cider not clearing (with pics!)

I started my cider on Feb 18. It fermented pretty quick and hit 1.002 in about 10 days. I racked to secondary on March 1 and moved it to the basement to age/clear. I've been concerned about it's slow clearing rate, but figured it just needs more time. However, it's now 3 months post-start, 2.5 months post secondary and it's still very opaque. I'm starting to worry it won't ever clear. I'm going to rack it to tertiary now, but any ideas why this is taking so long?

Here are some pics:

How warm is your basement?

Was it natural apple cider or apple juice? I have some cider made from fresh cider from an orchard. I made it the day after election day in November and it's not clear yet.

B

bad coffee said:

How warm is your basement?

Was it natural apple cider or apple juice? I have some cider made from fresh cider from an orchard. I made it the day after election day in November and it's not clear yet.

B

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It was natural apple cider from Whole Foods. Original recipe is here

JLem said:

I started my cider on Feb 18. It fermented pretty quick and hit 1.002 in about 10 days. I racked to secondary on March 1 and moved it to the basement to age/clear. I've been concerned about it's slow clearing rate, but figured it just needs more time. However, it's now 3 months post-start, 2.5 months post secondary and it's still very opaque. I'm starting to worry it won't ever clear. I'm going to rack it to tertiary now, but any ideas why this is taking so long?

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Haha, nice. I'm no pro at ciders but that's a lot of trub. Have you pulled a sample to see what it tastes like?

Every natural/organic cider I've ever made has taken ages to clear, even with cool. You can try adding bentonite to it, that should help it clear in a few weeks.

MikeG said:

Have you pulled a sample to see what it tastes like?

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Of course :cross:. It tastes awesome - basically just like I had hoped. Not too dry, plenty of taste. It doesn't look too bad in the glass - maybe I won't wait until it clears completely....

How warm is your basement?

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My basement temp is probably near 60 F - might have been colder when it first went down there back in March.

Also, when I racked the cider, it had a TON of CO2 bubbles - practically sparkling - you could hear the hiss coming out of the carboy in the next room (OK, I'm exaggerating a little). I assume that this is OK - just the CO2 coming out of solution after sitting in the colder basement for a few months?

Gelatin and pectic enzyme will work magic on your cider. It got mine crystal clear within a few days. Read the last post I just put in the thread here about whole foods cider.

The cider I have in bottles now, was from "natural" juice that was cloudy when I bought it. So I suspected it wouldn't clear without some chemical help. I wasn't looking for a clear product so I just let it run it's course and bottled it. About a month in Primary and about a month in Secondary. Tasted great, and the gravity was very steady. So I backsweetened and bottle carbed.

So the short answer is how clear do you want it? Really clear, then hit it with some of the chemicals already mentioned.

MacBruver said:

Gelatin and pectic enzyme will work magic on your cider. It got mine crystal clear within a few days. Read the last post I just put in the thread here about whole foods cider.

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Do you use both the gelatin and the pectic? Or one or the other? I have some gelatin sitting in the pantry, but no pectic enzyme.

I used both. The gelatin worked better for me anyway, so I would go for that first. It works amazingly well.

tips on Gelatin - don't boil the water. Do a search on here for using gelatin (there are tons of threads in the beer forum) but yeah don't boil the water that and use unflavoured gelatin and it helps to put it into your carboy (still warm - not hot, but warm) and then rack your cider over it and then crash cool.

I read on here something about thermodynamics about the warm gelatin water mix rising as the cooler cider sits and that the gelatin will go down as it cools dragging the yeast with it. Thats what I do and it seems to do the trick within a couple days.

Pectic enzyme I typically add before fermentation. I don't use gelatin unless I have an issue---all my ciders clear naturally. In your case, I'd suggest gelatin finings.

With a gallon jug like this, you can just pour the gelatin in, cap it, and shake the hell out of it. There's no real worry about re-suspending any stuff at the bottom of the jug, it will fall out really quickly again anyway. Check out BierMuncher's posts in this thread, I followed his methods for blooming/dissolving the yeast:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/gelatin-finings-53912/

OK. More questions:

1) Any disadvantages to using gelatin? In other words, any problems associated with speeding up the natural clearing process? I don't want to sacrifice quality for speed.

2) What is dropping out - suspended apple particles?

I used pectic enzyme in the Secondary. Cleared it up in a few days. I believe it is the pectin in the cider that makes it cloudy.

Where can you buy pectic enzyme? The only downside to gelatin is that it's not vegetarian, which would be a problem in our house.

Egg white? Then you can fry the lees after racking, and have them for breakfast.

As I suggested before, bentonite also works well. It's clay, so no veggie issues there.

What yeast did you use? Some yeasts clear more readily than others. Regards, GF.

i also have a batch of cloudy cider in secondary. Can you use a wine filter and filter pads to clear a cider or will it get clogged up? i will be force carbing afterwards.

gratus fermentatio said:

What yeast did you use? Some yeasts clear more readily than others. Regards, GF.

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I used WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast

UPDATE:

It's been 2.5 weeks since I racked to tertiary and I still see little signs of clearing. At this rate it will be Christmas before I bottle this cider. I'm not THAT patient.

So, I just boiled up some water, poured 1/2 cup into a Pyrex measuring cup, cooled to ~170 degrees F, stirred in 1/2 Tbsp of Knox, unflavored gelatin, let it sit for 20 minutes, and then poured it carefully into my 3-gallon carboy of cider (tilted the carboy and poured the gelatin down the side to avoid oxidation as much as possible). Hopefully this does the trick. I'll report back in a couple of days.

You used a beer yeast, don't worry about clarity.

That stuff is good right now for sure. Clarity is not even a factor for me when doing Ciders. Have you ever seen a clear non-alcoholic cider? Cider doesn't need to be clear IMO.

The gelatin finings should take that stuff pretty clear in a matter of days. I've never had a cider take longer than 2 months to clear, even starting with cloudy juice.

Brandon O said:

You used a beer yeast, don't worry about clarity.

That stuff is good right now for sure. Clarity is not even a factor for me when doing Ciders. Have you ever seen a clear non-alcoholic cider? Cider doesn't need to be clear IMO.

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Oh, I agree, it is purely aesthetic at this point - just me trying to reach a pre-conceived end point. It tastes fine as it stands now (I'd venture to say great even). I'm not overly worried about it.

JLem said:

(tilted the carboy and poured the gelatin down the side to avoid oxidation as much as possible)

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You really want to get all that gelatin in suspension to get the maximum effects out of it. If it just made its way to the bottom of your carboy it won't be able to do much. How much head space do you have? You may want to get some sort of sanitized stick in there, or even a wine thief or something, and swirl up the gelatin if you can't shake the carboy.

Brandon O said:

You used a beer yeast, don't worry about clarity.

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It all depends on the specific yeast... any moderately flocculant yeast will fall out pretty quickly. I used munton's dry ale yeast, and with the gelatin my cider came out crystal clear. I started with brown, cloudy, organic cider.

I know it *shouldn't* affect the taste, but the more stuff I brew, the more I'm noticing how much the visual experience has an effect. It's totally mental, but it's definitely there.