Looking for input on pale ale recipe

After trying many other recipes and all-grain kits I decided to see what I have left in my grain inventory and came up with this Pale Ale recipe. Can anyone give me input on things I might alter? It will be a 4 gallon all grain recipe at about 70-75% efficiency. I have more Vienna malt, Crystal 20L and Munich Malt if that would help.

Thanks,

Mick

My First Pale Ale Recipe (4 gallon)
6 lb. Pale Malt 2-Row
1 lb. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Munich Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 20L

0.75 oz Cascade – 60 min (6.1%) 20.2 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade – 45 min (6.1%) 18.5 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade – 15 min (6.1%) 3.3 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade – 5 min (6.1%) 1.3 IBU

1 pack US-05 dry yeast

Single Infusion Medium Body, Batch Sparge
5.9 SRM 43 IBU 5% estimate ABV

Very similar to Ed's Haus Pale Ale. It should be a great beer. Let us know how it turns out.

I thought about using either his recipe or the one from beersmith but these seem to have a darker color and my swmbo who wants the pale ale made would like to see a lighter color and clearer beer than what I would in the past. Thus, I tried lowering the concentration of the Vienna and Munich malts compared to the amount of 2 row and I don't know how this will affect the taste of the beer.

Thus, I should have directed my initial question more along these lines.

I also left out the dry hopping I have seen in other recipes because I am not sure of how this will affect the taste and aroma. I have not yet tried dry hopping yet.

there is a typo in my original post "I have left in my grain inventory and came up with this Pale Ale recipe" should have read "came across" this recipe. Danger of trying to type, comfort an unhappy ahppy and have a converstaion at the same time.

This looks tasty to me. It will be a hoppy pale ale. I like it hoppy.
I was playing with it on Beersmith, and at first I upped the Munich and crystal to a full pound each, but then I read that you want a lighter pale ale. I pulled them both back down to half a pound, and raised the 2-row to 7 pounds. That will keep it light in color, boost the ABV to just over 5%, but more importantly, it will balance the malt/hops.
Another way to balance it (if that is what you want) would be to use 1oz Cascade@60, .25oz@20, and .25@10 or 5. That will save you a half ounce of hops for another beer.

I would like to hear what you choose and how this turns out.
Ean

you're looking at 90% efficiency to get this recipe to 5%. i might bump it to 8 lbs 2-row (i did when i made this recipe, except i used s-04). if you get it to 90%, PLEASE let me know what you're doing :fro:

Thanks for letting me know about raising the amount to 2 row in order to balance the malt/hops ratio and for tweaking the amount of hops to try to save some for another batch. My swmbo likes the beers hoppy at times and this is a thank you brew for all the work she has done since our first child was born 3 months ago. I have been looking at various recipes and trying to match the ingredienst with what I have left in the closet and trying to play with beersmith to get something that is very different than BMC type beers I have been asked to make in the past.

I may have not made it clear that this is a 4 gallon not 5 gallon recipe and thus the efficiency should still be in the 70% range. If I could ever achieve 90% efficiency on a consistent basis I would quit my teaching job and drink beer for a living.

I would consider a larger bittering charge and moving the 45 min addition to 30. I don't know how much flavor/aroma you will get from a 45 min addition vs. a 30, and more at 60 gives you the correct amount of bitterness.

Also, I wonder if you have too much vienna and munich malts, I just think that would be too bready and malty for me when I have a hankering for an APA.

lumpher said:

you're looking at 90% efficiency to get this recipe to 5%. i might bump it to 8 lbs 2-row (i did when i made this recipe, except i used s-04). if you get it to 90%, PLEASE let me know what you're doing :fro:

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Ah! You made me look at the recipe again. My calculations were wrong. I had my efficiency set at 65%.
The recipe is for 4 gallons. The original recipe will be perfect at 75% efficiency.

How does this modified version look? I am hoping to get this done this weekend before having to go back to work full time next week to prepare for fall term.

Modified Pale Ale Recipe (4 gallon)
7 lb. Pale Malt 2-Row
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Munich Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 20L

1.0 oz Cascade – 60 min (6.1%) 26.1 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade – 20 min (6.1%) 7.9 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade – 10 min (6.1%) 4.9 IBU

1 pack US-05 dry yeast

estimated SRM 6.0, 5.2% ABV and IBU 38.8

Is an IBU/SG of 0.672 a good ratio? I am not familiar with this type of ratio yet.

