55 gal drum mash tun - false bottom ideas?

I'm building a 1.5 BBL system from 55 gallon stainless drums. I feel good about my plan for all components except for the false bottom for the mash/lauter tun. Anyone have any ideas what should be done here? I would spend a little money for the right equipment, for example paying for a custom false bottom that I could drop in. I was also considering a cpvc manifold, but I'm worried about having to un-secure the manifold from bulkhead fitting when cleaning. A false bottom can just be lifted out as it isn't attached to anything.

Does anyone know where a false bottom can be purchased for a 55 gallon drum? I can't see any examples where someone may have done this successfully before. For example, has anyone seen the blichmann false bottom for their 55gallon boilermaker used successfully in a 55 gallon drum?

Thanks in advance. Just looking for some direction from the collective HBT think tank.

Here is a sheet of perforated metal that you can make your own with. I took a swag at the hole diameter.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9358t311/=3twqqg

CodeRage said:

Here is a sheet of perforated metal that you can make your own with. I took a swag at the hole diameter.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#9358t311/=3twqqg

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Hmm.. Yep, that would work. I guess drains could be in the bottom of the drum, with this perforated plate over the top - just resting on the drum bottom. This is the same concept I have on my keggle system now, but the perforated false bottom has a hinge in the middle so it can be folded for removal. I'm talking to the guy who made it for me originally to see if he could do something similar, yet larger, for a 55 gallon drum - which would need to be about 22" diameter.

Pangea said:

Hmm.. Yep, that would work. I guess drains could be in the bottom of the drum, with this perforated plate over the top - just resting on the drum bottom. This is the same concept I have on my keggle system now, but the perforated false bottom has a hinge in the middle so it can be folded for removal. I'm talking to the guy who made it for me originally to see if he could do something similar, yet larger, for a 55 gallon drum - which would need to be about 22" diameter.

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Just doing a little brain dumping here if you are looking to DIY.
yeah, you could also put some stainless screws through it with some nuts as a stand off. Cut two halves out of it so they over lap and drill a pickup tube for it if a drain in the bottom is a problem.

Our club system is a 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tank, we use a Bazooka T, I'd be willing to bet you could do the same since it's only 50 gallons.

Actually, ours is two of the Bazooka 12" pieces but we made our own Tee if I recall.





http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/mash-boil-screen.html

I have a 25" diameter false bottom in my 200 liter (52 gallon) combination mash/later tun.
Beer Beer & more Beer made it to my specifications a few years ago.
They have always done a great job for me.



The only change I would do the next time, make a two or three piece design.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

What kind of insulation are you thinking of using for a 55g drum? How do you suppose you're going to stir that thing? A boat oar? How will you supply heat if necessary?

Suggestions:

Pumping strike water into the mash tun:



False bottom in mash tun. It is a perf screen originally designed to fit a sanke kettle. Works great in this configuration. Held down firm by pressure from copper pipe:




Boil kettle hop filter is a LARGE hose braid (about 1.5" diam). Just starting to collect run-off:



Stirring in hops:

now thats a man!

Bobby_M said:

What kind of insulation are you thinking of using for a 55g drum? How do you suppose you're going to stir that thing? A boat oar? How will you supply heat if necessary?

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I was planning on using a few layers of reflective bubble wrap insulation. I currently use two layers on my keggle setup, just wrapped around the side, not the bottom and it loses about 3 degrees over the 60 minute period. For the 55 gal setup I will use more, both around the sides plus the bottom and also maybe on the lid, depending... I haven't figured out the lid yet. I'm going to weld legs on the drum so insulating the bottom will be important and not too difficult. No additional heat, although I was considering using a 110V drum heater belt like the 300W one on the following link.
http://www.morsemfgco.com/products/drum-heater.htm
I dont think heating will be necessary, for my recipes anyway, as losing a few degrees over 60 to 90 minutes has resulted in some awesome beers!

I'm very open to suggestions for the insulation though. I've tried to search for a pre-made drum blanket or insulation, which you'd think would exist for standard size 55 gallon drums... but of course it doesn't.

