The GaP (Grocery and Produce) Beer Experiment
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piersonm
Member
Awesome thread. I now have faith that humanity will have some kind of alcohol in a post apocalyptic world. I found this site http://www.thebrewsite.com/apocalypse-beer-ferment-anything/ which, in my opinion, sums up everything that has been talked about in this thread. Brew on!
*Bump*
So, on a facebook brewing group someone mentioned that there's a Homebrewer Character now on "Fear The Walking Dead" and evidently it's the most accurate portrayal of one of us on TV yet. I mentioned that on most brewing forums forever the topic of post-apocalyptic brewing has been around forever. And that in the dim dark recesses of HBT we had a grocery store challenge thread that every now and then got re-started. Thought maybe some of the newer folks would take up the mantle that a bunch of us started forever ago.
So, on a facebook brewing group someone mentioned that there's a Homebrewer Character now on "Fear The Walking Dead" and evidently it's the most accurate portrayal of one of us on TV yet. I mentioned that on most brewing forums forever the topic of post-apocalyptic brewing has been around forever. And that in the dim dark recesses of HBT we had a grocery store challenge thread that every now and then got re-started. Thought maybe some of the newer folks would take up the mantle that a bunch of us started forever ago.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
There's already been not one but two threads on the FTWD saison recipe, although that seems to assume access to a LHBS.
I think my comment on this thread would be that people are trying to do too much at once, it would be better to take individual parts of the problem and try to solve them separately using "good" ingredients for the other parts in any one beer.
For instance, here in the UK I know I can get (bottle-conditioned) Fuller's 1845 or Adnams minikegs in my local supermarket and I know that it also has sterile 1.050 sugar-water in the form of UHT apple juice, and yeast nutrient in the form of Marmite yeast extract. So in principle I could shake up some 1845 dregs and a dab of Marmite in a carton of UHT apple juice and know that it would work pretty well as a GaP starter culture. You could even mix juice/Marmite with gelatine to plate out yeast, using jam jar lids or something as Petri dishes. If we were in a zombie apocalypse and could flex the rules a tad, I could scavenge yeast from the empty casks at my local pub.
But I don't need to do all that for R&D purposes, I can use WLP002 as an interim measure which will be easier and more reliable whilst I work on more difficult aspects. As an aside - a lot of bread yeast is POF+, so makes phenolics like Belgian yeast, I'd trade one of my nubile slave girls in return for POF- yeast from eg bottle/cask dreg as it will mean better beer and more NSGs in the long run, if NSG numbers are your measure of success.
Malting/mashing is obviously the big problem. Beano is not a thing here, in fact I'm struggling to think where you could get any kind of enzymes off the top of my head. I like the banana idea, and surely potatoes must have huge amounts of amylase once they are chitted? I've also seen maize suggested as a good source of amylase. But the one I'd probably try first is (mung) bean sprouts, we literally eat malted beans, there must be a ton of enzymes in there.
But in the meantime, I know it is on the borderline between beer and "wine", I'd been thinking of using golden syrup as my fermentable with a dash of Marmite in it as yeast nutrient. Maybe boil pearl barley in it for barley taste, maybe some Scottish porridge oats for better mouthfeel.
We may not have Beano, but we do have anti-wind medication based on simet(h)icone, the active ingredient in Fermcap. So we can prevent boilovers, in fact even pre-zombies I use things like Deflatine as an alternative to Fermcap.
Water chemistry - the supermarket has citric acid, limescale cleaner, and I've been in supermarkets on the continent which sold eg hydrochoric acid. And there's always lemon juice and Coke for acidity adjustments... Keeping the pH down will help minimise tannin extraction from some of the weirder ingredients. Epsom salts and table salt are no problem, I'd have to go to the DIY shop/builders' merchants for building plaster, which is essentially impure gypsum, or (proper) Plaster of Paris which is the same stuff, dehydrated and a bit purer.
In the zombie scenario, I have access to wild hops and bog myrtle - a tea of the latter tastes surprisingly like an APA. But in GaP terms, I'd start looking for bitterness by using tonic water (preferably full-fat) as my brewing "water", and adjust bitterness adjustment using either Sodastream tonic concentrate, or Angostura. I've had a beer with hops and quinine in it, it does work, and your beer is fluorescent!
For flavouring my "pale", I guess lemon/orange/grapefruit zest, maybe a teabag or two. For a dark - coffee beans, cocoa nibs, some home-toasted grains.