Forgot to mention that I will be kegging this beer so maybe a slightly lower IBU than 44 might be appropriate for guests to drink.

I use the ratio all the time, and I tend to like it around.770 to .870 as a general rule of thumb. It might be high for a stout or a porter, but it's nice in a pale ale. You should plug in your old recipes to Beersmith and see where the ratios fall. It is interesting. I let it be a guide, but I have to be careful to not let the ratio overrule a recipe or style.

I feel guilty for making the mistake in my calculations. I like your original recipe more. The ratio is around .790, and the ABV is around 5.08%. I think you will really like it.

Oh, in that case, you might want to go with the second version.

Anyone know at what point/time during the boil will Cascade hops go from a bittering use to a more aroma use? I have not yet made something with this high of an IBU profile before and thus I am not sure of what to expect. Hence, this si why I am only trying to make 4 gallons and not something larger, plus the extra brew bucket is a 5 gallon HDPE2 from Wally world. My two 6.5 gallons are already in use as well as the 7.9 gallon monster. I am tryning to create 4 different beers for my first effort into the keezer. I would like for these to be ready in 2 months when we have our open house for some friends to meet the baby. Our first open house was cancelled due to the baby arriving 3 weeks early. guess he was thirsty.

Thanks for everyone's input.

I don't know if I explained the ratio very well. It is a ration of sweetness to bitterness. You can look it up online for better explanations than i can give. Basically if you raise the gravity, you can raise the IBUs and keep the ratio in the same range. If you lower the gravity, you might lower the IBUs and you will still have a similar ratio. I still don't think I can explain it.

It has been explained to me that you want to use use bittering hops at 60 minutes, and flavoring hops around 20 minutes, and aroma hops at 5-0 minutes. I often throw hops in as I shut the fire off. SO, when I am making a recipe I usually try to use a high AA% hop for bittering like nugget or chinook. But If I have hops laying around, I might just use those.
I don't know if you have tried a chinook/centennial combination. They are excellent.

Could Centennial hops be used for flavor and/or aroma?

Thanks for the explanations on the IBU/SG ratio. They made very good sense to me.

Centennial is a great all-around American hop. A great higher alpha sub for Cascade. I have been pushing my hop additions later and later in my APA and dry hopping and everyone loves the result. Medium bitterness and flavor and huge hop aroma. I bitter with a high alpha at 60 minutes and drop two ounces at 1 minute and one ounce in the secondary. Don't be afraid to dry hop. It can make a big difference in an American style ale.

Would using 1 oz of cascade for dry hopping improve the aroma of this recipe? If so, at what point in the fermentation process should I add dry hops? Could I start with Centennial for the bitterness hop and then finish with cascade for the flavor and aroma? I have not yet used these two hops together so I don't know if they compliment each other very well.

msa8967 said:

Could I start with Centennial for the bitterness hop and then finish with cascade for the flavor and aroma?

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That's exactly what I would do. (But don't do it just because of that ) 1 oz Centennial @ 60min, 1 oz Cascade @ 10min, 2 oz Cascade @ 1min, and 1 oz cascade after fermentation is done.

If you are going to dry hop, I would recommend transferring to a secondary and having your dry hops in the vessel before racking the beer in, that way the hops are hydrated right away rather than sitting on top until they soak up enough liquid to settle. On the other hand you can do it all in one vessel.

Also, I've heard that the best dry hop aroma/flavor character is had after 3-4 days. No need to keep it on the hops material more than that.

If I dry hop 3-4 days before the beer is done in the secondary can I still use cold crashing and gelatin to help the clarity of the beer? (Will either the cold crashing or gelatin's disturb the effect of the dry hop result?)

Thanks,

Mick

msa8967 said:

If I dry hop 3-4 days before the beer is done in the secondary can I still use cold crashing and gelatin to help the clarity of the beer? (Will either the cold crashing or gelatin's disturb the effect of the dry hop result?)

Thanks,

Mick

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You can still use gelatin if you need to for clarity.

I like the idea of centennial for bittering and cascades for flavor/aroma. You could dryhop with 1/2 centennial and 1/2 cascades for more depth of flavor.