Edit - Oh yeah, I might use a boat oar from my pirogue! We'll see how well my large stainless crawfish boiling paddle works first though.

ClaudiusB said:

I have a 25" diameter false bottom in my 200 liter (52 gallon) combination mash/later tun.
Beer Beer & more Beer made it to my specifications a few years ago.
They have always done a great job for me.

The only change I would do the next time, make a two or three piece design.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

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Dude, that's clean looking. Nice. Did you specify to B3 down to the 0.001 inch?!?!?!? Kidding. How do you get it so close to the sidewall? Is there any grain leakage there?

I agree, it seems like it would be a monster to take out and two or 3 pieces would be easier. That's the exact same perforated material I use in my keggle now, except mine is 2 hemispheres on a hinge, so it comes out easy when folded in half. I was leaning similar design and after seeing yours, I think its very doable. I wont have a fancy mixer though. Just a big azz paddle. I'll keep B3 in mind if I cant get it made from the usual folks I'd use. Thanks!

Brewpal - Simple but sweet setup! I like the use of the keggle perf screen. I'd like to have a bottom drain though, I'm going to try to build it so after the grain and screen are removed, and residuals can be washed out without having to pick up the drum. What you've got works fine, I'm sure! And its probably cheaper than what I'm thinking about. How do you get it out to clean? Do you just unscrew that hose clamp I see there and slide everything out?

The drum is not that heavy. All internal parts are removed and a simple saw-horse rig at the cleaning station makes short work for the brew slaves who do my kettle cleaning:

I think it would be a great idea to account for heat loss. If you have no interest in a RIMS/HERMS situation, just keeping the exterior surface warm is a great alternative. How about wrapping the barrel with an in-floor/under tile heating mat and run it on a ranco?

I've been planning on this exact thing. That prebuilt false bottom is pretty sweet. How much did that run you?

I was leaning towards buying a sheet of this SS perforated sheet:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=13521&step=4&id=1002&top_cat=1

having it cut into a circle and then using SS bolts and nuts to hold it off the bottom. It's a pretty simple solution, certainly not as clean as the custom made one but I think it would work quite good. I think the false bottom should cover the entire bottom if possible for maximum efficiency. I wold be hesitant to use any solution that doesn't. Especially with these size grain bills!

We're also thinking about cutting the circle in half and adding a little lip that overlaps the cut, for each of cleaning/removal.

For heating, we're planning some basic insulation and a HERMS.

I tried to look up ABT, who makes the false bottom molded for the keggles, like brepal has - to see if they could make the same thing, but just larger diameter. Couldn't find them on the web. Its the same as the perforated metal we're all talking about, just molded to be raised in the middle and flush to the bottom around the perimeter. That sucker would flow and be awesome for lautering without a lot of mods to the drum. Just drain from beneath the raised section to the pump.

Regarding heat - I've never seen or heard of an under floor heating mat. That could be ideal for this kind of application though if I'm envisioning it correctly. Would you mount the thermocouple in between the heater and the drum wall or try to measure actual mash temp?

Incase anyone was wondering, this is what I plan to ferment in - in a temp controlled room.
http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?item=2803

Pangea said:

Incase anyone was wondering, this is what I plan to ferment in - in a temp controlled room.
http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?item=2803

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Cool, we are going to ferment in the exact same thing. We have a 12'x12' walk-in that we are going to segment into two rooms. One for keg storage/serving, one for fermentation. Sounds like we are both running along the same lines. Are you going pro or just super-sizing the hobby?

Pangea said:

I tried to look up ABT, who makes the false bottom molded for the keggles, like brepal has - to see if they could make the same thing, but just larger diameter. Couldn't find them on the web. Its the same as the perforated metal we're all talking about, just molded to be raised in the middle and flush to the bottom around the perimeter. That sucker would flow and be awesome for lautering without a lot of mods to the drum. Just drain from beneath the raised section to the pump.

Regarding heat - I've never seen or heard of an under floor heating mat. That could be ideal for this kind of application though if I'm envisioning it correctly. Would you mount the thermocouple in between the heater and the drum wall or try to measure actual mash temp?