I didn't intend it but I guess that's ended up as quite a British take on the problem - golden syrup and Marmite dissolved in tonic water with pearl barley and porridge oats, fermented with Fuller's yeast and flavoured in part with a teabag. But localism is part of the story, right?
I think my comment on this thread would be that people are trying to do too much at once, it would be better to take individual parts of the problem and try to solve them separately using "good" ingredients for the other parts in any one beer.
For instance, here in the UK I know I can get (bottle-conditioned) Fuller's 1845 or Adnams minikegs in my local supermarket and I know that it also has sterile 1.050 sugar-water in the form of UHT apple juice, and yeast nutrient in the form of Marmite yeast extract. So in principle I could shake up some 1845 dregs and a dab of Marmite in a carton of UHT apple juice and know that it would work pretty well as a GaP starter culture. You could even mix juice/Marmite with gelatine to plate out yeast, using jam jar lids or something as Petri dishes. If we were in a zombie apocalypse and could flex the rules a tad, I could scavenge yeast from the empty casks at my local pub.
But I don't need to do all that for R&D purposes, I can use WLP002 as an interim measure which will be easier and more reliable whilst I work on more difficult aspects. As an aside - a lot of bread yeast is POF+, so makes phenolics like Belgian yeast, I'd trade one of my nubile slave girls in return for POF- yeast from eg bottle/cask dreg as it will mean better beer and more NSGs in the long run, if NSG numbers are your measure of success.
Malting/mashing is obviously the big problem. Beano is not a thing here, in fact I'm struggling to think where you could get any kind of enzymes off the top of my head. I like the banana idea, and surely potatoes must have huge amounts of amylase once they are chitted? I've also seen maize suggested as a good source of amylase. But the one I'd probably try first is (mung) bean sprouts, we literally eat malted beans, there must be a ton of enzymes in there.
But in the meantime, I know it is on the borderline between beer and "wine", I'd been thinking of using golden syrup as my fermentable with a dash of Marmite in it as yeast nutrient. Maybe boil pearl barley in it for barley taste, maybe some Scottish porridge oats for better mouthfeel.
We may not have Beano, but we do have anti-wind medication based on simet(h)icone, the active ingredient in Fermcap. So we can prevent boilovers, in fact even pre-zombies I use things like Deflatine as an alternative to Fermcap.
Water chemistry - the supermarket has citric acid, limescale cleaner, and I've been in supermarkets on the continent which sold eg hydrochoric acid. And there's always lemon juice and Coke for acidity adjustments... Keeping the pH down will help minimise tannin extraction from some of the weirder ingredients. Epsom salts and table salt are no problem, I'd have to go to the DIY shop/builders' merchants for building plaster, which is essentially impure gypsum, or (proper) Plaster of Paris which is the same stuff, dehydrated and a bit purer.
In the zombie scenario, I have access to wild hops and bog myrtle - a tea of the latter tastes surprisingly like an APA. But in GaP terms, I'd start looking for bitterness by using tonic water (preferably full-fat) as my brewing "water", and adjust bitterness adjustment using either Sodastream tonic concentrate, or Angostura. I've had a beer with hops and quinine in it, it does work, and your beer is fluorescent!
For flavouring my "pale", I guess lemon/orange/grapefruit zest, maybe a teabag or two. For a dark - coffee beans, cocoa nibs, some home-toasted grains.
I didn't intend it but I guess that's ended up as quite a British take on the problem - golden syrup and Marmite dissolved in tonic water with pearl barley and porridge oats, fermented with Fuller's yeast and flavoured in part with a teabag. But localism is part of the story, right?
I haven’t finished reading through this thread yet, but I am wondering if; instead of Beano, can you soak some barley from the store, start it growing, and then stop it by heating in the oven? Would you get the enzymes you need for conversion from this?
I’m going to keep reading, as I find this topic fascinating. I have wild apple cider and wild sour cultures from my own grapes munching away in the “cupboard under the stairs” at the moment.
Pugnacious Brewing
Bare-knuckle Brewing since 2012
I have been reading through this conversation and am very intrigued. I am very interested in trying my hand, in the future at this idea.
I pose a question to all of you here.
Has anyone tried mashing rice and mango for your base? Perhaps even rice, raw wheat and mango? I saw people talking about bananas, but I’m still reading through to see how this worked. On my search for knowledge it seems that mango it very high in amylase enzyme and should be able to convert the grist. Any input on this idea?
