I see what you're saying, but, note, that Mr. Malty states that, for the parameters listed above you need to pitch 0.9 11.5gm packets of dry yeast for the same wort.
Dry yeasts really that good now?
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I see what you're saying, but, note, that Mr. Malty states that, for the parameters listed above you need to pitch 0.9 11.5gm packets of dry yeast for the same wort.
No 1990, revised 2002:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0306472740/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I'd be surprised if the authors were even born by 1936.
I find it amusing that I'm the one being accused of twisting issues.
Jim
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giligson
Well-Known Member
Honestly I'm surprised that all of you are wasting time debating this point.
Why can't we talk about something important - like why fly sparging is superior to batch sparging
Why can't we talk about something important - like why fly sparging is superior to batch sparging
I'm not twisting anything. I gave the original quote and then told
you what I thought it meant. Nowhere do they say that you would
make beer as good as liquid yeast, but one of the other posters
supplied the link to that quote as evidence that dry yeast is just as good as
making a starter, when it isn't evidence for anything other than
that dry yeast may be an *adequate* substitute.
Jim
You want THEM to say it will make beer as good as liquid. For who to say? The manufacturers?? You've already attempted to discredit them. You seem to be wanting a scientific argument to show the improved capabilities of dry yeast, particularly when it comes to lag time.
A scientific reason for improved yeast quality, such as:
"Oh yeah, the Acme yeast company has bioengineered
a strain that eliminates the long lag time."
Ok, now a question for all those people claiming to have
great beer with dry yeast: are you making light lagers
or pale ales with them, or only dark beers with half a pound
or more of dark malts to cover up the flavor defects?
Jim
...and seem to feel that is a reason dry yeast cannot make good beer. I am not convinced with the argument that the lag time of properly hydrated yeast is significantly different, on average, than liquid yeast. In saying this, I will say I have used far more dry than liquid, but do not note a massive difference. Now, this is my anecdotal argument. It is based on my experience. You seem unwilling to be convinced by this, fair enough, but, note, many of your posts have used the same "based on my experience" argument. What I'm saying is, you are making a counter argument against dry yeast. If you're not willing to take others experience into account, why are we required to place yours on an untouchable pedestal?
Honestly I'm surprised that all of you are wasting time debating this point.
Why can't we talk about something important - like why fly sparging is superior to batch sparging
Now what would be the point of that?!?! We all know fly sparging is VASTLY superior!!!
More info about one of the authors: Lewis:
"Lewis graduated from the University of Birmingham in England in 1957 and subsequently earned his doctorate there in 1960. He was a research biochemist at Roswell Park Memorial Institute in New York before coming to UC Davis as a researcher in 1962. Although lecture classes in brewing science were offered in the 1950s, it wasnt until Lewis arrival that a comprehensive brewing program began to take shape. Under his leadership, the program emphasized yeast fermentation science and the study of the complex processes involved in converting malted barley and hops into beer.
Lewis has authored more than 100 scholarly papers and co-authored the flagship text, Brewing. He has been honored by the Award of Merit of the Master Brewers Association of the Americas and is a fellow of the Institute of Brewing in London. Lewis received a UC Davis Distinguished Teaching Award in 1989. He retired in 1994 but remains active as the lead instructor on the brewing classess offered through University Extension."
So maybe he WAS born by 1936.
Jim
... I am not convinced with the argument that the lag time of properly hydrated yeast is significantly different, on average, than liquid yeast. In saying this, I will say I have used far more dry than liquid, but do not note a massive difference. Now, this is my anecdotal argument. It is based on my experience. You seem unwilling to be convinced by this, fair enough, but, note, many of your posts have used the same "based on my experience" argument. What I'm saying is, you are making a counter argument against dry yeast. If you're not willing to take others experience into account, why are we required to place yours on an untouchable pedestal?
I have no desire to take these posts as seriously as you and
others do. Some of you seem to be intent on having the last
word no matter what. You don't have to take my opinions
seriously or at all. But my question has been answered, and for that
I thank you.
Jim
I have no desire to take these posts as seriously as you and
others do. Some of you seem to be intent on having the last
word no matter what. You don't have to take my opinions
seriously or at all. But my question has been answered, and for that
I thank you.
