The Great Makgeolli Experiment

SteveHoward said:

I haven't been on here for several years I think, but for some reason I was notified of this message on this thread .

Since I was on here, my wife, our youngest and I have moved back to Korea. I don't make makkeolli anymore because it is so easy and cheap to get really good makkgeolli here. One of my wife's brothers, his wife, and I go out to makkeolli houses occasionally where they make their own stuff, and usually serve food, too. If you get to Korea, I have to recommend finding one of these as this is SO MUCH BETTER than what you buy in the bottle. They have some interesting recipes and variations, too. One of my favorites that I found while out with some work colleagues (all Korean folks) had ginseng in it. That actually added quite an interesting flavor.

In answer to stever1000, has it fermented? If it has, then you probably haven't done anything wrong. It's just time to strain/filter the big stuff out after about 5 - 7 days. The finished product should have some fine sediment if you let it set for a while, though. You have to mix it up to drink it as it doesn't have much flavor if you leave the sediment out.

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Thanks for your reply. I ended up waiting until day 6 and straining it. I diluted it about 2:1 Makgeolli:water and added sugar. It tasted great and didn't last long. It wasn't as strong %ABV as I was expecting. I'm on batch two already and changed the ratio's around to align with this thread.

Do you know exactly what the amount of nuruk does? I have seen websites list anywhere from one pound (454g) to 1 cup (100g). The first batch I did I used 100g and the second I am using 200g.

SteveHoward, where are you in Korea? I just moved back to Canada after living there for a year. I lived in Changwon (near Busan/Pusan) but made trips throughout the country every weekend and holiday. And I agree about the makgeolli in Korea, it's too cheap to warrant making it at home. My fondest memory is a makgeolli bar in Seoul that offered all-you-can drink for about 5-6000 won. Paired with pajeon and dubu kimchi, I was in heaven!

Thanks for the help

gotta disagree utterly with that. makgeolli is the saddest alcohol korea makes after green bottle dollar soju. virtually impossible to find one out of the hundreds of types that isn't sweetened disgustingly with aspartame or weird artificial sweeteners. i know one store available makgeolli not sweetened, but through pathetic brewing it ends up being unpleasantly sour.

made makgeolli at home, it only turns sour if you brew it like a byungshin shigol halmae who doesn't understand what bacteria are. made significantly better product for half the (admittedly already cheap) store price.

second batch is a lot more "bubbly" than the first. Interested to find out the final taste!

stever1000 said:

Thanks for your reply. I ended up waiting until day 6 and straining it. I diluted it about 2:1 Makgeolli:water and added sugar. It tasted great and didn't last long. It wasn't as strong %ABV as I was expecting. I'm on batch two already and changed the ratio's around to align with this thread.

Do you know exactly what the amount of nuruk does? I have seen websites list anywhere from one pound (454g) to 1 cup (100g). The first batch I did I used 100g and the second I am using 200g.

SteveHoward, where are you in Korea? I just moved back to Canada after living there for a year. I lived in Changwon (near Busan/Pusan) but made trips throughout the country every weekend and holiday. And I agree about the makgeolli in Korea, it's too cheap to warrant making it at home. My fondest memory is a makgeolli bar in Seoul that offered all-you-can drink for about 5-6000 won. Paired with pajeon and dubu kimchi, I was in heaven!

Thanks for the help

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I live in the Haeundae-Gu area of Busan. More specifically, I live in the "Marine City" district. I can see Gwangan bridge, Gwangalli, and Dongbaek-Seom from my house if that gives you an idea. I make a trip to Seoul almost every week as a lot of my business is there, and I make it to other parts occasionally. The main area I make it to outside of Busan proper or Seoul is Ulsan, and that is because our nephew has a restaurant there that we like to visit.

I can't remember right now how much nuruk I used, but I posted it in the recipe I posted on a thread here.

