New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
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What about with distilled water? Is there an advantage to using RO over distilled?
OP
OP
Here is a thought - could you add less CaCl and gypsum to the mash - this would increase your mash pH without needing to use baking soda at all. Then, take the minerals you are no longer adding to the mash, and just throw them in the boil kettle.
One of the reasons I use a bit of epsom and salt is that it is a way to get sulfate and chloride without any calcium. I also think some sodium rounds out the feel of the beer a bit.
OP
OP
Not if you are trying to increase the pH up.....
In my opinion there is zero advantage to distilled water over RO - just costs more.
I'm new to the water chemistry aspect of brewing. Is getting the pH dialed in the primary concern for the mash? And then having the minerals dialed in for the boil?
OP
OP
Yes - pH is #1
From there the various minerals can add to/ take away from various aspects of the beers flavor and perception. Minor changes will probably be imperceptible. However, major shifts can give the same beer a different flavor/feel.
Is there anything wrong with not adding any minerals during the mash and just using acid to reduce the pH for the mash. And then add all the minerals during the boil?
OP
OP
nope - that is fine too. The only "real" purpose of the minerals in the mash for the most part is in regard to pH. putting the minerals in the kettle in the way of flavor should be perfectly fine I would think.... I have not done it that way, so I can't say for sure..... but i see no major theoretical reason it would not work out.
I may have you confused with someone else, but if you are using RO water, then you have as close to no minerals at all in your water as it is possible for us simple mortals to get. If so, then I think you need to target a water profile of some sort.
And, if I can add to the confusion: If you are using RO water, the pH of that water is probably close to or the same as the pH of the tap water you used to make the RO water.
However, and this is where I get even more confused, the pH of your RO water really does not matter anyway, because of the lack of bufffers in your water. At this point I've stepped over the line of my knowledge, and I cannot explain that at all. Would love it if someone else could and would.
OP
OP
I am in the process of putting together a "what do I do if I don't do water chemistry" profile. I will get it together in the next couple hours and post to bottom of original recipe - it will just be a "start with 100% RO" and then I will show some general additions in both grams/gallon and tsp/gallon so that people have at least somewhere to start that will be simple and straight forward.
Why are you utilizing these measurements for this style? Thoughts?
Well the water chemistry primer sets you up using RO water with equal additions of chloride and sulfate salts. (1tsp of each salt as its base suggestion)
For this particular sub style of IPA, you want a higher chloride level than has been typically considered so add some more chloride, 50-100% more is going to get you in the ball park.
You can also potentially cut back on the sulfate by dropping the gypsum level.
Given that the water primer is discussing say additions by the teaspoon this is about the level of adjustment you can shoot for.
For this particular sub style of IPA, you want a higher chloride level than has been typically considered so add some more chloride, 50-100% more is going to get you in the ball park.
You can also potentially cut back on the sulfate by dropping the gypsum level.
Given that the water primer is discussing say additions by the teaspoon this is about the level of adjustment you can shoot for.
OP
OP
I have now updated the original recipe with a general guide to water if you don't want to mess with B'run water or don't know your profile. It is in the ballpark of what PeteNMA suggested as well. Basically, you want a 2:1 chloride: sulfate ratio. about 1 to 1/2 teaspoon ration of CaCl to Gypsum to 100% RO water will get you in the ballpark and you can go from there as far as tweaking it to your taste.
Braufessor: Any suggestions for getting this recipe up to around 6.5-7.5%? Your finished product looks beautiful but I like my IPAs a little bigger. I suppose I could just add some Dextrose, but wondering if you've experiemented with increasing any of the grain bill. Would the water profile stay the same, or would I need to increase any of the additions (assuming starting with 100% RO)?
Thanks!
Thanks!
OP
OP
Yep - just add 1-2lbs of base malt or throw in a pound of light DME. I would not use dextrose personally as that will dry the beer out which is kind of counter to what you are trying to do with a beer like this.
Braufessor,
Do standard clearing techniques (Irish Moss, cold crash with gelatin, or what have you?) work with a brew like this? If so, how is flavor and mouth feel affected?
Do standard clearing techniques (Irish Moss, cold crash with gelatin, or what have you?) work with a brew like this? If so, how is flavor and mouth feel affected?
OP
OP
I generally throw some irish moss in toward the end of the boil.... probably out of habit more than anything. Irish Moss does not turn this into a clear beer, that is for sure.