I pose a question to all of you here.
Has anyone tried mashing rice and mango for your base? Perhaps even rice, raw wheat and mango? I saw people talking about bananas, but I’m still reading through to see how this worked. On my search for knowledge it seems that mango it very high in amylase enzyme and should be able to convert the grist. Any input on this idea?
I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but my first ever attempt to make beer was wholly from the grocery store. I haven't read the whole thread so, sorry if this has been said already.
I was much younger and had no idea home brewing was even a thing, or that there was a store for it nearby. I went to the library to read up on as much brewing literature as I could get a hold of to try and grasp the concept, albeit in a very rudimentary way.
After I felt I had an understanding of that, I went to whole foods for ingredients.
I cant recall the amounts at this point, but the 'grainbill' was flaked wheat and rolled barley flakes from the bulk section but I knew there were no enzymes here so I grabbed a couple bags of Bobs red mill malted barley flour(sometimes labeled diastatic barley flour
). I was not able to find bitter orange so I bought fresh sweet oranges and some coriander. I picked up a small block of fresh bread yeast.
I proceeded to mash this in a pot on my stove top for a little more than an hour before pouring it through a strainer lined with cheesecloth. This was boiled with a little sugar added and the spices. I let it cool in the sink in an ice water bath. I then poured it through a strainer into a bucket for fermentation with the bread yeast.
Keep reading, it gets worse
After fermentation, I 'bottled' this by pouring it into mason jars, though I did try to minimize splashing. The jars conditioned on the counter for 2-3 days before I got nervous they might blow and I put them in the fridge for a week or so before opening them.
Knowing what I know now, it wasn't good, but at the time I recall having quite impressed myself as I had most certainly made beer.
I have been a home brewer ever since. I was totally hooked. Ironically, shortly after that I saw a home brew store across town(probably because I wasn't looking before but now I am).
I bought a starter kit and ingredients for an extract batch there.
I was much younger and had no idea home brewing was even a thing, or that there was a store for it nearby. I went to the library to read up on as much brewing literature as I could get a hold of to try and grasp the concept, albeit in a very rudimentary way.
After I felt I had an understanding of that, I went to whole foods for ingredients.
I cant recall the amounts at this point, but the 'grainbill' was flaked wheat and rolled barley flakes from the bulk section but I knew there were no enzymes here so I grabbed a couple bags of Bobs red mill malted barley flour(sometimes labeled diastatic barley flour
). I was not able to find bitter orange so I bought fresh sweet oranges and some coriander. I picked up a small block of fresh bread yeast. I proceeded to mash this in a pot on my stove top for a little more than an hour before pouring it through a strainer lined with cheesecloth. This was boiled with a little sugar added and the spices. I let it cool in the sink in an ice water bath. I then poured it through a strainer into a bucket for fermentation with the bread yeast.
Keep reading, it gets worse
After fermentation, I 'bottled' this by pouring it into mason jars, though I did try to minimize splashing. The jars conditioned on the counter for 2-3 days before I got nervous they might blow and I put them in the fridge for a week or so before opening them.
Knowing what I know now, it wasn't good, but at the time I recall having quite impressed myself as I had most certainly made beer.
I have been a home brewer ever since. I was totally hooked. Ironically, shortly after that I saw a home brew store across town(probably because I wasn't looking before but now I am).
I bought a starter kit and ingredients for an extract batch there.
can you use the local feed store for this challenge? i all ready malt my own, so i'd just need to find something for hops/bittering then? i suppose they probably sell wheat berries i could malt at the health food store?
And i have brewed a rice beer from a 20lb bag of rice from the store quite a few times, but had to use amylase and gluco for it....and A LOT of rice hulls...
and yes, this thread is new to me. And i haven't read all 328 posts yet....
And i have brewed a rice beer from a 20lb bag of rice from the store quite a few times, but had to use amylase and gluco for it....and A LOT of rice hulls...
and yes, this thread is new to me. And i haven't read all 328 posts yet....
Posted this elsewhere...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sweet-potato-mash-experiment.211386/page-2
Similar to aomagman78...
