My Automated E-Herms Build (LabJack)

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cruelkix

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
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Location
Aurora, CO
So after about 2 months of work I am finally at the point where I feel comfortable showing off my rig! I also have a few videos of my first brew session. I have a long way to go in the programming department to get the automation set up and I am really lazy when it comes to writing code. I stopped after I got it into the BK as everyone on here I think knows what to do after that, and if not there is already tons of info for it.

Any feedback is welcome. Let me know what you think! This was my first time brewing AG as well so please let me know if my technique is screwed up.

PICS!
The Rig.
DSCN5326.jpg

7" Touchscreen Mounted on Computer case on wall
DSCN5291.jpg

Boil Kettle
DSCN5289.jpg

Mash Tun
DSCN5288.jpg

HTL/HERMS Hex
DSCN5287.jpg
 
And then I got a stuck mash when I ramped up to 154 F and stopped taking video. I Think I mixed my grain too much and pushed some through the false bottom. I got it fixed and ended up with a good gravity for me beer. I got 1.070 and I was shooting for 1.073. Considering the stuck mash and not knowing the efficiency of my set up I would say that's pretty good.:mug:

Try not to rip on my video taking skills too hard. I'm a little shaky and all over the place, haha.

-Craig
 
Very cool man! You say that you got a stuck mash, likely because of messing with the grain bed. Is it even necessary to stir or mess with it once the pump is recirculating? With the way you've got it set-up, I would think that taking the cooler water from the bottom, heating it, then pumping it to the top would even-out any temperature differential in short order.
 
Looks pretty awesome. I would love to see more of what you did on the controls side and how you setup LabJack.

Joshua

I'll try to find some pics of inside of the electrical boxes. They aren't very pretty. I'm not electrician. I probably didn't do everything the way it should be done either.
 
Very cool man! You say that you got a stuck mash, likely because of messing with the grain bed. Is it even necessary to stir or mess with it once the pump is recirculating? With the way you've got it set-up, I would think that taking the cooler water from the bottom, heating it, then pumping it to the top would even-out any temperature differential in short order.

That's a good question. Like I said, this is my first time brewing AG so I'm not really all that sure of what the stirring accomplishes. I was thinking that I would get some better hydrating if I stirred it every now and again. I guess I was a little worried about maintaining heat as I really don't have any sort of sparge arm yet. Any one have any good info on this one?
 
I'll try to find some pics of inside of the electrical boxes. They aren't very pretty. I'm not electrician. I probably didn't do everything the way it should be done either.

When you do post pictures, be prepared for the code nazis to be all over you. Don't take it personally. Some of them will have sound advice coming from a well-intentioned place. Others are just trying to make themselves feel better by berating your sloppy job thereby lifting themselves up. Have fun guessing which one is which and sift through the comments for constructive criticism.
 
More info on the computer thats controlling this thing please!!! :ban:

The comp is pretty standard. I'm using a via embedded Mobo 13000SP with an 80GB harddrive running windows XP. I had used it previously as a car computer, but have since ripped it out. I wrote the program in Visual Basic 2008, using the API provided by Labjack. The Labjack is the http://labjack.com/u3. I got the HV version. Its a pretty slick piece of harware that plugs directly into the USB and was actually pretty easy to write code for. (with honestly only a little help from my brother to get me started, he is a programmer by trade, I'm a Mechanical engineer = not good with code or making things pretty.) I go thte idea from someone on this forum who had already done it. I can't remember the user name but its the guy that runs his "Deep Six Brewery" and has done another touchscreen automation project in the DIY forum.

The only flaw is the speakers on top of the computer, it makes it hard to lift the hinged panel. I need to wall mount them somehow.

As always there is more work to be done. (like finsihing up my drywall work from where I ran the water into the garage, which by the way was the best decision I made throughout this project. Its awesome having hot and cold water on demand right next to your brew rig.)

Let me know if you have any other questions about the comp!
 
When you do post pictures, be prepared for the code nazis to be all over you. Don't take it personally. Some of them will have sound advice coming from a well-intentioned place. Others are just trying to make themselves feel better by berating your sloppy job thereby lifting themselves up. Have fun guessing which one is which and sift through the comments for constructive criticism.

Yeah, I did a ton of reading on this forum prior to my project obviously and I saw a lot of info on how to wire and all the comments aobut how people did it wrong. Thats why i threw in the "I'm sure I didn't do this right" thing. I have no fuses and the only thing I am using for system protection is the 50 amp breaker in the box. Also, im using my electrical boxes as heat sinks for the SSRs. That works in the winter but I'm not sure how the summer is going to like it. My brother in law has one of the window fans that has two small fans in it that he doesnt want. I'm going to tear that up and mount it on the diamond plate to get some airflow under the rig.
 
