Counterflow Wort Chiller Build (and use)

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going to cook again in a few days and i have some ideas for the chiller. right now, i throttle the wort flow using the ball valve on my kettle. the flow isn't great enough to completely fill the line, so i think it just tricklesalong the bottom part of the line and doesn't have total contact with the cooling surface.

do you guys think it would be better to put a piece of tubing on the outlet, open the kettle ball valve completely and throttle flow using a pinch clamp at the outlet? this way more wort will be incontact with the cooling surface in the chiller.
 
I am not yet an AG brewer; but subscribed to this thread because that is where I will be going next, and loved the design of this chiller. I think you have an excellent idea and should take it one step further and put a ball valve at the outlet. You could open the valve at the kettle, then adjust the actual flow at the outlet based on the end temp of the wort. Once you dial it in, it could possibly flow continuously (albeit at a much lower rate) without having to fiddle with a clamp.
 
Again, since my tap water kicks copious amounts of ass, I fully open my kettle valve and let er rip into the chiller full flow. I barely even have to turn the water half way.

I think your idea is a good one, and certainly worth a shot. You could be right, but I haven't seen your flow rate in person. Let us know how that works for you!

TB
 
Tiber_Brew said:
It's pretty nice to have, although not entirely necessary. But, hey, why not? :)


:off: you still coming to the UP in July?
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I hope you guys will talk me off a ledge- I spent a lot of time and money fabricating a "super chiller" like that discussed here (minus the thermowell, d'oh!) because my tap temp in summer is ~90'F (Stupid Tucson!). I used 50' of 3/8" OD tubing stuffed at great personal effort into a 50' 5/8" garden hose purchased at Lowe's for ~$20. First mistake. I soldered on the endcaps as others have, tested it with great success (I prechill the incoming tap via a complex heat exchanger that was built by my company but failed in testing), but after actually implementing the coil in my new brewstand I think the heat of the Boil Kettle is destroying my cheap-o hose from Lowe's. My first indication was a sizable blister forming at the top of the coil- a couple of quick, judicious turns of duct tape reinforced it, and I set a ceramic tile on top of the whole works to shield it from the reflected heat. After chilling (it worked perfectly- 65'F output wort temp) I noticed that my garage was wetter than it shoulda been. Opposite side of the chiller from where I "preventatively" reinforced developed a pin-hole leak along with a nice 6" long blister).

I have several questions, and am wildly appreciative of any and all advice:
1) Stuffing that much copper through a hose was a major PITA (I hurt for days afterwards), so how good is Duct Tape at repairing water leaks in garden hose? I'd rather just wrap it up and go then redo the entire shebang.

2) Those of you with experience, does a higher quality hose hold up better? Of course it should, but we're exposing it to environments it wasn't meant to withstand.

3) Given my shell-shocked nature of spending a day threading this damn thing and having it fail the first time I really use it, are there any recommendations on hose type/brand/construction from those that have brewed multiple times with such a configuration?

4) I'm considering "fixing" my current CFC, but am really unable to move it significantly away from where it currently lives. If/when I fix it, I'm thinking of adding two layers of thin steal above it to shield the heat from the main BK burner. What are you guys doing that I might benefit from?

5) How the heck do I post pictures? If I can show you where my CFC is in comparisson to my BK I think a lot of the previous text (perhaps 1000 words?) would be unnecessary! Does this work? View from BK end- CFC is ~8-10 inches away from bottom of kettle.
 
1.) if the damaged hose it towards the end, you can cut out that piece of hose and move all of you copper fittings inward.

5,) I'd love to know this answer. My gallery is useless. Half the pictures I upload here disappear.

Here's my setup. The chiller is far from the kettle and receives no radiant heat from it. Silicone tubing used to transfer from the kettle to the chiller.
 
1. It's ok for a temporary fix. Wouldn't be my choice though. Pick up some self amalgamating electrical tape. It will do a much better job and should be in everyone's toolbox.

2. Can't speak to all hose but I've used a hot water rubber hose similar to this one http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 without problems.

3. The construction in this thread would work fine. Just keep it a little further from any heat sources and compensate for the additional line by adjusting your volumes if you're getting line loss as a result.

4. Moving it would be best but you can try a mineral wool batt with a reflective barrier
 
Tiber_Brew said:
We're willing to help, but you probably should've started your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

ETA: to try and not sound like a total d*ck, I'd like to try to help you if you have started your own thread. Do you have a link to it?
Click to expand...

Tiber, I'm sorry, I read through all 5 pages before posting and saw similar requests for help. Not sure how I hijacked this one (am I off-topic?)? Thought that discussing the water portion of a CFC would add to the already lively discussion. Further, most forums I've been on don't like duplicate topics, so I thought I should append my related issues to an already-going thread. What should I do in the future?