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The stuff I'm talking about is basically a run of resistive wire that you'd put between the floor and newly installed tiles to make your bathroom floor toasty. I was imagining putting it between the barrel and wrapped insulation to keep the temp up. I don't know for sure if it would work as intended.

ajwillys said:

Coo, we are going to ferment in the exact same thing. We have a 12'x12' walk-in that we are going to segment into two rooms. One for keg storage/serving, one for fermentation. Sounds like we are both running along the same lines. Are you going pro or just super-sizing the hobby?

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Both!

And yes, we are thinking along the same lines. Our setups would need lots of these fermenters as production increases, but they're pretty inexpensive.

I was thinking about building my cold room the old-fashioned way - with regular wall studs, plywood, and insullation - plus a rigged window A/C units. I may do 3 rooms, one for house ale yeast, one for lager fermentation, and third for refrigeration/keg storage/cold crashing. I plan to mount these fermenters on casters so they can be moved from fermentation to refrigeration as needed.

Pangea said:

I plan to mount these fermenters on casters so they can be moved from fermentation to refrigeration as needed.

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Same here, the other good reason to move them out is for cleaning. For one, its easier/less messy to not clean in your cold room and also, if you are cleaning with hot water, its a huge energy waste.

ajwillys said:

Same here, the other good reason to move them out is for cleaning. For one, its easier/less messy to not clean in your cold room and also, if you are cleaning with hot water, its a huge energy waste.

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Yep! So when are you ready to do some pilot brews for me?! I need to know the system is going to work before I invest all of my time and money!

ajwillys - I also sent you a PM.

The ever expanding equipment collection around here allowed me to convert one of the drums to a fermenter. Water is boiled in it to sanitize the bottom seam and valve as well as circulating sanitizer with a DIY spray ball. The sturdy box with casters allows moving from the brewing area to the fermentation chamber. The lid is a food grade drum lid from US Plastics. Cleans up nicely, allows for yeast harvest by re-suspending the yeast in the last gal or two before draining, and conducts well.

brewpal, nice looking fermenter. Do you use that same valve to collect the beer, then re-suspend the yeast and collect it out of that valve also?

Bobby_M said:

What kind of insulation are you thinking of using for a 55g drum? How do you suppose you're going to stir that thing? A boat oar? How will you supply heat if necessary?

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Do both with one device, a small outboard motor with jet prop exhaust. I had to be a wise ass couldn't resist.

On the false bottom have you thought about having a sheet metal shop roll you a ring out of stainless 3/4" x 3/4" or 3/4" x 1" on the vertical a angle cut and braked out of 16 or 14 gauge stainless sheet? After rolled and cut to fit with ends butting have it Tig welded with heavy tacks every 4" at the top of the radius bend as well the bottom 1" down against the side of your drum. This way you can have the screen 1/4" smaller in diameter than the drum to install plus will seal against the flat angle for a seal preventing the mash from leaking thru. On the bottom side add the same angle material with with legs to support the screen with all that grain weight your going to have. This screen support stand just a drop in not welded to your screen for easy cleaning and simplicity of construction, aka added cost and labor.

Where do people go about getting these awesome 55 gallon stainless drums? All the ones I tend to see online are just steel and usually coated with some chemical to make them food grade.

Are there specific drums that people are using?

We got ours on Craigslist. I check it *every* day and jump on stuff the second I find it.

We actually have at least one more than we need if you're interested although I see you are about as far as humanly possible from me and still be in the same country.

About how much do they normally sell for? Are there specifics on what to look for? like wall thickness?

What about how the ends are sealed? Is one end usually clamped on somehow? or are they filled through a bunch and you have to cut out one end?

A few friends and I have been looking into building a larger system and were looking for a couple for a HLT and Kettle and these look perfect.

You want the fully removable top drums that use a band clamp to hold the lid on. The drum will have a rounded edge of the base material rolled out back to the drums body. To cut the top off a fully sealed or a solid drum is asking for more trouble and time than you ever dreamed.
I worked around food processing plants for years on electrical remodels and never had a thought about collecting some stainless drums when many were available free, stupid me oh well.

