Spa panel

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McCuckerson

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Anybody mount their damn spa panel right on their rig? Kinda like an in-line GFCI? I have a 240v outlet in my garage but its not GFI. I was thinking of putting the spa panel right on the rig with a dryer cord running to the non gfi outlet. No?

Or, could I mount the spa panel on the wall and put an outlet right in the spa panel box?
 
McCuckerson,
Save yourself the hassle and just install the appropriate GFCI breaker in the panel. I assume it is a 30amp circuit (4-wire) since it is a dryer? Then use a plug and whip over to the panel. Or, are you sharing the circuit with your dryer when not brewing?
 
A lot of people are using the 30 amp cord with a GFI built in. Really the same thing as doing the panel on the stand, gives you some flexibility to take it with you. I can brew with it in the basement or carry it up to the Laundry room if I needed to.
 
I mounted mine right on the rig. It gives me a way of killing power locally. I also don't plan on moving the rig anywhere so flexibility was not a concern.
 
Personally, I want the GFCI as far up stream as I can get it.
If a water line breaks and hoses down the panel (I know it "should" be water tight) your gfci protection would be flooded... right?

Ed
 
McCuckerson,
Save yourself the hassle and just install the appropriate GFCI breaker in the panel. I assume it is a 30amp circuit (4-wire) since it is a dryer? Then use a plug and whip over to the panel. Or, are you sharing the circuit with your dryer when not brewing?

Its a square D box, and it seems like those breakers are crazy expensive. List is like 3 bones, retail $128 and remanufactured is not much of a savings at all.

The 30amp circuit was put in the garage by my electrician friend/neighbor. We were talking one night over a few HBs about electric brewing, and I came home the next day to a new circuit in my garage. Only problem is its not GFI:confused:

I just figured if I needed a disconnect at the rig anyway, and the spa panels can be had pretty cheap, they would serve that purpose as well as protect the work envelope of the rig.

GFI cord is an option too, but same problem of not protecting as far upstream as possible. Darnit, why does safety have to cost so much!
 
Personally, I want the GFCI as far up stream as I can get it.
If a water line breaks and hoses down the panel (I know it "should" be water tight) your gfci protection would be flooded... right?

Ed
So if i'm hearing you correctly, you are advocating brewing wearing lineman's gloves?:D

Seriously, you make an excellent point. GFI breaker at the box is the safest option.
 
So if i'm hearing you correctly, you are advocating brewing wearing lineman's gloves?:D

Seriously, you make an excellent point. GFI breaker at the box is the safest option.

Yup... safety first :D

I had a SPA panel and started looking at the cost of a breaker in the main, cord & terminators from the breaker panel to the SPA box, cord & terminators from the SPA Box to my control panel and then ran into a deal in a GFCI Breaker, so that's how I went.

If you want to add distance between your rig and the GFCI, you could hang the SPA panel on the wall in your garage and use SO cord in and out of it.

Ed
 
If you want to add distance between your rig and the GFCI, you could hang the SPA panel on the wall in your garage and use SO cord in and out of it.

Ed
Do you think I could mount the outlet right in the spa panel? That would be pretty cool.
 
Do you think I could mount the outlet right in the spa panel? That would be pretty cool.

That's what I am suggesting to a guy in Chapel Hill. He got a spa panel for $50 and the plan is to put an outlet right in the thing so that the brewery panel can plug into it.

Spa panel will be on a short cord and placed next to his non-GFI outlet. Brewery panel is on a long cord that plugs into the GFI box.
 
two comments:

(1) I didn't even price shop for that. Just searched for "square D gfi breaker" and that was one of the top links. might find one cheaper.

(2) make sure it's the right kind! square D makes two different styles of breakers. you need the one that matches exactly with your panel.
 
Hey, Walker, that is a smokin' great deal on the breaker. I just picked up my Murray 60amp GFCI breaker for $86 at my supply house (CED). It is going to power my Ohio-ED 60 amp relay!

Folks, don't cut corners by not installing a GFCI. Hell, it is cheap price for safety and you never know if that panel could become wet (ie - your drunk neighbor peeing on the panel, rainstorms, out-of-control hose spraying everywhere, etc.).
 
What kind of outlet would I use with a 50amp circuit?

Forget 50 amps, go 60 amps so you can run pumps and (2) 5,500W elements at the same time. Oh ya, here is an example of standard outlet. They also come in twist lock.
8522.jpg
 
50A plugs and receptacles are standard for electric ranges. You can walk into any hardware store and buy them.

