Is AG really that much cheaper then extract?

is AG really much cheaper then exract brewing, if you dont buy your grain in bulk?

i just did an ag 5.4 % simple recipe and it was $18 for AG. i would assume in extract i would have spent $28.

Batch for batch it's cheaper. The only wild card in there is that you have to buy extra equipment to go all grain. If you go cheap on your equipment like I did, you can spend under $100 and get a decent 5 gallon system. My all grain batches run between $20-25, while my extract batches are between $32-40.

If you buy bulk grain you can really save, but then you'll need a grain crusher. All that means is that the more money you spend on the equipment, the longer it will take you to "break even" by saving money on all grain.

Most of my 10 gal batches cost around $25:

My last batch was BierMuncher's Cream of 3 Crops:
12 lb base malt x $0.80 ~ $10
4 lb flaked corn = $4
1 lb flaked rice = $1
2 oz hops ~ $4
s-05 yeast x2 = $4
Total = $23, under $12 per 5 gal batch.

It really works best when you don't figure cost into the overall equation...

John Beere said:

It really works best when you don't figure cost into the overall equation...

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Right, i like that!
"See honey, the reason you think I'm spending too much on eqiupment is that your considering cost into the overall equation. Look, I make beer...and in the end we have beer to drink! Case closed!"

bkov said:

is AG really much cheaper then exract brewing, if you dont buy your grain in bulk?

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Yes it costs less for the ingrdients but don't do all-grain to save money. Do it to make better beer and have more control over the process. You are going to have to substitute some of your own labor and time for the price difference and like has been mentioned you will need to buy or make additional equipment.

Yes, it really is, discounting the equipment. Even more so if you buy supplies in bulk.

Throw in the gear and you're many, many batches from even.

Let me put it this way, the costs involved with making good beer are pretty much the same no matter where you get your fermentables from.

One example is fermentation temp control and full boils (which require a large pot and chiller).

After that, a converted cooler and braid will be absorbed after only half a dozen all grain batches.

It'll take time before it becomes cheaper, thanks to the equipment cost. Eventually, yes it will be cheaper.

The difference between buying grain in bulk and by the batch isn't all that big, at least until you've made up the cost of the crusher.

I find that washing my favorite strains of yeast saves a significant amount of money. I've used at least 10-15 mason jars of washed yeast. You can turn one pack of Wyeast or White labs into 4 with one washing.
I find this method works great
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

I buy bulk DME/hops and wash my yeast so my cost per 5 gal batch is still under $20.

I figure that for an average beer you're going to use about 8 pounds of base grain which at my LHBS cost $1 a pound for a total of $8. Producing a gravity of about with %75 efficiency 1.044.

Two 3.3 lb cans of light LME cost $14 each for a total of $28 and produce a gravity of 1.047.

However I suppose if you didn't use steeping grains you could get a darker extract and save money that way. Also my calculations don't factor in that your LHBS might have different prices on grain or extract. Let's not forget the extra propane spent heating up sparge water.

The AG savings are also increased as you produce higher gravity beers with a bigger grain bill.

I guess the lesson here is to brew barley wine only then:rockin:

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

Right, i like that!
"See honey, the reason you think I'm spending too much on eqiupment is that your considering cost into the overall equation. Look, I make beer...and in the end we have beer to drink! Case closed!"

Click to expand...

You know, my wife bitches about the amount of money I spend on equipment, but she never has any problem drinking the results... she's funny that way.

As long as you stick with it over the years it is definitely cheaper, and more rewarding. I am newer to AG done a few batches now, but I spend about 25-30 on 12-13 gallon batches. I was cheap with my equipment, given I built my three tier gravity system out of scrap wood in my garage (works like a charm). Only problem is brew time. I can only brew once a week as of now because of the time it takes. But it makes brew day more fun, and you can RDWHAHB, a lot.

Check out Austin Homebrew, MidWest, Northern Brewer etc. and compare their extract kit prices with comparable All Grain kit prices.

That should give you a good idea of the cost difference if you don't buy in bulk.

FWIW, when I switched to AG in 1992, it took me about 6 months to recover the extra cost of my AG equipment. Since then, I've slowly upgraded my equipment. In each case the equipment upgrade resulted in improved efficiency (where the cost of the upgrade was recovered within a year), or allowed me to do something I couldn't do before. The most cost effective upgrade was buying a grain mill. This didn't improve my efficiency at all, but it did allow me to buy grain in bulk cutting the cost by over 50%.

-a

That is totally the way it is on my end too!

doesn't matter......it tastes soooooooooo much better.
but it is cheaper too.

It's not just about being cheaper, which it is, but it's about control over your final product. When you go extract you have a limited amount of choices over your base extract. When you go AG you have so many more choices for base grains and can create some really unique and delicious beers.

I buy in bulk so your question doesn't apply to me but I'll tell you anyway. My last 10 gallon batch of Bavarian Hefe cost me $13.88 for aprox 60 beers. That is $1.39 a sixer or .23 cents a beer. In comparison a hop heavy beer may cost as much as $20 to $30 a batch

I switched to all grain a year ago. I already was setup to do full boils though. I really don't know if I have paid off my equipment, but having a crusher and buying grain in bulk is the way to go. $.65 a pound vs $1.25 adds up quick. My wife bought me a barley crusher for my birthday, so I am really not paying for it.

