Rhizomes are in!

Oh. Well, thanks for the info. I'll probably wait until next year when I get settled into a more long term place before I try growing hops. The idea of moving them halfway across the country doesn't sound like a great idea.

I'm looking forward to growing my own hops. Its gonna be a few years, but it'll make the homebrew even more...um...homey, or something.

First we get the rhizomes, then we get the hops, then we get the women

I plan to plant mine next spring. Of course, I won't get any cones from them until harvest time in 2008.... but whatever. I'm patient.

-walker

anyone harvested a 2nd year crop? how'd you dry em? this will be my second season and i am hoping for a nice yield of cascade. Last year I used the oven to dry them. didnt really matter because they werent pungent enough to do anything with, this year will be different. anybody have any tried and true drying methods? I was thinking about a dehydrator. If nothing else I can make some jerky to go with my pale ale

I have a question:
how do you know the AAU in your homegrown hops? I see that the environment (place to place and year to year) has some influence on this.
is there any way to test it in a sample?

Also, is there a lot of differences in flavor/aroma profile?
thanks in advance!

I think you need a relatively sophisticated laboratory set-up to get an accurate number, but I might be mistaken.

I plan to start growing my own hops next spring, and I was thinking that (in the meantime) I could make up 6oz glasses of hop-tea with a set amount of various hops that I do know the AA for and try to train myself to get a reasonable ballpark estimation from my tastebuds.

Probably a waste of time, but might be fun to try it (or at least educational as I could learn more 1st-hand about the flavor of various hop types, even if I can't train myself to guesstimate AA.)

edit: hmmmm.... what about using simple PH strips to check this? if you use neutral water and 1 gm of hops and make tea, maybe the PH strips could measure how acidic the tea is after you boil it for an hour or whatever? Use some know hops to make a scale and then test your homegrown hops against that scale?

edit #2: it's kind of pricey (~$70), but here's a digital PH meter:

page: http://www.northernbrewer.com/analytical.html



-walker

I've been digging around to try and figure out if there is a good way to test this at home, but I haven't had much luck.

One method I saw used a known hop and your unknown homegrown hop and make tea. Then measure how much sugar (in 1/2 teaspoon increments) it takes to cut the bitter bite off the hops in both teas.

If it takes X teaspoons to counter-act the acid in the known hop, and Y teaspoons to counter-act the acid in the unknown hop, then the unkown AA is roughly:

Y/X * AA_of_the_known_hop

This same reference also says that homegrown hops are generally 50% stronger than the same type of hop purchased commercially due to the freshness.

Finally, this same refereces gives this fallback:

I've not seen anyone mention trying to use PH readings to do this, so either I'm the first to think of it (not likely) or it simply doesn't work.

-walker

oh, and here's the page I got this stuff from: http://pw2.netcom.com/~dluzanp/backyard.htm

Rhisomes are very small and you won't get any hops the first year (I got three pea-sized flowers on one of four plants) However, the rhisome will become a root, which you can dig up and transplant. My plants topped out at 6 feet last year, but they are already coming up. I really need to get the stand built and buy some cord.

anybody dried hops before?

Genghis77 said:

Might want to try a garden type, dial Ph meter. Should run about $15 at WallyWorld.
​

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Not familiar with them, but how fine grained of a reading can you get from them? I'd be worried abotu that.

hell, what am I saying... I don't know if you would need fine grain readings or not. I don't even know if the idea works!

-walker

I don't know...

if it were as simple as measuring PH a method would've been developed already.

the alpha acids in hops are made up of 4-5 different compounds, each one with its own acidity, so don't think that the correlation of total AA with Ph would be so good.

Maybe using teas as a comparison or better yet, using mini-wort-boils is the way to go....

that or send a sample for analysis to a lab...


