confused!!!!

I just did a brew and took a recipe from a book from the owner of the dog fish head brewery. In the recipe it stated to use 1/2 lbs of torrified wheat and 1/2 lbs of 6 row pale malt, place them in a grain bag place the bag in water, turn the heat on high until 170 then remove the bag. Now after reading and research I find out these grains must be mashed, or it will create off flavored beer. What is the deal? why do so many of these recipes call to steep grains that in turn need to be mashed? Or am I just way off base. Sorry I am just new and want to learn as much as I can so I can make good beer. I just want to figure this stuff out.

Although the grains need to be mashed to extract the sugar, steeping will give you the color and flavor from the grains.

That's an extract with grains recipe...with steeping you get flavor and mouthfeel from them, although they, through steeping, don't provide any fermentable sugars.

well that makes me feel better. Thanks alot for all of your help. I know you must hear the same questions over and over, but to someone new like myself, it is great to be able to have a place to turn when I get confused.

Actually this is NOT one of the often asked questions. And it is actually a good one. Glad we could clear it up.

jimmywit said:

I just did a brew and took a recipe from a book from the owner of the dog fish head brewery.

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I'm pretty sure that I just bought that same book this weekend. I've earmarked the "A to Z Brown Ale" as my "on-deck" brew (the next time SWMBO actually.... y'know.... lets me brew) and there are plently more very tasty-sounding beers (Blood Orange Hefe, Pumpkin Porter, Cherry Ale, etc.) to keep me neck-deep in beer for the next several months.

I think the idea behind mashing/steeping the wheat with the six row is for it's diastic power. I have to believe if you throw the grains in cold water and apply heat until it reaches 170 there's going to be some conversion going on.

PT Ray is correct. The 6-row has crazy diastatic power and will convert any specialty grains that need mashing in your steep. It will do the conversion fairly quickly as you come up through the mashing temperatures, and when you reach that 170 magic number (basically a mashout temp) it will halt conversion. You pull the grains at this point to prevent tannin extraction/harshness.

Happy brewing.

Hopefully you crushed the grains before doing this.

some grains need to be mashed some grains don't. base malts, like 6 row, and kilned malts need to be mashed. caramel and roasted malts don't need to be mashed and can just be steeped.

TipsyDragon said:

some grains need to be mashed some grains don't. base malts, like 6 row, and kilned malts need to be mashed. caramel and roasted malts don't need to be mashed and can just be steeped.

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Great question... I've kinda been wondering something similar since I'm new to brewing.

How are you supposed to know if they need to be mashed or not when you purchase a kit and it grains in a ziplock bag? Is it always assumed you don't need to do anything, and you just steep it?

Also, how do you know if the grains need to be crushed? I've read that some people just use a rolling pin over the plastic ziplock bag they all come in. I've ordered so far are from http://www.northernbrewer.com/ , extract ale kits , but I don't think the instructions say to crush the grains. Are you supposed to, does it hurt to crush them in the bag regardless before steeping?

So basically going off the OPs question.. when is the proper time to mash, steep, crush the grains etc. if the instructions aren't that great (Which I've heard all kit instructions are not good)

all grain needs to be crushed before use. every kit i've seen has the grain already crushed. every kit at least lists the grains in the bag. check which group the grains fall in. if there are any grains that need to be mashed then you should mash.

crush before brewing if needed. either mash or steep depending on the type of grain don't do both.

robertvrabel said:

Great question... I've kinda been wondering something similar since I'm new to brewing.

How are you supposed to know if they need to be mashed or not when you purchase a kit and it grains in a ziplock bag? Is it always assumed you don't need to do anything, and you just steep it?

Also, how do you know if the grains need to be crushed? I've read that some people just use a rolling pin over the plastic ziplock bag they all come in. I've ordered so far are from http://www.northernbrewer.com/ , extract ale kits , but I don't think the instructions say to crush the grains. Are you supposed to, does it hurt to crush them in the bag regardless before steeping?

So basically going off the OPs question.. when is the proper time to mash, steep, crush the grains etc. if the instructions aren't that great (Which I've heard all kit instructions are not good)

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The kit will say whether or not is is a partial mash kit, all grain kit, or extract with steeping grains kit. Most kits are either Extract with grains or all grain, though there are PM kits as well. You usually specify when you are odering online. And honestly most stores are going to carry extract with steeping grain kits.

All grain, whether it needs to be mashed or steeped needs to be crushed. Even for steeping grains, it is not too different from using dry spices in cooking, it is always a good idea to crush or break up a spice or an herb, to help release any essential oils. Since often the surface of the spice/herb is pretty dry and somewhat, for lack of a better term, "oxydized" from being in contact with the air, so breaking releases all the goodies hiding inside.

Also even if the grainbill contains some 2-row or 6-row, it doesn't mean that it is a partial mash kits. There is a theory that having a little 2-row or 6-row helps bring out more of the grain's flavors and colors, though not necessarily through mashing. A lot of kit manufacturers these days, including Austin Homebrew add some 2-row to the steeping granbill.

Conversion will begin around 95F, starch gelatinization hits 90% at 130F, from 130-150F beta amylase is most active and alpha amylase all the way up to 162F. So, if you start with 6-row and cold water, some conversion has occurred. If you stopped at 155F and waited 30 minutes, you've done a mini-mash.

Brewing is rarely 100% anything.

Just wanted to add that I also got Sam Calagione's book for Christmas and I'm definitely excited about it. I bottled the "extreme IPA" last week and it smelled amazing, can't wait to crack one open in a couple of weeks.

I think the Allagash clone is the next on my list.