I need to housebreak my yeast

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andycr

andycr

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If there's one thing I have a problem with, it's attenuation. It, more than any other process in my brewing hobby, seems to be more random than scientific.

No, WLP004, you shouldn't finish Ode to Arthur at 1.020. Bad yeasts. I mashed at 152, what more do you want.

Next time I'll mash at around 148 for a dry Irish stout, I think. Roused it and waiting a few days, but I doubt it's anything but done. Stupid yeast. :p
 
Have you verified your temp prob, thermometer, rtd, or whatever you use? I had a cheapo TC that wasnt right and I didnt figure it until 2 batches did what you are describing...but im a noob so take what I say with a grain of salt
 
Checking your thermometer is an excellent place to start. Often beers with a lot of 'darker' malts can be a little tricky to get down to the FG we want. Mashing lower should help, but you run the risk of making a 'watery' stout with little or no mouth feel. For me, when I mastered my aeration practices; the 'stuck' fermentations went away. I haven't had anything finish too high (knock on wood) for years now. Something simple as a wine degassing whip and a thermometer that can be calibrated has made my brews and my yeast happy. Not saying this will fix all your problems, just what has helped me.

94.jpg
 
I'm wondering about my thermometer, I'll check it against my analog one next time. I aerate pretty thoroughly and have yet to get a truly stuck fermentation, just ones that end higher than expected... Pitching rate is always good by my check (1L starters for 2.5 gallons).

Since Ode to Arthur uses 25% flaked barley, I'm betting I can get away with a lower mash temp without sacrificing body. Good to try next time I brew it.
 
That's usually my issue with attenuation, mash temps that creep up a little too high if i'm not paying attention to them.
 
I never paid much attention to how well my thermometer worked. I have a collection of about 6 different ones. My Uncle's girlfriend works in restaurants and she showed me the best thermometers are he ones that you can calibrate by adjusting the nut on the back side. She gave me one of hers and I calibrated it using ice cubes and boiling water. I tested it against all the other I used for the last few years. Oh my god where they way off. No wonder I had attenuation problems. I mean off by +/- 5 degrees.
 
I found thermal industries makes fairly accurate digital thermometers. I also found most taylor tyhermometers off by 11 degrees or so. Thermal Industries makes Thermopen and others. Question: Are thermometers that are based on physics more reliable than those that rely on an electronic sensor? For instance, a mercury (silver) or alcohol (usually died red) thermometer is based on volume increases of thoase materials due to thermal expansion. Seems to my limited understanding that those would be good reference sources. I'm not advocating accepting the risk of contaminating a batch with a broken mercury thermometer, but I'd consider getting one for calibration purposes. The challenge as I see it is in getting an accurate reference point. We all can make an ice bath with salt to approach 32F, and adjust a rolling boil for alditude, but those are not the temps we mash at.
 
Hmm, pretty sure it's my thermometer. Now that I think about it, it's meant to be a meat thermometer, so I bet it under-reports the temperature to appease the gods of food safety. :mad:

I'll have to check it more carefully against my analog one on tomorrow's brewday.
 
If you check them both against boiling water it might give you a good idea of the deviation at mash temperatures.
 
Just measured it at mash temps, it's within 1 degree of an analog thermometer. Must be something else going on here.

Wondering if I just should have mashed sub-150 for a dry stout. Perhaps the high percentage (10%) of roasted malt was unfermentable sugars? Is roasted malt high in unfermentables?
 
Perhaps they are both wrong? Analog doesn't mean accurate. What do they measure at boiling?
 
The digital one measures exactly 212 in boiling water. :confused:
 
25% flaked barley is a large proportion, which could give you a high FG as well. Since your thermometer checks out, start looking at other sources of low attenuation. Grain bill pops into my head since your mash temp was correct and on the lower end.
 
Yeast these days....ever since spanking became illegal, they have become so disobedient. No respect for mashing temps.

OP was funny.

First thing I think of is aeration. It's hard to get proper oxygen levels by shaking (not sure if that's your method).
 