EDIT:
now that I think more of this: here is a protocol to know if the idea is good:


1) select a variety of hops (leftovers is ok provided they are in good condition)
2) make hop teas with the same AAU of each hop (calculate the quantity of each)
3) from one high AAU variety (nugget) make a calibration curve (series of dilutions)
measure PH of everithng.

if the idea works you should get a nice straight line for the calibration curve an all points from 2) clumped together.
if the points from 2) differ in pH the method doesn't work. if the curve for a single hop variety is not a straight line, it is not good either.

can help with experimental design if needed

m_f said:

I have a question:
how do you know the AAU in your homegrown hops? I see that the environment (place to place and year to year) has some influence on this.
is there any way to test it in a sample?

Also, is there a lot of differences in flavor/aroma profile?
thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Here is that link I mentioned a few days ago. Pricey, but if you really want to know the AA%...

Good hop growing info

If this method seems too imprecise for you, send a one-ounce sample of hops to Jim Murphey at Murphey Analytical Laboratories Inc., (509) 577-8969. He will do an alpha-acid and beta-acid spectrographic analysis for about $28 and a hop oil profile analysis for $80. He also will perform an IBU analysis of your beer for $25. (Send two bottles - one for testing and one for qualitative analysis while doing the write-up - to 7 W. Mead Ave., Yakima, WA 98902.)

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yeah, that's the page I was looking at earlier, too. The problem is (or will be, when I get my hop garden rolling) is that 1oz sample of dry hops is equal to a 5 oz sample of freshly picked (wet) hops. I don't know if I'll have THAT big of a hop garden that I can give up that much of each type I have (or am I off and you actually get a LOT of hops from a small garden.

I was planning on having maybe 4 types of hops (one high AA, three low AA). maybe 2 vines of the bittering hops and maybe 3 vines of each of the aroma/flavor hops... 12 total vines, max.

Any ideas how much that would yield, annually?

-walker

Walker said:

yeah, that's the page I was looking at earlier, too. The problem is (or will be, when I get my hop garden rolling) is that 1oz sample of dry hops is equal to a 5 oz sample of freshly picked (wet) hops. I don't know if I'll have THAT big of a hop garden that I can give up that much of each type I have (or am I off and you actually get a LOT of hops from a small garden.

I was planning on having maybe 4 types of hops (one high AA, three low AA). maybe 2 vines of the bittering hops and maybe 3 vines of each of the aroma/flavor hops... 12 total vines, max.

Any ideas how much that would yield, annually?

-walker

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aroma/flavor: no problem, no need to measure or compare, from what the link says....
although I'd have my concerns...after all is the flavor the same for EKG and BCG? aren't they the same genotype grown in different place?

bittering: if you'll be measuring that, and need more flowers for the determination, plant more vines for that cultivar...

this is a very interesting thread... thanks!

How is everyone ordering? The website still says to come back April '06!!!!

Nevermind - they're taking some orders from the phone. I just ordered some! 2 each of Cascade, Perle, and Nugget!

ordered mine:
Cascade (upgraded to root)
Magnum
Hood
Sterling
Willamette
Pearle

I tend to order a lot online after a few brews, but I took advantage of their bulk discounts (fresh hops). Once the frost clears, I'm digging a hole, dropping them in and filling it with steer poop.

Got mine yesterday! They're already in the ground! I can't wait.

EDIT - After 6 days in the ground I had Cascade popping up and by 8 days the other Cascade had popped through along with one of the Perles. Now 2 weeks in I've got at least 4 bines each on both Cascade and Perle, but nothing from the Nugget. I'm pretty pleased and encouraged. All this in amended upstate SC red clay.

Got my hop rhizomes in Thrusday but we're having another cold spell so I have to wait a few weeks more. Their sprouting in the bag. Maybe the end of the month. I got 2 of each Brewers Gold, Kent Goldings, Hallertauer, Cascade and Liberty.

There's a little paperback called Homegrown Hops that's pretty good and several good hops sites:

http://www.freshops.com/
http://***********/feature/116.html
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/montell.html
http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/html/rhizomes.html
http://www.breworganic.com/tips/growing-hops.htm

I have heard that you have to be careful or they'll take over everything like mint or bittersweet but this doesn't seem to be written anywhere (but then wemight not buy them huh?). Anyone have this problem and if so what did you do to control them?