The vast majority of members here will comment only because they see a potential hazard and they don't want to see you get hurt. There are very few who like to chest pound. Lets face it, we do encounter a few hazards while brewing like mega-btu propane burners, high power electric elements, just to name a few. If you get a critique it is simply because they want to see you enjoy your hobby safely.
 
The vast majority of members here will comment only because they see a potential hazard and they don't want to see you get hurt. There are very few who like to chest pound. Lets face it, we do encounter a few hazards while brewing like mega-btu propane burners, high power electric elements, just to name a few. If you get a critique it is simply because they want to see you enjoy your hobby safely.

I totally agree and appreciate that. I would much rather know the right way to do something. If I choose not to do it that way, then at least I know the risks I am taking by bypassing that information.

I will say the first time i threw the breaker to put power to the heating elements I was definitely a little freaked out. One of those close your eyes, say a little diddy to the big man in the sky, take a breath and do it, type deals.

I'm still impressed by the amount of noise the heating elements make at full load. I had a problem where my SSR was tripping due to a wiring mistake, and a friend was over. I hit the button to turn it on and nothing happened and he was like " is it on?". No way man, when those things are on, you know it!
 
When you do post pictures, be prepared for the code nazis to be all over you. Don't take it personally. Some of them will have sound advice coming from a well-intentioned place. Others are just trying to make themselves feel better by berating your sloppy job thereby lifting themselves up. Have fun guessing which one is which and sift through the comments for constructive criticism.

Not just any Nazis.... Code Enforcement Gestapo! Lol, I just realized how my handle fits into that. It actually refers to my occasional excitability when programming :D

I wrote the primer for brewers so some people can find the information they are looking for with out fear of asking a 'dumb question' or to be stuck in some kind of debate. I am also very conscientious, if I saw something dangerous, some one got hurt, and I didn't say anything it would eat on my conscious for a long time.

OP, It looks very nice bud. I look forward to seeing some more pics.
 
Not just any Nazis.... Code Enforcement Gestapo! Lol, I just realized how my handle fits into that. It actually refers to my occasional excitability when programming :D

I wrote the primer for brewers so some people can find the information they are looking for with out fear of asking a 'dumb question' or to be stuck in some kind of debate. I am also very conscientious, if I saw something dangerous, some one got hurt, and I didn't say anything it would eat on my conscious for a long time.

OP, It looks very nice bud. I look forward to seeing some more pics.

I took some pics at lunch time. I'll get them posted tonight. My company blocks photobucket .......

Anyway after tonight you can see how poorly I wired things up and let me know about it! But honestly if you do see something you consider a serious hazard please let me know!

Thanks,
Craig
 
Ok so here are a few pics of the wiring:

2 x 40Amp SSRs, Distro-block, 30amp plugs, and Labjack:
DSCN5339.jpg


Back of that panel:
DSCN5337.jpg


4 x 10 amp outlets, 4 x 15 amp SSRs, 1 distro-block:
DSCN5334.jpg


I used the front cover to mount it to my frame:
DSCN5335.jpg

DSCN5333.jpg



And of course, I was a very happy camper when I walking into my basement and saw my first AG batch looking like this:
DSCN5329.jpg


The only thing that makes me happier is when I see it come out of this:
DSCN5330.jpg


Close up of my DIY tape handles (they are magnetic and chalkboard painted)
DSCN5331.jpg


Bring on the wiring questions!
 
I was under the impression that the Digital I/O lines could only supply 3.3V and you are switching a 4-32V SSR without amplification. Am I missing something, or does it just work anyway?

Also, it looks great. Nice job.
 
I was under the impression that the Digital I/O lines could only supply 3.3V and you are switching a 4-32V SSR without amplification. Am I missing something, or does it just work anyway?

Also, it looks great. Nice job.

I'm pretty sure that's teh difference between the high voltage and the low voltage. So the U3-HV vs. U3-LV.

And then you actually dont supply a voltage in the code. Its either on or off. Like this:

LabJackUD.LJUD.OpenLabJack(LabJackUD.LJUD.DEVICE.U3, LabJackUD.LJUD.CONNECTION.USB, "1", True, handle)

The "1" setting to on or off. If its "0" its off (or on, cant remember)

I think I read on the forum there are some other tricks to get the voltage up without amplifying as well. As a point of reference the guys at Labjack are awesome. I actually live near them so I drove over there to meet them. Amazing support. They actually have programmers on staff just for support purposes. In like every language too. A few of them really wanted me to do it in python. Really really helpful people. I had no idea that they were located in colorado until after I ordered it I got it in like 1 day. I figured they had to be close so I looked it up!

Anyway, it just worked!
 
You're right, not going to win any beauty points :)

The only major error I see is it doesn't look like the enclosures are grounded. Should one of your 120 legs comes lose and touch the panel you want it to pop the breaker and not float voltage. Cause when you touch it, you are the new ground.