Damn yeast, listening to loud music at all hours of the night...

Good thoughts all around, I am indeed shaking for 45 seconds before pitching. I saw a video from a White Labs or Wyeast rep saying that would be even better than straight O2 for most beers, but it was awhile ago.

That said, I think I found the culprit. The temp probe only goes in so far, a couple inches or so. I measured the thickest part of the mash and it's a good 4 degrees higher than the probe's depth measures. So despite the probe being accurate, it just can't go deep enough to get an accurate reading. When the probe reads 144, it's actually at my 148 target for this re-brew of the stout in the center of the mash. So when I was mashing at 152, it was actually more like 156. Mystery solved... I think. We'll see in a few weeks.
 
andycr said:
Damn yeast, listening to loud music at all hours of the night...

Good thoughts all around, I am indeed shaking for 45 seconds before pitching. I saw a video from a White Labs or Wyeast rep saying that would be even better than straight O2 for most beers, but it was awhile ago.

That said, I think I found the culprit. The temp probe only goes in so far, a couple inches or so. I measured the thickest part of the mash and it's a good 4 degrees higher than the probe's depth measures. So despite the probe being accurate, it just can't go deep enough to get an accurate reading. When the probe reads 144, it's actually at my 148 target for this re-brew of the stout in the center of the mash. So when I was mashing at 152, it was actually more like 156. Mystery solved... I think. We'll see in a few weeks.
Click to expand...

If you think the mash is out of temperature, before you do anything be sure to stir thoroughly. Over a 60 minute mash the temperatures will stratify. Stirring remixes them and gives you a more reliable reading. My mash usually stirs back up to the temp I was aiming for, no firing required.
 
Yeah, stirring helps a lot. My hope was to use the thermometer by placing the remote probe, then just glancing in the kitchen once in awhile to make sure it's still at mash temp. My current procedure is:

Start of mash, set timer for 10 minutes.
End of 10 minutes, stir thoroughly, take reading from center of mash to make sure it's still on target.
If it isn't, fire burner, set timer for 1 minute.
End of 1 minute timer, turn off burner, stir, take another reading. Re-fire for 1 minute increments as necessary until we're back at mash temp.
Once at the right temp again, set timer for 10 minutes, walk away, repeat.

It's a pain, but at least I'm getting consistent mash temps now, and the temps might even be right assuming I have a reliable thermometer. Bought 2 more yesterday, one "instant read" that is only 0.3ºF off in boiling water accounting for altitude, but takes 30 seconds to get a reading, and one which measures less than 190 in the center of boiling water. Might take awhile to perfect this...
 
andycr said:
Yeah, stirring helps a lot. My hope was to use the thermometer by placing the remote probe, then just glancing in the kitchen once in awhile to make sure it's still at mash temp. My current procedure is:

Start of mash, set timer for 10 minutes.
End of 10 minutes, stir thoroughly, take reading from center of mash to make sure it's still on target.
If it isn't, fire burner, set timer for 1 minute.
End of 1 minute timer, turn off burner, stir, take another reading. Re-fire for 1 minute increments as necessary until we're back at mash temp.
Once at the right temp again, set timer for 10 minutes, walk away, repeat.

It's a pain, but at least I'm getting consistent mash temps now, and the temps might even be right assuming I have a reliable thermometer. Bought 2 more yesterday, one "instant read" that is only 0.3ºF off in boiling water accounting for altitude, but takes 30 seconds to get a reading, and one which measures less than 190 in the center of boiling water. Might take awhile to perfect this...
Click to expand...

If you are this serious about it, buy a thermopen and never worry again.
 
Seriously. They are a little on the expensive side. And I am always hesisant to drop money like that, but I can say it is one of my most enjoyable brewing purchases.

You pretty much do not have to worry about it being incorrect. And response is almost immediate (two seconds maximum).

It's also a great tool in the kitchen and out on the grill. My wife is constantly bugging me when I leave it down in the brewery and she is trying to make dinner.

Maybe I should pick her one up for a Valentine's present? Yea, that would go over well...
 

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