To the rest, thanks! I hacked off about two feet of damaged hose and added some unions so I can more easily extract this from my rig if need be in the future. I also added some sheet steel as indicated. I like the idea of mineral (wool batt) fiber insulation mentioned previously (Suggestion from Thirteen) but that sounds like asbestos to me...does anyone have more information about this? Where can I buy it? What is it?
 
SoopirV900 said:
Tiber, I'm sorry, I read through all 5 pages before posting and saw similar requests for help. Not sure how I hijacked this one (am I off-topic?)? Thought that discussing the water portion of a CFC would add to the already lively discussion. Further, most forums I've been on don't like duplicate topics, so I thought I should append my related issues to an already-going thread. What should I do in the future?
Click to expand...
I would say I'm the wrong person to ask about that. I'll answer CFC build questions, but not thread structure ones.

Let's just continue diagnosing and solving your problem on this thread. I'm fine with that.

TiberletssolvethisproblemBrew
 
Hi, I'm considering making one of these but wondering how long it should be... I'd say I have 'average' temp. tap water? :confused: Thanks guys, looks like a good build!!
 
JayPowHound said:
Hi, I'm considering making one of these but wondering how long it should be... I'd say I have 'average' temp. tap water? :confused: Thanks guys, looks like a good build!!
Click to expand...

We'll need more information than that. What is "avg tap water temp" in MA? Is your beer gravity fed into the chiller? How high is the Kettle relative to where the carboy will be?

Let's see if we can get some 'back of the envelope' estimation for ya and get you started.

TB
 
To be honest with you I had never really thought about the temp of my tap water before, but I just checked and it seems to be between 65 and 70F My beer will be gravity fed from the kettle on a kitchen counter top to the carboy on the floor. 'Back of the envelope' estimate away, thanks!!
 
My siphon pump and tubing are 1/2" and the bottom of the kettle will sit 35" higher than the bottom of the carboy on the kitchen counter. I love talking to engineers about stuff like this, cheers! Thanks for the help!!
 
So with that delta h and 1/2" fittings, you'll get decent flow rate. With ~70F tap water temps you've got a couple options for counter flow chillers.

Option 1:
Use a 25-30 ft chiller with a pre-chiller submerged in an ice water bath to cool down your input water temps. It's a bit more involved, and adds some cost, but you will have no problem with chilling to pitching temps with that setup.

Option 2:
Use 40-50 ft chiller with no pre-chiller. You might have to play with your beer flow rate via a ball valve on warm days, but you should get within a few degrees of your water source. The 50 ft of Cu tubing will increase fluid friction on your beer flow, so your flow rate will decrease, giving you a better heat exchange. There are also several variables that I made assumptions on. If I were you, I'd err on the safe side and build one as long as you can (typically Cu tubing is sold in 50 ft coils). The use of a pre-chiller can always be added later if you have problems without one. Assuming 100% efficiency (which you won't achieve), you'll still only be able to chill to the coldest temperature of your tap water. To chill to anything less, you'll need a pre-chiller.

Do you have a ball valve on your kettle output?

Is your water temp the same year round, or does it go down in the winter?

TB
 
CoastalCowboy said:
Was there a reason that rubber was used for the outer tube and not tygon?
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First, I had never heard of that. Second, upon looking it up, it costs the same amount for 5 feet of Tygon as does 50 ft of good quality Craftsman rubber hose. The rubber hose also comes with the garden hose fittings.

Have you, or anyone else used Tygon for a CF chiller? If so, do you have a link?

Thanks,
TB
 
Tiber_Brew said:
... Have you, or anyone else used Tygon for a CF chiller? If so, do you have a link?
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I've not used that or hose either for that matter. I really do like your build though.

I use copper in copper for my CFC builds.

still-chi-6a.jpg


Another view:
DSC00011.JPG


(BTW - I sent you an email reply earlier today.)
 
Tiber_Brew said:
First, I had never heard of that. Second, upon looking it up, it costs the same amount for 5 feet of Tygon as does 50 ft of good quality Craftsman rubber hose. The rubber hose also comes with the garden hose fittings.

Have you, or anyone else used Tygon for a CF chiller? If so, do you have a link?
Click to expand...

The reason I ask is that, for nutrient-rich fluid handling, I'm used to using tygon in the labs I've worked in, while rubber is considered to be too prone to colonization and too difficult to adequately clean. Of course, since I work in molecular biology and with cell culture, the standards of brewing vs. what I'm used to may not need to be as stringent.
 