I love it in Korea. I love the food - especially the seafood around Busan. I love the atmosphere. I love my wife's family ... I'm not sure I'll come back this time. It probably depends on whether I can continue to make the trip to see our daughters and their families often enough. I know my elder daughter and her husband would like to move to Korea themselves, but I don't think that's possible right now.

fredthecat said:

gotta disagree utterly with that. makgeolli is the saddest alcohol korea makes after green bottle dollar soju. virtually impossible to find one out of the hundreds of types that isn't sweetened disgustingly with aspartame or weird artificial sweeteners. i know one store available makgeolli not sweetened, but through pathetic brewing it ends up being unpleasantly sour.

made makgeolli at home, it only turns sour if you brew it like a byungshin shigol halmae who doesn't understand what bacteria are. made significantly better product for half the (admittedly already cheap) store price.

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I'm not sure who you're responding to, but if it was me, the stuff at the makgeolli houses I was talking about isn't like the bottled makgeolli at all. Even among the bottled ones, though, I don't think I've found one that is sweet. I've found a number i don't think have much flavor, though.

Do you know what that expression you used means? I've read a few of your other posts, and know you have had contact with Korea, and are possibly here now. I'm guessing you probably picked that up around US military bases - just my best guess because that is an EXTREMELY disrespectful term that I've never heard from the Korean folks I hang with ... like the kind of terms that usually are given to the newby in military bases to say to someone because you know it will get a very bad reaction he says it to, and it doesn't have the kind of emotional impact on someone who doesn't know the language or culture that it will with people here. It's an expression that is sure to give the native-speaking Korean hearers a negative impression of the speaker.

FWIW, taking your expression literally, the first word literally means 'Deformed.' The second word means "Country" and the third is an informal term for "Grandma" that is used mostly around the Busan area - most people from elsewhere in Korea use the full term "Halmoni." Makgeolli was mostly a country or blue-collar drink up until very recently, though, and that is where one of its other names comes from: nong-ju which means "Farmer's liquor." The country grandmas are probably the ones that invented it and kept it going.

It's only very recently that makgeolli has been anything other than a blue-collar or farmer's drink ... something country grandmas would make and drink whether they are malformed or not.

Today, it's almost considered like a health food for many people when it is made like it is in the makgeolli houses. You can get a number of varieties in these places that have never been bottled. Like I mentioned earlier, some have ginseng in them, and some have other herbs or flavors added in, and it's to each what he will like or not like.

heol keukeukeu "deformed" anirago, "--a more creative term--" itjana, niga geunyang sajeoneuro deuthaetna? nae malseumga maumdeuro deoigoshipgeoda. uri gaengsaengminguk saturi baeura

not really interested in your micro history lesson, and just a little fact: if you could read korean you would see that literally every bottled makkeoli including the delicious geumgangsan and taehwaru have aspartame or weird artificial sugars added to them.

and one more time, read through and understand AKtaylor's incredible instructions on how to make sake, then try to apply some fundamentals from it towards makkeoli and you end up with a vastly superior product. undiluted and with solids settled out it is more like cheongju or nigorisake. below 52 degrees fahrenheit the lacto producing bacteria become largely dormant.

fredthecat said:

heol keukeukeu "deformed" anirago, "--a more creative term--" itjana, niga geunyang sajeoneuro deuthaetna? nae malseumga maumdeuro deoigoshipgeoda. uri gaengsaengminguk saturi baeura

not really interested in your micro history lesson, and just a little fact: if you could read korean you would see that literally every bottled makkeoli including the delicious geumgangsan and taehwaru have aspartame or weird artificial sugars added to them.

and one more time, read through and understand AKtaylor's incredible instructions on how to make sake, then try to apply some fundamentals from it towards makkeoli and you end up with a vastly superior product. undiluted and with solids settled out it is more like cheongju or nigorisake. below 52 degrees fahrenheit the lacto producing bacteria become largely dormant.

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이롷게? 예, 한국어 읽을 수 있어요. 하지만, 니가 한글로 안 썼으니까 좀 어렵다. 저음에 읽은 다음에 모르겠다고 생각 해서 우리 아내한테 물어봤어요. 우리 아내도 정말 나쁜 말! 이라고 했어요. 그름 갱생민국 사투리 표현을 잘 설명해 주세요. 나는 아내하고 알고 싶어요. 하지만, 한국어로 설명하고 싶으면 한글로 썼으면 좋겠어요.

