I was thinking of heavy mass to put in a secondary vessel to help minimize the air in the carboy. Because I'm using a carboy with a small opening, the best I could think of was to put in clean and sterile glass marbles. Has anyone tried something something similar with (apparent) success?
Glass marbles to reduce air in secondary
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I assume you are doing this to remove head space on the carboy. I would think that there will be enough activity in the yeast left in after transfer to push out the oxygen enough to have a blanket of CO2 on top of the beer.
iambeer
Well-Known Member
This for aging a Belgian dubbel for about a month after a three week fermentation. I'm not sure if those details make any difference. I guess I'm trying to make sense of why people insist that a secondary is not so great. Now it seems like the reason is more about a secondary not being necessary rather than warning of oxidation. Maybe I should stop reading so many posts 
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Some use secondary, some don't. I happen to do it. And I don't worry about oxidation because some CO2 is released during the transfer to the secondary.
MC
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iambeer
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That pretty much says it all in three sentences. A Canadian in South Carolina with a dogfishead license plate? Sorry but that's nothing short of awesome?
Correct. The act of transferring your beer will cause it to emit enough CO2 from solution that by the time it's been completely transferred you won't have any oxygen in there - the same goes for transferring to your bottling bucket. And you can test this if you want - after transferring, light a match and hold it directly over the mouth of the carboy. If it goes out then there's no oxygen in there. People worry needlessly about the amount of headspace in their secondary - if there's no oxygen in there, it wouldn't matter if your headspace took up half the carboy.
Personally, I don't see the need for a secondary unless you're doing fruit beers. Even dry hopping - just put them in the primary after fermentation dies down. Think about it - every time you transfer your beer to another container your risk of infection and/or oxygenation increases. I haven't used one in years.
It's no different for beer. I did it once when I was nervous about headspace in something I was secondarying. They're easily sanitized.
badhabit
Well-Known Member
Another alternative if you are concerned and have access to CO2 is to just blast the head space with a little CO2 before putting the air lock on final.
iambeer
Well-Known Member
I had no idea people used marbles in wine. Now that I hear they do commonly, it's surprising they don't with beer more. It seems like the low cost of glass marbles and the ease of cleaning and sanitizing them is worth the piece of mind that some people have with airspace in secondaries. Autolysis. Oxidation.
"It seems like the low cost of glass marbles and the ease of cleaning and sanitizing them is worth the piece of mind that some people have with airspace in secondaries. Autolysis. Oxidation."
No matter how low the cost, it's too much to "fix" a problem that doesn't generally exist with beer. Unless you missed your marks in terms of volume, 5 gallons of beer in a 5 gallon carboy means headspace isn't really a problem. The beer releases enough CO2 to drive most of that oxygen off.
Autolysis isn't a problem at all in a secondary - an not in a primary either unless you are talking about a year of aging or something.
No matter how low the cost, it's too much to "fix" a problem that doesn't generally exist with beer. Unless you missed your marks in terms of volume, 5 gallons of beer in a 5 gallon carboy means headspace isn't really a problem. The beer releases enough CO2 to drive most of that oxygen off.
Autolysis isn't a problem at all in a secondary - an not in a primary either unless you are talking about a year of aging or something.
iambeer
Well-Known Member
It's all about interpretation. I don't have a 5 gallon carboy. I am talking about when you do have headspace and you don't want to worry about oxygen. I don't believe in a 'blanket of co2'. I do believe in air.
Since we are pointing out the obvious, autolysis can become a problem in the primary when yeast dies and creates off-flavors. This is partly why secondaries are useful. Some people don't like using secondaries because they are afraid of oxidation.
I am sure someone will respond with: It's not that much of a problem anymore because yeast technology has gone so far. And other response with beer is fine in a secondary, doesn't need all that marble madness. Probably. Why do people do it with wine and not with beer for aging? I'm not sure. If I ever make a beer that needs to be aged again, or an IPA, or a fruit beer, I will probably spend a few dollars to minimize headspace. Just in case. Please forgive me for that!
"Since we are pointing out the obvious, autolysis can become a problem in the primary when yeast dies and creates off-flavors."
Yeast don't "die in the primary" unless you are talking about a VERY long timescale. You can scoop those same yeast up and reuse them months from now.
"I don't believe in a 'blanket of co2'. I do believe in air."
Your lack of belief does not alter physics. CO2 is heavier than air. It sinks and "blankets" the low areas.
Yeast don't "die in the primary" unless you are talking about a VERY long timescale. You can scoop those same yeast up and reuse them months from now.
"I don't believe in a 'blanket of co2'. I do believe in air."
Your lack of belief does not alter physics. CO2 is heavier than air. It sinks and "blankets" the low areas.
iambeer
Well-Known Member
Theoretically, there is a blanket. I don't believe there's actually a protective layer of CO2.
At best I am a perfectionist, at worst I have fallen into believing the "myth of oxidation from head space in secondary".
But don't get me wrong. I believe that the least amount of effort (for the best results) is the best way to go.