CoastalCowboy said:
The reason I ask is that, for nutrient-rich fluid handling, I'm used to using tygon in the labs I've worked in, while rubber is considered to be too prone to colonization and too difficult to adequately clean. Of course, since I work in molecular biology and with cell culture, the standards of brewing vs. what I'm used to may not need to be as stringent.
Click to expand...

The rubber hose carries only the cooling water. There is no need to clean or sanitize it. The hose never comes into contact with the wort. Tygon would probably be more expensive than an ordinary rubber hose and there would be no advantage to using it over rubber.
 
Catt22 said:
The rubber hose carries only the cooling water. There is no need to clean or sanitize it. The hose never comes into contact with the wort. Tygon would probably be more expensive than an ordinary rubber hose and there would be no advantage to using it over rubber.
Click to expand...

Now I understand. It's not good for me to look at DIY plans in the middle of the night.
 
Anybody feel like posting how much one of these constructed ones would cost, ballpark? I'm interested in giving it a go.:mug:
 
This one cost me $40. I was able to make 3 with the quantity of material I had to buy and recoup some of my cost by selling the remaining 2. Of course, that's with making shorter coils.

If you want to build a couple 20-25 footers and split the cost with a friend, you'd probably be looking at $50-60 bucks. If you leave out the temp probe and temp probe fittings, you can do it a bit cheaper, too - around $35-40.

YMMV.

TB
 
i'm sure the price varies drastically depending on what you can snag on sale. think it cost me about $40. if i had a random hose sitting around, it wold have cost half that.
 
Made a similar one when I started brewing, still works great. The hose I used has two rips running all the way through. THose I think help break down any deap spots. Cooling is now no problem. I use a wort chiller first, with whirpool pipe. Try and get temp down to 140º or 150º, then through CFC, where it takes it to Pitch temp.

Water from chilling is used for clean up, already warmed up and ready for PBW.

I like your black hose. Looks a lot better than my green one!
 
How does the wort transfer so well through the counterflow chiller? Do you use a pump or is it strictly gravitational flow? It would seem like the wort would not run very fast without a pump or even could get clogged up if you transferred trub as well.
 
FishFace said:
Made a similar one when I started brewing, still works great. The hose I used has two rips running all the way through. THose I think help break down any deap spots. Cooling is now no problem. I use a wort chiller first, with whirpool pipe. Try and get temp down to 140º or 150º, then through CFC, where it takes it to Pitch temp.

Water from chilling is used for clean up, already warmed up and ready for PBW.

I like your black hose. Looks a lot better than my green one!
Click to expand...
Thanks! Do you use an IC before your pass through the CFC because of high tap water temps?

DieterVonBrauhaus said:
How does the wort transfer so well through the counterflow chiller? Do you use a pump or is it strictly gravitational flow? It would seem like the wort would not run very fast without a pump or even could get clogged up if you transferred trub as well.
Click to expand...
Again, this was for my old setup, and I do use a pump for my new one. However, with my old setup, I strictly used gravity feed through the chiller. You can kind of see the height difference in the last pic from the kettle to the bottom of the output hose. With the chiller being only 15' and having a couple feet vertical drop, the wort flowed nicely through the chiller. It never clogged, although I did whirlpool before opening the valve.

TB
 
Tiber_Brew said:
The thermometer doesn't go into a reducer in my case. I drilled a small hole in a rubber stopper, poked the thermometer through it, then stuck the stopper in the top hole on the tee.

Everything else looks pretty accurate to my build.

Nice work on creating the picture!
Click to expand...

What size rubber stopper is that - a #00? Do you think a pre-drilled would work with the thermometer?
 
mistercameron said:
What size rubber stopper is that - a #00? Do you think a pre-drilled would work with the thermometer?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, bud, I'm not sure what size stopper it is. A friend of mine got it from the chem lab. I can measure it if you want.

I don't think predrilled would work since the hole might be too large for the thermometer. I drilled a small hole in it and the thermometer fits nice and tight.

TB
 
Seeing as how there seems to be a couple of engineers posting here...

I happened to get some access to some free 3/4" hose. I was wondering if this might also work if I used a 1/2" copper tube at around 20 feet long. Not sure of my tap water temps in the summer. I would guess its around 55-ish? I'm in the process of building a keggle and I pland to have a valve at the outlet, so I suppose I could throttle that to control temps, but otherwise do you think I might get too much laminar flow through the copper?
 
P-J said:
I've not used that or hose either for that matter. I really do like your build though.

I use copper in copper for my CFC builds.

still-chi-6a.jpg


Another view:
DSC00011.JPG


(BTW - I sent you an email reply earlier today.)
Click to expand...


what size copper tubing did you use for the outer bit of copper for the water?
 

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