Do any commercial breweries or micro-brews dry hop with 2 or more different types of hops? I didn't know that was possible so this seems like it could be worth trying. Here is the modified recipe at this point for a 4 gallon brew:

Modified Pale Ale Recipe (4 gallon)
7 lb. Pale Malt 2-Row
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Munich Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 20L

1.0 oz Centennial – 60 min (10%) 42.9 IBU
1.5 oz Cascade – 2 min (6.1%) 3.3 IBU
0.5 oz Centennial (Dry hop 3-4 days)
0.5 oz Cascade (Dry hop 3-4 days)

1 pack US-05 dry yeast

estimated SRM 6.0, 5.2% ABV and IBU 46.2


Will using hop bags for the boil affect the transfer of hops to the wort or should I just not use the bags at all for something of this IBU level? This is new territory for my brewing experience.

The nice thing about brewing is that you can do just about anything you want and end up with beer. That looks like a killer pale ale.

msa8967 said:

Do any commercial breweries or micro-brews dry hop with 2 or more different types of hops? I didn't know that was possible so this seems like it could be worth trying. Here is the modified recipe at this point for a 4 gallon brew:

Modified Pale Ale Recipe (4 gallon)
7 lb. Pale Malt 2-Row
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Munich Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 20L

1.0 oz Centennial – 60 min (10%) 42.9 IBU
1.5 oz Cascade – 2 min (6.1%) 3.3 IBU
0.5 oz Centennial (Dry hop 3-4 days)
0.5 oz Cascade (Dry hop 3-4 days)

1 pack US-05 dry yeast

estimated SRM 6.0, 5.2% ABV and IBU 46.2


Will using hop bags for the boil affect the transfer of hops to the wort or should I just not use the bags at all for something of this IBU level? This is new territory for my brewing experience.

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Of course breweries use more than one hop variety for dryhopping. It depends on the recipe/style but many beers have more than one variety.

Is there any reason you took out the flavor hops? I am just wondering. I liked the second-to-the-last recipe much better, with bittering, flavor, and aroma hops in the boil and dryhopping before bottling.

Yooper, I may have been playing with beersmith too much trying to keep the IBU at 45 or under per their guidelines of what can be considered a APA. If I went back and added some Cascade at 20 minutes do you think 0.5 oz would be enough or should I use 1 oz?

msa8967 said:

Yooper, I may have been playing with beersmith too much trying to keep the IBU at 45 or under per their guidelines of what can be considered a APA. If I went back and added some Cascade at 20 minutes do you think 0.5 oz would be enough or should I use 1 oz?

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I'd just do this:

7 lb. Pale Malt 2-Row
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Munich Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 20L

1.0 oz Centennial – 60 min (10%) 42.9 IBU
1 ounce centennial OR cascade 15 minutes
1.0 oz Cascade – 2 min (6.1%) 3.3 IBU
0.5 oz Centennial (Dry hop 3-4 days)
0.5 oz Cascade (Dry hop 3-4 days)

My changes in bold. I like an ounce for flavor and aroma additions in pale ales (or even a bit more- I'm a bit of a hophead, after all!).

If you don't have enough hops on hand, you could do .75 ounces at 60 minutes and then "save" .25 ounces of hops and "steal" .5 ounces from the 2 minute addition and have a .75 ounce addition at 15 minutes. I didn't run it though any software, but 5-8 IBUs difference won't be discernible.

Is there an ideal range of values for the IBU/SG for this style of beer?

Ignore my previous post. I found the chart online showing ratios of IBU and SG for different beer styles.

Saw this chart mapping IBU vs OG posted by several members here on the forum (as well as in Palmer's book) and I want to know if looking at this chart will give you a better indication of how you beer will taste instead of just looking at the IBU's on there own?

Is it safe to assume that just because there is a high IBU number listed on a recipe that the beer may not be extra hoppy depending on the OG used?

msa8967 said:

Is it safe to assume that just because there is a high IBU number listed on a recipe that the beer may not be extra hoppy depending on the OG used?

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The IBU number of a beer doesn't mean much without taking the gravity into account as well. 70 IBU's in a 1.100 OG Russian imperial stout will be fairly balance while the same number in a 1.050 ale will be a hop bomb. That's where the BU:OG ratio comes in handy (IBU's / decimal of OG).

That would make the beers in the example...

RIS - 0.70:1 (70/100)
Ale - 1.40:1 (70/50)

This formula also helps when upscaling a recipe, say from 5 gallons to 10.

Thanks for adding this great explanation in. I see that this ratio is very key to making a good beer. Good me interested in tryign to find out more about how this ratio is used to look at different styles of beer.

I've never used the bug ratios in any recipe formation I've done, but you could find the ratio of a recipe you really like and keep that ratio the same if you ever make any tweaks to it, have to make ingredient substitutions, etc.