Bottom line, If you are homebrewing beer just to save money, you may need to check your math. If you factor time into the equation, I think our beers cost quite a bit. However, if you enjoy it, 'saving money' is just a justification. Remember, you can define 'saving money' however you want. Tell the SWMBO that it will save you money. Ingredients per batch are cheaper.

Its only cheaper if you buy your base malts in bulk other wise it's not cheaper

brewjunky said:

Its only cheaper if you buy your base malts in bulk other wise it's not cheaper

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Not true, grains are always cheaper than extract even if it's not in bulk. Bulk is where you save some serious jack though.

I can get a 55pound of CMC pale 2row from NCM for about $58 shipped but a 50pound of light DME for about $118 shipped.
About $1.05 a pound for the base 2row
About $2.35 for the base extract.
Doesnt it take aboout 2 pounds of grain to ge the same sugar as 1 pound extract so i would only be saving about 25cents a pound going AG and crushing it

stever said:

Not true, grains are always cheaper than extract even if it's not in bulk. Bulk is where you save some serious jack though.

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Maybe where you come from but not where I am.

My LHBS charges 4.50 a KG so for say 10 lbs of base malt your looking at 20 dollars for base malt.

Then the specialty malts are like 5 bucks a KG but you don't need much there.

I can get a 7.2 LB tub of LME for 17 dollars.

So where I'm from its the same

I get 55# sacks of 2-row for 30 bucks so that's where it saves me money

I can easily say that it is not cheaper. First there is the extra cost of the AG equipment, then the propane to fuel the burner. If you use propane, that pretty much makes up the difference right there.

Then comes the kegs, then the fridges and taps, then the $5000 DIY basement remodel with wet bar and another $4-5000 to furnish it.

So no it isn't cheaper and I've only been doing this for like 6-8 months.

Mike

blk94f150 said:

Then comes the kegs, then the fridges and taps, then the $5000 DIY basement remodel with wet bar and another $4-5000 to furnish it.

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pics..........???

My belief is that any complex hobby undertaken under the premise of being "cheaper" rarely turns out being cheaper. While AG may be more inexpensive when just looking at the individual batch ingedients, I can pretty much guarantee that the money spent on the process as a whole will increase.

In the long run All Grain is cheaper that is true. But All Grain is not necessarily 'better'. Its more fun I think, but strictly judging by the beer you finish with - All Grain isn't appreciably better than extract or mini-mash.

If and when you realize or think that all grain ends up costing less you still are not spending less you simply start making more. I've been reloading rifle and pistol cartridges for qute some tome and it's the same thing. you do not spend less you shoot more.

I think that I make better beers now then I ever did with extract. I don't buy in bulk (no grain mill), but I bought enough for a month's worth of brewing from austinhomebrew.com at the beginning of August. Five batches of beer (I did have some of the hops, though, in the freezer, and I save yeast- but I did that for extracts, too) for just under $100. The grain came crushed and in plastic bags, and is ready to go.

So, an average of $20 per batch. I found a fairly local place where maris otter malt is $.95 a pound, so I'll probably go there next. I can make a house beer with 10 pounds of malt, and a few specialty grains, so I can buy the grain for a batch for $12 or so. I think that's way cheaper than I ever did an extract batch.

Who cares? AG is more fun and a better expierence!

bkov said:

I can get a 55pound of CMC pale 2row from NCM for about $58 shipped but a 50pound of light DME for about $118 shipped.
About $1.05 a pound for the base 2row
About $2.35 for the base extract.
Doesnt it take aboout 2 pounds of grain to ge the same sugar as 1 pound extract so i would only be saving about 25cents a pound going AG and crushing it

Click to expand...

Close, 1 lb of grain is equal to .6 lb of DME, so by your calculations they are close...

Depends on where you live. If you're out in BFE - as I am - and have to have all your supplies shipped then AG gets expensive pretty quick.

tuckferrorists said:

pics..........???

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Let me upload some teasers. I still have to get some furnature and the cabinet doors aren't in yet. (Nothing is ever in stock)

Then I have to figure out how to post them as I'm a bit buzzed ATM.

Mike

If you can buy grain in person then it will greatly reduce cost. Shipping these days is really expensive. You need to find a point of purchase that has bulk bags of grain at reasonable prices. Most of your adjuncts and other supplies can be bought on-line. You can save big time if you take the time to look around. All-grain is where you have complete control over the taste of the beer because you are mashing the grain and control the temperatures, time and when using liquid or dry malt you get whatever it happens to be. The grain also has flavors that will be sorely missing in a beer made without fresh malted grains. There is no substitute for using fresh cracked grain.

did he say Cheeper????? LOL LOL LMFAO!!!! This is a hobby..... RIGHT? [***sighs and shakes his head... CHEEPER now thats funny***]

Yes, it is cheaper. Be a man and start brewing like one!


end of discussion.

In the great words of my uncle...

"Honey, its either the golf clubs or a therapist, you pick!"

Wise man. Insert any hobby you like to replace 'golf clubs'.