I worked in and around a "SEA OF STAINLESS MATERIALS", pumps, fittings you name it even conical tanks from 10 to 500 gallons sitting in the bone yards out in back of many plants I worked in, stupid me I could of had many items just for the asking. Now I see what they want for a conical fermenter and about die.

I originally used my drum to mash before I got a different kettle. The coupler on the drum was welding a few inches off the bottom. When it was converted to a fermenter we had to accommodate getting all the finished beer drained by installed a SS elbow and nipple as a diptube inside. Worked well, but I have since plugged that one off and installed a new coupler and valve right at the bottom so no diptube is needed.

On brewday after sanitizing and getting the lid in place, we fill through the valve, pump in the yeast slurry from the last batch that was saved in a corny, and move it into place for fermenting. Taking periodic samples is a breeze of course. After fermentation is complete, kegs are filled by draining from the valve right into the keg. The last couple of gallons left is agitated to re-suspend yeast and that is drained into a collection corny for re-use. Drum cleans easily with a pressure washer and light scrub. We can get enough in there to fill 8 cornies with a bit to spare.

Update: I bought a 21.5" diameter false bottom from Jaybird here on HBT. Will post again when the thing is installed!

Wow talk about some surface area with 363 sq/in of area. You must have a stainless ring for a full contact support of the perimeter as well legs added thru the screen to prevent it from collapsing from your large grain weight.

I'll use a high temp (silicon, probably) gasket around the perimiter and support the middle with some small stainless bolts or screws threaded through a perforation. No big deal, really.

The tough part will be getting the grain out. I may rig up a tilting somethingorother later, but for now I plan to scoop out 60+ lbs grain, plus water weight.

What about a thin strip of stainless the same thickness as your sealing gasket with 1/2 circle or notches cut facing the bottom edge then rolled into a hoop half the barrels diameter to support the screen? Add four short stainless 10-32 screws and nuts to hold the ring centered. Drop it in and the grain would hold it in position. If there ever was a time for a tippy dump system you need one with those wet grain volumes to make life easy.

Nope to the stainless strip. Too much trouble and $$$ when you have no metal working skillz or capability. My removable gasket can be either 1/2" silicon tube, ends connected. Cheap. Easy. Effective. I can secure the gasket to the FB if I want or just lay it loose on the bottom and then put the FB on top.

You're right - this is a situation begging for tippy dump. Just need to figure out the best way. I'm going to focus on getting the system working first, then try mods to "tip" the MT and dump grain down the road.

Also, if anyone's curious, I ordered a 60 gallon fermenter yesterday...whoohooo!!!

Pangea said:

Also, if anyone's curious, I ordered a 60 gallon fermenter yesterday...whoohooo!!!

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Nice! Let me know what you think about it!

ajwillys said:

Nice! Let me know what you think about it!

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Will do Andrew. Thanks for the drums! I'm building the stands for them today as a matter of fact.

What are you guys doing for brewhouse heating/control? Decided yet?

I am curious!
Actually getting ready to pull the trigger on a couple of these two. Are you putting them in a big fridge or cold room for temp control? You did by the FD (full drain) version, right? Have you already worked out what fittings you're going to use for the bottom drain? Are you going to put in a racking port too?

Awesome!

No, no idea on the racking port yet. I was thinking maybe just a through-wall fitting and ball valve at the right height. If you find a good racking arm / fitting for something like this, let me know. I will be puting in a temp controlled room. Too big for a fridge!

For heating, I was thinking the wok burners, probably the 32 tip. Not sure if we will be able to use NG, but that would be preferred. If not, we will go with LP.

http://www.cpapc.com/store/32-Tip-Round-Nozzle-Jet-Burner-P470C244.aspx

For temp control, we actually are using a big fridge (well, a REALLY big fridge). It's 12'x12' and we are thinking about separating into a cold side and a fermenting side. I'm most concerned about special beers that may fall without the typical fermenting range we plan on employing in the fermenting side. We may supplement a fermenter by wrapping it in coils and pumping cold liquid around it or something.