I would like to see you make a few changes though. In the second panel I see you are daisy chaining the grounds and neutrals from device to device. Yeah, I know this is how it is done in residential but if one connection comes loose you can loose your ground and neutral for anything down stream of it. So use terminal blocks or a distribution block like you did for the 120. This way you will only loose one device and it will be easier to troubleshoot.

The red wire you used for the neutral really needs to be changed to white. A year or so down the road you don't want to accidentally get one confused for the other.

Over all, looks good man.
 
You're right, not going to win any beauty points :)

The only major error I see is it doesn't look like the enclosures are grounded. Should one of your 120 legs comes lose and touch the panel you want it to pop the breaker and not float voltage. Cause when you touch it, you are the new ground.

That is something I totally didnt think about. I will def do that in the near future. Thank you!

I would like to see you make a few changes though. In the second panel I see you are daisy chaining the grounds and neutrals from device to device. Yeah, I know this is how it is done in residential but if one connection comes loose you can loose your ground and neutral for anything down stream of it. So use terminal blocks or a distribution block like you did for the 120. This way you will only loose one device and it will be easier to troubleshoot.

I was a little hesitant when I did this in the first place. I felt there was probably a better way to do it. I dont have a lot of room in these cases. Despite what it may look like, they are pretty tight, but I think that it is a good idea.

The red wire you used for the neutral really needs to be changed to white. A year or so down the road you don't want to accidentally get one confused for the other.

Over all, looks good man.

I don't mess with electrical that often, so I dont think I will get them confused, but you are probably right in this case as well. It may not be the first priority of the things you listed, but I'll prob get around to it.
 
i think coderage covered the grounding but i have a slightly different question, or he answered it and i just don't get it. when wiring the heating elemen plugs and the heating elements. i noticed you have a black, red and nuetral white going to the plugs, i thought the elements ony have the 2 hot legs, did you "ground" the netral white to the keg?
awsome rig, i am envious
 
i think coderage covered the grounding but i have a slightly different question, or he answered it and i just don't get it. when wiring the heating elemen plugs and the heating elements. i noticed you have a black, red and nuetral white going to the plugs, i thought the elements ony have the 2 hot legs, did you "ground" the netral white to the keg?
awsome rig, i am envious

Well, lets say it this way. The black in my box is the ground. So the red and the white are the hot legs. but yes, when I brought it to the keg, I "grounded" the dryer cord to the keg.

Does that answer your question?
 
I've had a few homebrews and im good and ready for a:

[RANT]So all the problems with March pumps and Priming .... I had them and they sucked! I will be putting a Tee at the output with another ball valve for priming in short order! Also, the more I look at my pictures I realize how half assed alot of the stuffed I did was .... I really need to clean things up. My diamond plate is not sealed, my walls look like crap, and I dont thinK I have truly finished a single aspect of this thing ............[/RANT]

That felt good. Refill!:rockin::tank::mug:
 
Woah, you need to make sure that you are running ground to those kegs and not neutral.

This is going to sound real nit picky but it is important. If any one ever goes to service this thing or give you a hand and they know what they are doing, Black and Red are the 2 legs of voltage, white is always neutral. Some one could put a screw driver to it assuming it is the right color code and get very hurt.
 
Woah, you need to make sure that you are running ground to those kegs and not neutral.

This is going to sound real nit picky but it is important. If any one ever goes to service this thing or give you a hand and they know what they are doing, Black and Red are the 2 legs of voltage, white is always neutral. Some one could put a screw driver to it assuming it is the right color code and get very hurt.

I'm an idiot. It is ground. Sorry. But still, I am currently running the white as a hot leg. Should I switch the white to ground? OR should I get some green wire and make that ground? I forgot that the neutral wire is in the wall doing nothing.

Actual how bout this, for 240 volt. Does the wireing color scheme go like this?

Red: Hot
Black: Hot
White: Neutral
Green: Ground

And for 120 does it go:

White: Hot
Black: Hot
Green: Ground

Thanks....

Edit: I fixed my previous post, but not my wiring yet
 
almost, try this instead.
Red: Hot
Black: Hot
White: Neutral
Green: Ground

And for 120 does it go:

White: Nuetral
Black: Hot
Green: Ground

the 240 has 2 hot legs, the 120, only 1 hot leg.
 