60A stuff would allow you to do everything Sparky said, but the 60A aren't as commonplace, so you would likely have to order online.

PS; I thought you were happy with your 2000W/120V system? Is it not fast enough with heating for you? :D
 
50A plugs and receptacles are standard for electric ranges. You can walk into any hardware store and buy them.

60A stuff would allow you to do everything Sparky said, but the 60A aren't as commonplace, so you would likely have to order online.

PS; I thought you were happy with your 2000W/120V system? Is it not fast enough with heating for you? :D

I started down the 60amp path and realized exactly what Walker says here. Not only are they harder to locate, the prices go up pretty drastically. I know Walker got a great deal on cord, but when I priced Cord, Plugs & Receptacles, the difference was significant.

Ed
 
I'm putting together pieces for a build now also. I bought the $50 spa pannel from Home Depot (including a GE 30A GFCI breaker) with a plan to use that for GFI protection. Once I priced out buying wire, plugs, etc; it was cheeper to just buy the 30A GFCI cord available on Ebay. Spa pannel was returned.

$50 GFCI pannel
$40 20 Ft 10/3 wire suitable for a power cord (@ $2 a foot)
$20 Dryer cord + Plug

$110 vice $77 for power cord

This leads to a much more portable rig as well.
 
I'm putting together pieces for a build now also. I bought the $50 spa pannel from Home Depot (including a GE 30A GFCI breaker) with a plan to use that for GFI protection. Once I priced out buying wire, plugs, etc; it was cheeper to just buy the 30A GFCI cord available on Ebay. Spa pannel was returned.

$50 GFCI pannel
$40 20 Ft 10/3 wire suitable for a power cord (@ $2 a foot)
$20 Dryer cord + Plug

$110 vice $77 for power cord

This leads to a much more portable rig as well.

If 30 amps is all you need, the cord seems to be a great option.
 
Officially, our voltage is "240V", but depending on various factors, you can end up deviating from that.

I actually measure 248V at my house.

And it's not the voltage that makes the difference in how many elements you can run. It's the amps available.
 
And it's not the voltage that makes the difference in how many elements you can run. It's the amps available.

Right I understand, but 11000/240=45.8A (suitable for two 5500W elements and a pump or two IMO) where 11000/220=50A (not suitable really for even two 5500W Elements.)
 
You fell into a common mistake.

A 5500W/240V element is only 5500W if you run it at 240V. If you run it on less voltage, it produces less power and draws less current.

If you run it on higher voltage, it produces more power and draws more current.

There is a squaring factor involved, too, so small voltage differences result in huge power differences.

A 5500W/240V element is just a 10.4 Ohm resistor. That resistance is constant. The voltage can vary, so the power will vary.

V=I*R, so I=V/R, so I=220/10.4 = 21.2

That element will only draw 21.2A if run on 220V instead of 240V.

And it will produce only 4600W instead of 5500W.

If you ran that element on 120V, it would only be 1375W (and draw half the current compared to 240V).
 
In the past year of running my 3 keg EHERMS system I rarely run both 5500w elements at the same time. Unless you plan on running both elements together for long periods of time do you really need the 60A over 50A?
 
I started down the 60amp path and realized exactly what Walker says here. Not only are they harder to locate, the prices go up pretty drastically.
Ed

True, and I should not be so cheeeky about going 60amp - especially since we are in the electrical business so there is the advantage of wholesale, freebies, and write-offs.
 
In the past year of running my 3 keg EHERMS system I rarely run both 5500w elements at the same time. Unless you plan on running both elements together for long periods of time do you really need the 60A over 50A?

5,500W/240 = ~23amps
Two elements = ~46amps
but...
it is considered a continuous load, so
120% 23amps = 27.6amps
Two elements = ~55amps
Then, add in a couple amps for the pumps, lights, and other gizmos and you are approx. 58amps.
Size up to the appropriate breaker, and you get 60amps.

You may be okay with the system at 50amps, but better at 60amps.
More important, is your wire size 6 gage and what distance to the panel?
 
But did you find a 60amp plug or receptacle to go with it?

I'm guessing you didn't (at least not at the Home Depot or Lowes in my area).

If you want to hard wire your panel, you'd be OK, otherwise the pieces are going to get pricey, quick.

Ed

No, but to be fair, I didn't look.;)
 

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