What would be a good dry yeast for a Milk Stout?

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snailsongs

snailsongs

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Here's my recipe, borrowed and modified form Jamil' Z (I'm going to add a few bourbon soaked oak-chips to half the batch):

two questions:

what would be a good dry yeast for this beer?

Would it be better to mash at a moderately high temp to keep a bit of sweetness (like 154-155F)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.0 %
1.00 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 6.0 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 0.0 %


Est Original Gravity: 1.061 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
Bitterness: 25.1 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 49.7 SRM Color: Color


thanks!
 
I think a liquid is best for this recipe, but if dry, go Nottinghams or US-04.
Yes, mash at 155 or 156. YUMMY!!!
 
This might even be a grain bill that I would almost consider using Windsor instead of S-04.

I'd mash lower with Windsor that S-04 though...
 
S-04 goes in my sweet stout. Not looking for a whole lot of out of the yeast here. Except to attenuate to a certain percentage. Let the malt shine!
 
S-04 would work. I think I disagree with using an even- or under-attenuating yeast, though. Follow my logic.

If you're already mashing high, you're providing plenty of dextrins. Then you're adding a full pound of unfermentable sugar in the lactose. Then you're going to use an under-attenuating yeast.

That's not a sequence that gives me confidence you'll end up with beer; that's a recipe for syrup. Might go really well on pancakes, but in a pint glass? I dunno! ;)

I kid, I kid - but only half.

I think I'd use a neutral, solid attenuator like Nottingham or even US-05 for this beer. Get every last fermentable molecule accounted for, to let the dextrins and lactose shine through. YMMV.

One other thought: Are you seriously using more Black Patent than roasted barley? That's a whole crap-ton of Black Patent, more than I'd ever advise anyone to use in a 5-gallon grist of any type. I'd drop the BP entirely, kick the Roasted Barley up to a full pound, and leave the Chocolate where it is. Leave the Black Patent where it is, and you'll end up with a black beer that'll take years to mellow.

That's my tuppence ha'penny!

Bob
 
I made that exact same recipe (Jamil's) back in December and used S-04. It came out great. I also mashed at 151F. My FG was right where I wanted it: 1.023. I find that S-04 is not as low of an attenuating yeast as some people think (not to the extent of some of the other English yeasts). It will ferment beers fairly dry and even more so if you can ramp the temp up a bit at the end of fermentation.

Anyway, I think S-04 is a great choice, I like it in (almost) all the darker English style beers I make. It is also great because this yeast will drop hard and fast leaving you a crystal clear (if you can see through it) beer in matter of a couple weeks.

NQ3X said:
One other thought: Are you seriously using more Black Patent than roasted barley? That's a whole crap-ton of Black Patent, more than I'd ever advise anyone to use in a 5-gallon grist of any type. I'd drop the BP entirely, kick the Roasted Barley up to a full pound, and leave the Chocolate where it is. Leave the Black Patent where it is, and you'll end up with a black beer that'll take years to mellow.
Click to expand...

I was also skeptical when I saw it to begin with. But, when I brew a style for the first time I try to brew it as written and indeed this beer came out great. I have compared it with some of the classic examples of this style and it stacks pretty well. Yeah, it was a bit harsh for a couple weeks after brewing but that BP character dropped off fast.
 
mmb said:
This might even be a grain bill that I would almost consider using Windsor instead of S-04.

I'd mash lower with Windsor that S-04 though...
Click to expand...
This, Nottingham would go far too dry. I recently did a cream stout with S-04, mashed at 159 and put 1lb of lactose in ten gallons and it finished at 1.022...it's really fantastic.
 
I just made mine with S-33. When fermented at the low to middle end of it's range I find this yeast to be really neutral. Higher and it starts to throw out some fruit but, I haven't found it to be as severe in the fruit as some have.
 
I think I disagree with using an even- or under-attenuating yeast, though. Follow my logic.

If you're already mashing high, you're providing plenty of dextrins. Then you're adding a full pound of unfermentable sugar in the lactose. Then you're going to use an under-attenuating yeast.

That's not a sequence that gives me confidence you'll end up with beer; that's a recipe for syrup. Might go really well on pancakes, but in a pint glass? I dunno!
Click to expand...
I think I did just this recently with my Oatmeal Stout but maybe not...my FG seemed too high though.

FWIW, I used this recipe (for a 6 gal. batch):
8# Maris Otter
1# Roasted Barley
1# Crystal 60L
1# Flaked Oats
.25# Molasses

1 vial White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale yeast (69%-74% AA) in 1 qt. starter

I got 1.054 OG @ 6 gal. and the FG was 1.017. That's only about 69% AA.