Try soaking your rhizomes in a bucket of water over night before you plant them. Don't let the roots dry out before you plant. Root stocks need to be kept moist if they dry out they will probably die. If you get them early add a tiny bit of water to a ziplock bag and keep them in a cool place like the fridge or a basement until you plant. Once you plant keep the ground moist but not soggy/wet so the little beasties can grow. If their to wet they will rot.

Kephren said:

I planted mine a month ago and got nothing. Maybe some bad rizomes, but I doubt it. I'll try again next year by starting them in a pot inside.

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Dude -

Those rhizomes look really dry! dip them in some water and seal the bags until the night before you plant them, then soak them in a bucket of water over night. They'll take better.

Good Luck!

Dude said:

Got my hops rhizomes yesterday, going to plant today.
Can't wait!
I don't expect much yield in the first year but it will still be cool to say I grew the hops that went in my beer. If these work out I'm going to do more varieties in the future. Especially once I buy my own house.

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Brewman -

You should've waited until after the last frost. It's still to cold to plant. We wait until end of April early May here in CT, I don't expect it's much different in NY. Did you plant them in the snow?

Brewman said:

hmmm I have been wondering....... I am here on Long Island NY and mine have not surfaced at all yet......

is this normal, its been about 2 months now........ but it has not really warmed up much!

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Planted mine last week in large pots. 3 each of cascade and nugget. You do plant them vertically correct? I used a manure and dark soil mixture w/ some time release plant food.

DeejayDebi said:

Dude -

Those rhizomes look really dry! dip them in some water and seal the bags until the night before you plant them, then soak them in a bucket of water over night. They'll take better.

Good Luck!

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Might wanna read through the whole thread.....those were planted last year and did fine.

AHammer16 said:

Planted mine last week in large pots. 3 each of cascade and nugget. You do plant them vertically correct? I used a manure and dark soil mixture w/ some time release plant food.

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It doesn't matter which way they are planted (vertically or horizontally) as long as the shoots are pointing upward. Really, either way, nature will take its course and they will grow fine.

To those who have planted Nugget: Do they take longer to sprout than others?
I planted 2 each of Cascade, Perle, and Nugget all at the same time, all from Freshops, all in the same soil and the Cascades & Perles are rockin' but the Nugget shows no signs of life. I've even dug them up to see if any buds were formed.

Anyone have this kind of result? Or should they (assuming the are/were viable) be sprouting like the others?

The Nugget that Boston gave me are doing well (although they're all I have). About 2-3" tall now.

Baron von BeeGee said:

The Nugget that Boston gave me are doing well (although they're all I have). About 2-3" tall now.

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That's what I was afraid of. My others all have several bines on them, the tallest being several inches tall with a couple courses of leaves.

<shrug>Maybe I'll order some more</shrug>

ian said:

That's what I was afraid of. My others all have several bines on them, the tallest being several inches tall with a couple courses of leaves.

<shrug>Maybe I'll order some more</shrug>

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Ordered the same rhizomes as you; cascade and nugget. My nugget took almost 10 days longer before it popped out of the dirt. I actually emailed hopsdirect Sat just for the heck of it if they think they're toast and to see if they had more. Next day, I see growth...

i just put mine in the ground this weekend

cascade and chinook

I ordered one of each from hopsdirect and they sent me two of each

I'll try to post some pics once they start emerging

my mother in law bought me some homebrew supplies for christmas. dme, extract, hops, etc. all good and usefull stuff.

she also got me a package of 50 hop seeds. i thought this was great until i read all of the posts here about rhyzomes.

all the label says is they are 'homulus hop seeds'. and that i need to plant them in quality starting soil, wait 2 weeks, put them in the refrigerator for six weeks, let them germinate out of the fridge for a few weeks, and then plant them outside.

i own my house, so i don't mind if they take a few years to mature. but has anybody had experience with growing hops from seeds? any advice? how long until i can harvest hops for my homebrew?

barrett