That's fine if someone wants to do that. However; when you start doing that, you're veering more and more away from what makgeolli was originally. Whether or not it is a "vastly superior product" is entirely a matter of opinion, and also depends on what someone is trying to accomplish. There's nothing wrong with doing it - I love experimentation, too. I just don't think you're trying to do the same thing when you start that. I think there is nothing wrong with trying to replicate things like what was made in my wife's house when she was growing up, and what I have had elsewhere. I'd equate it to eating stinky tofu when I lived in China. Not everybody likes it, but I did. I'm sure somebody can tell me it would be vastly superior if someone applied processes used elsewhere to change the texture or flavor, and there's nothing wrong with someone doing that if they like it, but when they do, they're doing something besides the stinky tofu in the local tradition where I was at that time.

Look, I'm not trying to fight, and I'm not trying to get into a match to see who can piss the highest. I'm giving my opinion, and I express it as my opinion.

The recipe I started with was just what my wife remembered about when her mother made it when she was growing up. It turned out like what I remembered getting in Korea (again, not the bottled stuff). That's when I posted my original recipe just as something someone could follow that turned out like what I remembered it being.

My personal opinion is that it needs a little bit of tartness to add the character to the flavor. I developed that taste I suppose because that's what I remembered of it originally. It lacks character IMO if it tastes chalky, and I don't like sweet drinks. I don't perceive what I have had as sweet. However; what is served in the makgeolli houses that make their own stuff is generally better, and I have enjoyed the ones that add things like ginseng.

If someone wants to insist that it MUST be made a certain way that is different, or tastes different from what I have had, I don't have a problem with the different tastes or different methods, but I usually object to someone insisting that one particular way is "THE" way that something MUST be done, and that is the perception I got that I replied to, and the reference to people making something that sounded like a derisive term for other people did get me going. Who knows, maybe my mother-in-law was supposed to be one of those ...

That's all I'm saying on the matter. If someone wants to experiment, more power to them - I hope they find something they like. I will disagree with anybody who says that it must be done a certain way, or with someone who insists that it is a universal thing that one way is just vastly superior to another.

i had makkeoli with mango juice last night.

SteveHoward said:

I live in the Haeundae-Gu area of Busan. More specifically, I live in the "Marine City" district. I can see Gwangan bridge, Gwangalli, and Dongbaek-Seom from my house if that gives you an idea. I make a trip to Seoul almost every week as a lot of my business is there, and I make it to other parts occasionally. The main area I make it to outside of Busan proper or Seoul is Ulsan, and that is because our nephew has a restaurant there that we like to visit.

I can't remember right now how much nuruk I used, but I posted it in the recipe I posted on a thread here.

I love it in Korea. I love the food - especially the seafood around Busan. I love the atmosphere. I love my wife's family ... I'm not sure I'll come back this time. It probably depends on whether I can continue to make the trip to see our daughters and their families often enough. I know my elder daughter and her husband would like to move to Korea themselves, but I don't think that's possible right now.

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Thanks for your reply Steve. What is it you do for work? I would love to return to Korea and work permanently one day - but I don't know what sort of jobs allow that for foreigners. I love Busan, it was my favorite city I visited and I went there many weekends.

The makgeolli turned out excellent for me. I tweaked the recipe a bit (used less nuruk to conserve it) and mixed a different ratio of water to suit my and my gf's taste. I have made it about 7-8 times now!

stever1000 said:

Thanks for your reply Steve. What is it you do for work? I would love to return to Korea and work permanently one day - but I don't know what sort of jobs allow that for foreigners. I love Busan, it was my favorite city I visited and I went there many weekends.

The makgeolli turned out excellent for me. I tweaked the recipe a bit (used less nuruk to conserve it) and mixed a different ratio of water to suit my and my gf's taste. I have made it about 7-8 times now!

