (what I want to end up with)
1.25 gallons boil off
1 gallon for grain absorbtion
.5 gallon left over in the MLT and keggle (what won't drain)

This adds up to 7.75 gallons which I rounded to 8. I was creating my recipe so I decided to mash at 152* for 60 min. I started with 5 gallons and figured I would sparge with 3. Somehow I ended up with only 5 gallons of wort preboil. Did I miss something? If this happens in the future, should I quickly heat up another gallon or two of water and do a second sparge?

When creating your own recipe like this how should I figure out mash temps and times? Based on some instructions with the few recipes I've used in the past I aimed for a mash temp of 152 for 60 min, then I add sparge water for 20 min. Is this something I should use for pretty much everthing? I made a belgian triple (karmeleit klone) that mashed for 90 minutes and boiled for 90 minutes. Does this depend on the grains used?

Just looking for some insight as I start to create my own recipes.
 
You can figure that each pound of grain will absorb .2 gallons of water. Thus your 8.25 lbs of grain soaked up more than the 1lb you accounted for.

So if you know you lose .2gal per pound, that helps.
I then suggest you choose a strike water volume based on quarts per pound of grain. You'll get a lot of feedback on that, but you'll find 1.25qt/lb is the usual low-range, and probably 1.75qt/lb is the upper range.

I find myself around 1.3 to 1.5qt/lb for strike water depending on the recipe.

So you know you have X quarts going in, and X minus Y (grain loss) coming out. The sparge won't be lost to grain absorption, so for sparging Z going in = Z coming back out.

In my setup (again, this is just for an example) I usually get about 40% of my wort from the initial mash, and then I double batch sparge to get the remaining 60% volume (and sugars).

If you own a refractometer you can get a preboil OG really easy at this point and if you're over gravity, but too low on volume...add water, then boil.

It does take time to dial in your gear's dead space in the tun...and doing stuff like adding oatmeal or lots of hops will cause more liquid loss.
 
So based on that I should figure:

8.25 x .2 = 1.7 gallons lost to grain absorbtion
8.25 x 1.5 = 12.375 qt = 3.1 gallons for strike water volume

So my initial water volume would be 1.7 + 3.1 = 4.8 gallons at dough in?

I would expect 3.1 gallons of wort out of this so if I wanted to end up with 5.5 gallons pre boil, I would add 2.4 gallons for sparge. Correct?

I am not accounting for wort loss for what doesn't drain out of the mlt but that shouldn't happen twice so I just take 5.5 and subtract what I got from initial mash to know what to add during sparge?
 
So based on that I should figure:

8.25 x .2 = 1.7 gallons lost to grain absorbtion
8.25 x 1.5 = 12.375 qt = 3.1 gallons for strike water volume

So my initial water volume would be 1.7 + 3.1 = 4.8 gallons at dough in?

I would expect 3.1 gallons of wort out of this so if I wanted to end up with 5.5 gallons pre boil, I would add 2.4 gallons for sparge. Correct?

I am not accounting for wort loss for what doesn't drain out of the mlt but that shouldn't happen twice so I just take 5.5 and subtract what I got from initial mash to know what to add during sparge?

When you dough in, you still use your 1.5 quarts per pound (or whatever your amount is- some like 1.25 quarts per pound). So, if I was doing an 8.25 pound batch, I'd strike with 12.375 quarts. You don't add more to account for absorption. Just add the strike water.

For the first few batches, I'd then drain my MLT and see what I lost to the false bottom, and absorption. In my case, it's closer to .1 gallons per pound of grain. So, I'd probably lose just about a gallon of those 12.375 quarts. So, I'd get out 2 gallons.

Because I got 2 gallons out of my first runnings, I'd sparge with a total of 4.5 gallons to get to my boil volume of 6.5 gallons. It's easier to "work backwards" to get to your boil volume.

Boil volume = first runnings + sparge water
So, if you know your desired boil volume, and you know the volume of the first runnings, you can just use that much sparge water. Of course, this is easy with batch sparging! If you're fly sparging, you'll have to sort of do the same thing, but stop when you get to your boil volume.

Your boil volume should be whatever you need to start with to end up with 5 gallons (desired batch size). If you boil off more than I do, or less, you will learn how much you should boil to get your desired amount in the fermenter. Most people start with about 6.5 gallons to end up with 5 gallons.

As far as recipes, mash temps are decided by how fermentable you want your beer. For a "thick" rich full bodied beer, you'd want to mash at 156 or 158. For a thin, light bodied beer, you'd want to mash at 149 or 150. Higher mash temperatures favor alpha amylase, giving you a less fermentable wort and a higher FG in the end. Lower mash temperatures favor beta amylase, giving you a slightly lower FG in the end. Of course, there is some overlap. I find that I like many of my APAs and ambers at 153-154. Stouts and porters I like to mash higher, and my Dead Guy clone I mash at 156! For a cream ale, I've mashed at 149 to get it to finish with a low FG and pretty dry.

As far as mash time, you only have to mash long enough to get conversion. That can happen in as little as 20 minutes or so, or as long as 40 or even longer. Most brewers have found that doing a 60 minute mash ensures conversion without having to do a starch conversion test, so it's routinely done.

I've never seen sparge instructions like "sparge for 20 minutes", so I don't know how to answer that question.
 
Thanks for the response. That makes sense to me in terms of water volume.

For mash time, unless there is a way to test for sugar conversion, I guess I'll stick to 60 minutes. Is it possible to mash for too long a period of time in an igloo cooler mlt? I could see burning stuff if you had a flame under it but without the flame, I don't know how I could mash too long...

So from what I gather, higher gravity should mash at lower temperatures to get all the sugars out.
 
So from what I gather, higher gravity should mash at lower temperatures to get all the sugars out.

Well, no. The starches will convert in a somewhat narrow temperature range- say, 146-160. But you want to mash at a temperture that will give you the qualities you want. For most beers, you will probably want to mash at 152-154. If you know what style you want to make and the ingredients you will use, that helps when you choose a mash temp. A mash temp can be considered part of the ingredients, in that way- it brings certain qualities to your wort. However, if you just want to be safe, a mash temp of 152 for one hour would work for most beers.
 
Is there some sort of guidline for what kinds of fermentables give what kinds of qualities for higher or lower temperatures and/or longer or shorter mash times?

It is probably not that important in the scheme of my homebrewing experience but if I was making a hef with 60% wheat, 35% 2 row, and 5% specialty of some type, I would probably mash at 154 for 60 min. What would make me mash at a higher or lower temperature and/or for a longer or shorter period of time?
 
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