I have done some cold crashing from time to time at the end of primary.... my main goal when I have done that was to help drop out some of the yeast and hop particulate before transferring to my dry hopping keg. To be honest, I have not done that a lot and could not say for sure what the real effect was on flavor/mouthfeel. Not substantial that I recall.
I have never used gelatin in this type of beer..... primarily because I am not trying to clear a beer like this. The haziness is part of what it is. I do think gelatin could clear the beer probably..... I do think it might lessen some of the hop flavor and aroma. But, I can't say for sure.
Every batch I've done similar to this has been privy to whirlfloc and a cold crash and it some how still ends up kind of hazy (which I'm okay with).
I feel like there should be a new official style for Unfiltered Pale Ales and Unfiltered IPA.
Anyone on here brewing tomorrow?
I feel like there should be a new official style for Unfiltered Pale Ales and Unfiltered IPA.
Anyone on here brewing tomorrow?
Nope, but Sunday I am trying a Breaking Bud clone. I will probably use Braufessor's water profile.
I may attempt this style this weekend if my LHBS has all the grains, yeast and minerals. I got the hops already. 1# Citra, 1# Mosaic and 0.5# Galaxy. Just need to come up with a hop schedule. Was going to do a starter from a few Julius cans but that didn't happen. I'll probably use 1318 since my LHBS doesn't carry Conan.
OP
OP
yep - but brewing a British Dark Mild...... actually, probably the one beer i have actually brewed more than this one
Probably brew another IPA on Sunday though
surgical_ass
Well-Known Member
Have these numbers been tried yet?
surgical_ass
Well-Known Member
Yea your numbers. Was wondering if the op had tried it with his recipe.
OP
OP
I personally have not tried these numbers..... I will make a point of doing it this week though. I have a couple of my normal recipes in fermenters, so I have room to play around a little. I will check it out and see how it compares.
I harvested yeast from 3 cans of Heady watching my Pats lose yesterday.
How many times do I need to ramp up the yeast before it is ready to pitch in a 5 gallon batch? (Starter: 1/2 cup dme - 2 cups water)
How many times do I need to ramp up the yeast before it is ready to pitch in a 5 gallon batch? (Starter: 1/2 cup dme - 2 cups water)
mbbransc
Well-Known Member
I don't recall where I read it (Yeast book, maybe), but I generally step up my starters by x10. Harvesting from a can, I usually use a 4oz starter of about 1.020 wort. Then step it up x10, 40oz starter (usually increasing gravity too, 1.030ish). From there, I usually step it up to whatever I need to pitch, plus about 4-6oz to save for future starters.
OP
OP
I guess I would do everything the same - first dry hop in the primary at day 5 or so. Let it go to day 12 maybe just like normal.
At that point, what I might try is this:
*Day 12 add final dry hop in a boiled muslin bag to primary fermenter
*Place fermenter up on counter - so that you don't need to disturb it when it comes time to transfer for bottling.
*Day 14 boil up priming sugar solution ( I use to use about 2/3 cup or a touch less for 5 gallons to get lower carb)
*Pour priming sugar solution into sanitized bottling bucket
* Transfer beer onto priming sugar to aid in mixing. Stir lightly with sanitized spoon to mix as it is transferrring
* Bottle as normal.
Another possibility would be to use a bottling bucket as a primary fermenter, do all the hopping in the primary and then cold crash the primary for a couple days - bottle directly from the bottling bucket/primary fermenter using the priming tablets. This would eliminate some of the steps where oxygen pickup is most likely.
I guess (to me) the only real differences would be finding a way to minimize oxygen pickup (easier to do with kegs than bottles) and also Carbonation (you want it a touch on the low side in my opinion).
If you are using muslin bags to contain the hops - which might be more necessary with bottling - use big bags, or multiple bags so the hops don't just swell up into a solid golfball or baseball - you want them as lose as possible and exposed surface area.
At that point, what I might try is this:
*Day 12 add final dry hop in a boiled muslin bag to primary fermenter
*Place fermenter up on counter - so that you don't need to disturb it when it comes time to transfer for bottling.
*Day 14 boil up priming sugar solution ( I use to use about 2/3 cup or a touch less for 5 gallons to get lower carb)
*Pour priming sugar solution into sanitized bottling bucket
* Transfer beer onto priming sugar to aid in mixing. Stir lightly with sanitized spoon to mix as it is transferrring
* Bottle as normal.