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I sent you a PM with an answer to your question.

So, my four kids are adopted from South Korea and I was in Seoul twice and well.. I always loved makkoli and I've been homebrewing for 18 or so months (again) now...

I have about a 100 mile round trip to the nearest true Korean market, but they had Nuruk, I actually remembered to look for it.

I have a Christmas shutdown coming up...

Is the consensus of this thread still the N:R:W 1:5:10 ratio? How about champagne versus bread yeast? I'm leaning towards champagne but I could see doing a double spit batch. Oh why not..

I'm resurrecting a old thread I know.. but honestly, this and the recent Maangchi post are about the best resources out there.

Thanks. We often do a lot of homemade Korean food over the holidays because we all love the stuff and actually have the time to properly prepare it. This will be a nice touch for the two adults...(I'll likely make shikhye for the kids)

Dear UndeadFred

That ratio is a rule of thumb. Slight deviations should not matter too much. What is equally important are the rest of the process steps. Try to ferment cool around 65F if you can.

I definitely encourage the use of actual alcohol fermenting yeast. Champagne yeast is a suitable strain, as would be any manner of beer or wine yeast. I personally am very much against the use of bread yeast, but it is just my personal opinion that its just as much trouble to obtain bread yeast, and bread yeast is not really "designed" or, more accurately, bred to be an alcohol fermenting yeast. So, it doesn't produce alcohol 'very well', tends to give flavor faults, and doesn't produce all the obscure, pleasant tasting flavor compounds that properly isolated yeast strains to. There are so many good and superior strains of yeast out there. Why pick the worst one if you can avoid it? /rant

Good luck. RDWHAHB

I have pounds of bread yeast as I am into making natural fermented foods as well (I made another batch of Kimchi last night for next week).. However I do brew beer and I do agree with you. I have a pack of Red Star champagne.. So I will do that. As for Temps.. I think I will also be brewing a stout in my dorm fridge fermentation chamber. I will put the makkoli in at the same time. Thanks for the reply...

self promotion, but this is the best nuruk based rice wine. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=437006

honestly all other threads on korean rice wine are not good. use hyunmi and you will get overly sour rice wine. follow halmae's instructions and it wont last longer than a week. ive got some only lightly sour makgeolli about to be bottled after a month of fermenting right now.

i use fresh makgeolli starter from a local brewery every time i make it, not champagne yeast...

Interesting. I have to drive to a neighboring state to even get the white commercial stuff from Korea. So try to culture yeast from makkoli isn't going to happen. I have some W34/70 slurry I could try for lager yeast. I like your idea of the Nuruk a day sooner it makes sense. Like cooking everything else Korean in Iowa I will have to do the best I can. I might not get it 100% right but I will get it as close as I can. Thanks. Warming the Nuruk up in the beginning is interesting. It is kinda like what you do with kimchi at room temperature for the first 4 to 5 days..

I just had a tasting of it 4 days after bottling (to chrck if i had a potential bottle bomb) . This stuff is carbonated with s05 after having been pasteurized and is the best makkeoli ever. Small residual sweetness, very smooth mild sourness. Creamy texture (no head...).
This was actually just a lazy version of the peocess i have posted and it worked out great.
Warm for half a day then down to 52degreesF for 3 weeks. The souring bacteria seem to almost stop operating at that temp.
W34 sounds like a very good idea.
Were breaking new ground in rice wine right now.

OK my first batch is okay, better than store bought. However I can taste the Nuruk more than is to my liking. Can I substitute out a certain amount of LD Carlson LHBS Amalyze enzyme for the Nuruk? Certainly that flavor needs to be there but I would like to cut it back to about 1/3 of what is there. I would imagine that my makkoli is ghetto compared to yours, but it is a lot better than the stuff I used to smuggle in from Chicago from the Korean markets. Thanks for the advice.

Hello
I made my first batch of Makgeolly and it came out very well. My Korean wife and her sister gave me two gold stars. I now want to make a larger quantity and am not sure if I just double or tripple my first recipe?
Thank you

Rainer