I made all sweet potato beer (added 8oz of 6 row for enzyme activity just in case). I peeled, grated sweet potato. Held at 140F in 'mash' step, removed sweet potatoes from water, and boiled separately. Put the boiled sweet potatoes in a blender, and returned to mash now at 152F for 90min. I ended up at 1.048 (2.5 gal) with 6 kilos of grated potato. Added Saaz, and S04 which devoured the sugars, leaving me at 1.004. I pulled it off the trub (lots of it) within 10 days, as suggested previously. Now I'm holding at 60F and it's starting to clear up a bit.
Any suggestions on flavorings for secondary? I'm splitting my batch into several 1 gallon secondaries to test some ideas. I want to stay away from pumpkin pie, as I already made one for fall.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sweet-potato-mash-experiment.211386/page-2
Similar to aomagman78...
I made all sweet potato beer (added 8oz of 6 row for enzyme activity just in case). I peeled, grated sweet potato. Held at 140F in 'mash' step, removed sweet potatoes from water, and boiled separately. Put the boiled sweet potatoes in a blender, and returned to mash now at 152F for 90min. I ended up at 1.048 (2.5 gal) with 6 kilos of grated potato. Added Saaz, and S04 which devoured the sugars, leaving me at 1.004. I pulled it off the trub (lots of it) within 10 days, as suggested previously. Now I'm holding at 60F and it's starting to clear up a bit.
Any suggestions on flavorings for secondary? I'm splitting my batch into several 1 gallon secondaries to test some ideas. I want to stay away from pumpkin pie, as I already made one for fall.
Some time ago I was researching old newspapers as part of an ancestry search and came across a recipe for pea pod beer in a newspaper from 1809. I think it matches the spirit of this challenge and has the added benefit of being a "heritage" recipe.
Here's the link:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11491660/pea_pod_beer_831809_north_carolina/
Here's the link:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11491660/pea_pod_beer_831809_north_carolina/
Wolfbayte
Third Most Interesting Man in his Cul-de-Sac
Interesting. Methinks the author hath bottled too early and risked ye olde bottle bombs
RevA
Well-Known Member
Love the thread.
Every now and then I post the link on facebook brewing forums hoping to get people excited about trying it.
What's interesting now is that since this thread so much more brewing knowledge, especially because of this place has occurred... much of what we tired (and usually failed at) here is similar to what gluten free brewers have now figured out to handle alternative ingredients, like the various flours and grains you'd fine in the baking aisle....
Revvy!
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
So, this thread is starting to look more relevant.... 
I tried making a buckwheat beer using flour. Other than it being a gelatinous, messy mash, it has an interesting sour character to it that is not unpleasant. I will try for groats next time.
bstacy1974
Well-Known Member
Had the wife pick up some minute rice, quick oats, and quick grits the other day. Thinking of an American lager, pilsner malt, rice and corn, with sterling and crystal hops.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
Excited to catch up on this thread. I'm not sure why I haven't seen it before, but I could swear I heard about it in another thread.
Stoked to see what you guys have done
Stoked to see what you guys have done
hmmm......
So, this thread is starting to look more relevant....
hmmm....and a year passed between these posts.....
Fergusbalbriggan
New Member
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Kitchen Cupboard Barleywine Bochet
A barleywine style mead with honey and hops
SCALE 1x2x3x
A barleywine style mead with honey and hops
- Author: BC
SCALE 1x2x3x
- 3.3 cups roasted pearl barley
- 3.3 cups toasted oats
- 6.6 pounds caramelized honey
- 3.3 pounds raw honey
- 1.6 cups grape concentrate
- 2oz Centennial hops
- Water to five gallons
- EC-1118 Yeast
- 0.8 cups grape concentrate for priming
- Roast and toast the barley and oats in the oven until golden brown.
- Cold steep grains in brewing water for 3-4 days.
- Strain out grains.
- Divide hops into thirds.
- Add 1/3 of hops, raw honey, and 1.6 cups grape juice to the fermentation vessel along with the half of the grain tea.
- Place a gallon of water on to boil.
- At boil, add second 1/3 hops to the boil.
- After 15 minutes, add the remaining 1/3 hops, kill heat, cool five minutes, and strain hops out.
- Add hops tea to fermentation vessel.
- Carefully caramelize the remaining honey for one hour on medium heat, stirring constantly.
- Add a remainder of cold grain tea to the caramelized honey, stir.
- Mix must together, top up to five gallons.
- Ferment dry, then prime in bottle with grape concentrate.
- For best results, watch the video prior to making!