I'm not familiar with sweet stouts but that seemed too high of a FG. I think it was a combination of too much Crystal, mashing too high, and the low-ish attenuating yeast. It actually tastes pretty good (just kegged it so haven't tasted the final product yet) but it's not dry by any stretch of the imagination (then again it wasn't supposed to be dry). I def don't think it needs any lactose.
 
NQ3X said:
S-04 would work. I think I disagree with using an even- or under-attenuating yeast, though. Follow my logic.

If you're already mashing high, you're providing plenty of dextrins. Then you're adding a full pound of unfermentable sugar in the lactose. Then you're going to use an under-attenuating yeast.

That's not a sequence that gives me confidence you'll end up with beer; that's a recipe for syrup. Might go really well on pancakes, but in a pint glass? I dunno! ;)

I kid, I kid - but only half.

I think I'd use a neutral, solid attenuator like Nottingham or even US-05 for this beer. Get every last fermentable molecule accounted for, to let the dextrins and lactose shine through. YMMV.

One other thought: Are you seriously using more Black Patent than roasted barley? That's a whole crap-ton of Black Patent, more than I'd ever advise anyone to use in a 5-gallon grist of any type. I'd drop the BP entirely, kick the Roasted Barley up to a full pound, and leave the Chocolate where it is. Leave the Black Patent where it is, and you'll end up with a black beer that'll take years to mellow.

That's my tuppence ha'penny!

Bob
Click to expand...

I completely follow your logic on this first point, and I was pondering that myself: it's kind of why I asked this question, because I know that dry yeasts tend to be more limited to different attenuations, and I wouldn't get a bunch of non-answers about flavor profiles of different yeasts. I was thinking about s-05 to ensure it's not too sweet, but I'm just not sure. Maybe I'll split it between S-05 and S-04...

The black patent issue: This is a can of worms around here. I have not made enough stouts to even be able to tell roasted barley from black patent in taste.....could you give a brief general outline of the flavor characteristics of each? The only other reason I'm tempted to leave it is just because Jamil says so.....he's never steered me wrong so far, and it sounds like other people have had success with this same recipe (his recipe actually has zero RB in it, I added the .25 lb for kicks)....I'd love to hear a breakdown of BP and RB......
 
To my palate,

RB has a hint of caramel and raisin with very subtle mocha java undertones.

whereas

BP tastes like burnt toast mixed with a Espresso bean.

YPMV
 
what if I did .5 lb of each RB and BP? would that be a best of both worlds compromise or would it just muddle the best characteristics of each?
 
To answer your previous question, I find RB to be bitter, but in a way strong black coffee is bitter, not like hops are bitter, and it's a smooth bitterness; biting into a kernel gives a broad spectrum of roasted flavors. BP, on the other hand, is phenolic, burnt, charred; biting into a kernel makes one's mouth feel almost ashy.

Together, I should think a certain synergy would be accomplished.

If JZ specifies BP, then use it, I say. He's always got a reason.

Cheers!

Bob
 
I dunno NQ3X. I mean I have much respect for JZ and the man does win awards for everything he makes but, I much prefer the synergy of RB and Choc in Stouts. In the right proportions I think they are the perfect compliment.

But then, I have started with a 1 pound sack of BP nearly two years ago. I think I still have 9 or 10 ounces of it left (Time to let it go eh). I just don;t find much use for it in my brewery except for some very small additions to give some drastic color.

However, I do know that variation on the style do require using BP and not Choc. I forget which.

IIRC, it's the Dry Stout that the BP is necessary to avoid any sweet undertones that Choc may impart.
 
I don't disagree, Gila. In fact, I feel BP has no place at all in stout, save in small quantities in RIS. But, as I wrote before, if The Great JZ specifies it, he must have an excellent reason. [shrug] YMMV, no? ;)

Bob
 
So I brewed this this morning.....I decided to use .5lb each of BP and RB. I also decided to go with Nottingham over S-04, because it's easier to fix "not sweet enough" than it is to fix "too sweet", right?

(......also added about 1/5th lb of malto-dextrin to ensure a good chewiness - though in this amount, it may not even do much of anything, just erring on the conservative side.)
 
NQ3X said:
I don't disagree, Gila. In fact, I feel BP has no place at all in stout, save in small quantities in RIS. But, as I wrote before, if The Great JZ specifies it, he must have an excellent reason. [shrug] YMMV, no? ;)

Bob
Click to expand...

I'll add to that. I hate BP in stouts. In fact, I go with chocolate and carafa III in mine. Makes for an incredibly smooth stout.
 

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