Jim
Actually, I hope you have noted the good natured, if spirited, manner in which I've tried to respond to you. It's important to have a bit of a tough hide when dealing with the internet. No great offense was intended. If you were offended, I apologize. That being said, if I did call you to task on certain items, it was not meant to be spiteful. I didn't agree with your argument and tried to make it clear where I felt you were being unsound. It wasn't about egging you on or trying to have the last word.
However, I do disagree, in the great scheme of things, this is on a level of seriousness only one step removed from what type of socks I'm going to wear tomorrow. If you can be civil, and do understand that I'm not saying you haven't been to this point, I give you the last word, if you will take it. Here is your dime. You, sir, have a free call!
boo boo
Well-Known Member
Now what would be the point of that?!?! We all know fly sparging is VASTLY superior!!!
Of course this quote only applies if using an orange coloured round cooler.
If using any other colour or shaped coolers as a mash/lauter tun, then batch sparging rules.
northernlad
Well-Known Member
If anyone here is looking for factual information on which makes better beer, you are going to be here a long time.
If the OP does not like dry yeast, let him use liquid with the comfort of knowing it is purely opinion and personal taste. Each of us is entitled to those, no?
If the OP does not like dry yeast, let him use liquid with the comfort of knowing it is purely opinion and personal taste. Each of us is entitled to those, no?
dale1038
Well-Known Member
Obviously dry and liquid both make good beer. It's the brewer who makes good beer!!!....not the yeast....or the water....or the container size...etc....etc...:rockin:
What I want to know is why 90 minute boils are seemingly making me such good beers lately???
What I want to know is why 90 minute boils are seemingly making me such good beers lately???
loganb
Well-Known Member
Now what would be the point of that?!?! We all know fly sparging is VASTLY superior!!!
how dare you! scientifcaly studies have shown many times that batch sparging is the bees knee and fly sparging is not cool. IN YO FACE!! anyway chuck norris batch sparges
Amen! RDWHAHB
More info about one of the authors: Lewis:
"Lewis graduated from the University of Birmingham in England in 1957 and subsequently earned his doctorate there in 1960. He was a research biochemist at Roswell Park Memorial Institute in New York before coming to UC Davis as a researcher in 1962. Although lecture classes in brewing science were offered in the 1950s, it wasnt until Lewis arrival that a comprehensive brewing program began to take shape. Under his leadership, the program emphasized yeast fermentation science and the study of the complex processes involved in converting malted barley and hops into beer.
Lewis has authored more than 100 scholarly papers and co-authored the flagship text, Brewing. He has been honored by the Award of Merit of the Master Brewers Association of the Americas and is a fellow of the Institute of Brewing in London. Lewis received a UC Davis Distinguished Teaching Award in 1989. He retired in 1994 but remains active as the lead instructor on the brewing classess offered through University Extension."
So maybe he WAS born by 1936.
Jim
Yeah but can he make good beer??
No 1990, revised 2002:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0306472740/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I'd be surprised if the authors were even born by 1936.
I find it amusing that I'm the one being accused of twisting issues.
Jim
Yeah, thats the one I looked up. Click on the "look inside" link and scroll down and read.
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Right, so born in 1936. The book wasn't written in the '30's, as someone tried
to claim. Anyway, here's a more recent opinion from a book that came out
in 2007:
The Home Brewer's Answer Book by Ashton Lewis 2007
"Liquid yeast is also less likely to carry contaminants.
The process used to dry yeast is set up for relatively
long run times, and any bacteria that may be in the
drier can grow and contaminate the yeast. In the late
'80s and early '90s, many brewpubs were using dry yeast.
Occasional problems with contaminated dried yeast gave
dry yeast a bad name, and many brewers quit using it.
I know some really good dry yeast suppliers who are
using improved methods, and I would not hesitate to use
dry yeast because of some problems more than 15 years
ago. With that said, I believe liquid yeast is probably
cleaner than dry yeast because of the drying step. I buy
liquid yeast from a yeast lab and use it for 10-15
generations before discarding the yeast and buying fresh
yeast. I would not feel comfortable doing the same with
dry yeast, because any contaminants increase when yeast
is used over several generations."
In the accompanying table, he says you can propagate liquid
yeast 10-15 times, dried yeast 2-3 times.
Jim
Synovia
Well-Known Member
And nowhere did they say it wouldn't.