Since most of the replies have been about your electrical, I'll chime in about your mash. First thing I noticed is the length of the tubing going to your false bottom. That has to get in the way of good stirring. Ideally you would have a short and straight connection to the false bottom. Stirring: You want to do this when you are doughing in, and do it well to make sure there are no doughballs. Since you are recirculating with a HERMS, you should only need to stir this once then leave the grain bed alone during recirculation. If you are batch sparging you would re-stir after adding sparge water. (not for fly sparging, but you only have one pump, so I assume you are doing batch unless you drain into a separate vessel)
Also you don't need a fancy manifold for recirc, just lay the hose in the water level and let it swirl a bit.
As far as your priming problems go, make sure the feed (input) has no restriction, and you may want to try rotating your pump head 90˚ to put the input on the bottom.
One other note, that clear tubing you have 1 section of, I'd be worried about using that for recirculation. It's one thing to use it for a single transfer, like from the cooled BK to the fermenters, and another to have 150+˚ temps circulating for an hour, it may give bandaid flavors.
All that said I am very jealous of your electric rig. I'm slowly working my way that direction from propane. Nice work, nice touchscreen, thanks for the videos.


That's a good question. Like I said, this is my first time brewing AG so I'm not really all that sure of what the stirring accomplishes. I was thinking that I would get some better hydrating if I stirred it every now and again. I guess I was a little worried about maintaining heat as I really don't have any sort of sparge arm yet. Any one have any good info on this one?
 
cruelkix, neutral isn't exactly a hot leg and is kind of related to ground. It's explained in the electrical primer on the first post if you want to read it. Good luck and thanks for being a good sport about the constructive criticism. ;)
 
I don't know what your experience with USB is and if you've ran this yet, but from my experience at work, god help you with those power lines running that close to the USB wires. You have an almost perpendicular crossing and that may help, but from my experience on a daily basis with the USB communication in our industrial equipment (Genius design:rolleyes:) you have headaches ahead. Hopefully this is not the case, but just remember this if/when you USB interface starts going whacko.
 
Perpendicular intersections are okay, when you run signal wires parallel with high current carrying wire is when you start to induce noise. Best practice is to keep them far away. Which reminds me, I meant to tell you that you did do right by running your control signal wires separate from your power carrying wires for the same reason.
 
Which reminds me, I meant to tell you that you did do right by running your control signal wires separate from your power carrying wires for the same reason.

It's better to be lucky than good right? That was just pure luck. I'll try to rememebr the USB/Power thing if I do run in to issues but so far it has been working great! Thanks for the info all!

1 question. On the 120 side of things: For most plugs (like the one I am using on my 120 panel), are the hot leg and the nuetral leg interchangable? If I throw my voltmeter from the hot to ground I get 120. If I throw from Neutral to ground what should I get?

Amazing it all works considering I don't seem to know anything, haha.

Thanks,
Craig
 
Since most of the replies have been about your electrical, I'll chime in about your mash. First thing I noticed is the length of the tubing going to your false bottom. That has to get in the way of good stirring. Ideally you would have a short and straight connection to the false bottom. Stirring: You want to do this when you are doughing in, and do it well to make sure there are no doughballs. Since you are recirculating with a HERMS, you should only need to stir this once then leave the grain bed alone during recirculation. If you are batch sparging you would re-stir after adding sparge water. (not for fly sparging, but you only have one pump, so I assume you are doing batch unless you drain into a separate vessel)
Also you don't need a fancy manifold for recirc, just lay the hose in the water level and let it swirl a bit.
As far as your priming problems go, make sure the feed (input) has no restriction, and you may want to try rotating your pump head 90˚ to put the input on the bottom.
One other note, that clear tubing you have 1 section of, I'd be worried about using that for recirculation. It's one thing to use it for a single transfer, like from the cooled BK to the fermenters, and another to have 150+˚ temps circulating for an hour, it may give bandaid flavors.
All that said I am very jealous of your electric rig. I'm slowly working my way that direction from propane. Nice work, nice touchscreen, thanks for the videos.

Thanks for the tips! I had planned on switching my pump to teh vertical orientation just like you said. Also, I will be replacing that hose today. I agree, and thought it wasnt the greatest idea, but I had bought the last 10 feet of silicone hose from the LHBS. They should have more in stock now. The reason the hose looks so long in teh mash tun is because if I made it shorter it would kink. Its not reinforced and it def causes problems while mixing. I will be hard piping it at some point, I just havent gotten there yet. HD doesnt seem to sell 1 ft of 1/2" easily bendable copper tubing.
 
Yes, the Neutral and 110 locations are important.

The neutral goes to the wide blade (looking at the socket from the front, it is on the left) and the 110 goes to the small blade on the right.
 
Just wanted to say this is extremely cool, and congrats on your pimp system. I don’t know much about electrical, but listen to CodeRage, your system is far too cool for you to get hurt using it.
 
Yes, the Neutral and 110 locations are important.

The neutral goes to the wide blade (looking at the socket from the front, it is on the left) and the 110 goes to the small blade on the right.

Thanks. If I had them wrong would the pump be running backwards?
 
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