Another possibility would be to use a bottling bucket as a primary fermenter, do all the hopping in the primary and then cold crash the primary for a couple days - bottle directly from the bottling bucket/primary fermenter using the priming tablets. This would eliminate some of the steps where oxygen pickup is most likely.
I guess (to me) the only real differences would be finding a way to minimize oxygen pickup (easier to do with kegs than bottles) and also Carbonation (you want it a touch on the low side in my opinion).
If you are using muslin bags to contain the hops - which might be more necessary with bottling - use big bags, or multiple bags so the hops don't just swell up into a solid golfball or baseball - you want them as lose as possible and exposed surface area.
will dry hop #1 be ok for 9 days (day 5 to day 14) in primary?
Took a shot at this today:
Batch size 5.5 gal
O.G. 1.059
5.5 lb 2-row
5.5 lb Maris Otter
0.5 lb Flaked barley
0.5 lb Flaked wheat
0.25 lb Honey malt
0.25 lb C60
0.75 oz Warrior (60 min)
1.5 oz Ella (flameout)
1.5 oz Columbus (flameout)
1.5 oz Ella (steep 30 min)
1.5 oz Columbus (steep 30 min)
1.5 oz Ella (dry hop 7 days)
1.5 oz Columbus (dry hop 7 days)
1.5 oz Ella (dry hop 3 days)
1.5 oz Columbus (dry hop 3 days)
Pitched 50 mL Conan @ 62F
Although I managed to get 78% mash efficiency on this one I am positive I could have done better. I think if I attempt this again I'm going to cut the wheat and C60, substitute for Munich or Vienna, and use a double decoction (145-156-168).
Wort smells fantastic though. There's a lot of hoppy goodness coming through already.
Batch size 5.5 gal
O.G. 1.059
5.5 lb 2-row
5.5 lb Maris Otter
0.5 lb Flaked barley
0.5 lb Flaked wheat
0.25 lb Honey malt
0.25 lb C60
0.75 oz Warrior (60 min)
1.5 oz Ella (flameout)
1.5 oz Columbus (flameout)
1.5 oz Ella (steep 30 min)
1.5 oz Columbus (steep 30 min)
1.5 oz Ella (dry hop 7 days)
1.5 oz Columbus (dry hop 7 days)
1.5 oz Ella (dry hop 3 days)
1.5 oz Columbus (dry hop 3 days)
Pitched 50 mL Conan @ 62F
Although I managed to get 78% mash efficiency on this one I am positive I could have done better. I think if I attempt this again I'm going to cut the wheat and C60, substitute for Munich or Vienna, and use a double decoction (145-156-168).
Wort smells fantastic though. There's a lot of hoppy goodness coming through already.
Wheat usually hits my efficiency as I don't bother adjusting my mill for it, I just run it through twice. My mill is set tight enough that the wheat gets some milling, but not to the same extent as the barley
OP
OP
Looks good - I have not tried this beer with columbus, but have always like the hop. I have to admit I have never even heard of Ella. You will have to let us know how it comes out for you.
I actually bought half a pound of Ella to fill out an order recently. The description makes it sound great. Smash coming up.
I love Columbus as a late hop, if you're getting it from a good vendor it has all kinds of fruity flavours as well as a bit of dank. It's delicious
I love Columbus as a late hop, if you're getting it from a good vendor it has all kinds of fruity flavours as well as a bit of dank. It's delicious
OP
OP
Sure. In my experience, there seems to be more to be gained by getting that first dry hop in before primary fermentation is quite complete. I think doing so keeps a control on one step where oxygen can be a problem. Any time you dry hop, you are potentially introducing oxygen - especially if you don't have a means of purging kegs and fermenters with CO2 like those who keg.
Getting that first dry hop in while the yeast still has a day or two of fermenting allows it to savage some of the O2 you may introduce and also push more out with the production of CO2.
I tend to make the second dry hop short - just 2 days.
What do you think of an Amarillo/Galaxy combo? I'm trying to avoid that oniony flavor that some associate with Mosiac. I had a Trillium Fort Point with Mosaic last week and it had that flavor I didn't like. Their all?-Galaxy Congress Street IPA was delicious though!
