Irish Stout Guinness Draught Clone

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RICLARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
2,532
Reaction score
14
Location
Grand Ledge, Mich
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Nottingham
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.5
Original Gravity
1.053
Final Gravity
1.013
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
43
Color
24.7
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
10 Days at 65
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
10 Days at 65
Additional Fermentation
no
Tasting Notes
I have been working at making a clone, This is pretty much spot on.
Guiness Draught Clone 68% Eff.

8.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 66.67 %
3.00 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 25.00 %
1.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20 %] (60 min) Hops 43.0 IBU
2 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale

Mash: 3.75 Gal 170.5 Degrees for 45 Min
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 1
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 2

Cool to 65 Pitch Nottingham let ferment 10 days at 65, Rack to Secondary for 14 days at 65.

Brewers note: To get the sourness of guiness. 1 Week before brewing put 24oz of Guiness in a bowl and sit it on the counter for 4 days to get sour. Freeze until brew day, On brew day remove and thaw. When there is about 30 mins left in your brew put the sour guiness on the stove and boil it for 10 mins then add it to flameout on your brew.

Brewers note two: Remember when brewing this beer that you will not get the creaminess of Guiness unless you have Nitrogen Injection. However the Taste is spot on. Enjoy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've got a similar recipe in primary right now, but I used acid malt for sourness. This is from someone else's recipe, can't remember who. And it's for 5 g.

5.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 63.77 %
2.13 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 24.64 %
0.88 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 10.14 %
0.13 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 1.45 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 28.7 IBU
1 Pkgs European Ale (White Labs #WLP011) Yeast-Ale
 
I've got a similar recipe in primary right now, but I used acid malt for sourness. This is from someone else's recipe, can't remember who. And it's for 5 g.

5.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 63.77 %
2.13 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 24.64 %
0.88 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 10.14 %
0.13 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 1.45 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 28.7 IBU
1 Pkgs European Ale (White Labs #WLP011) Yeast-Ale

I Tried that exact recipe and the Acid Malt didn't give me what I was looking for. I was talking to someone at the Lhbs about 2 months ago and he told me about the Souring guiness. I was amazed in the end Just wish I had Nitrogen.
 
Is the 170.5 the strike temp for the mash, or the actual, equalized temperature? What about the 185 for the sparges? I'm fairly certain they're strikes, but it might be worth pointing out.

Could the thawed, soured Guinness be added to the boil pot at 10 minutes remaining, as opposed to the separate boil (ie: what's the justification)?

Very interesting recipe. I've never actually seen a Guinness clone directly address the soured-beer addition. I'm most likely going to be giving this a shot somewhere down the line.
 
I had the exact same question... Those temps seem really high to me for a mash. Are they for strike water temp? What's the actual mash temp supposed to be? Or am I just clueless, I thought you always were within say 145 to 160 range for pretty much all mashes? I want to try this one Sat and want to clarify! :)
 
Looks like it is a formatting error; the temperatures listed are indeed strike temps to equalize at some level. For a stout, I'd guess that the mash temp is 154° and the grain bed during the sparge should be approximately 168°.
 
Is the 170.5 the strike temp for the mash, or the actual, equalized temperature? What about the 185 for the sparges? I'm fairly certain they're strikes, but it might be worth pointing out.Could the thawed, soured Guinness be added to the boil pot at 10 minutes remaining, as opposed to the separate boil (ie: what's the justification)?

170.5 is the strike temp Hold mash at 158.0 for 45 min

185 is what I use for my batch sparges I get better Eff that way.

As far as adding the thawed guiness to the boil, I dont think that it would be a problem. I didnt do it because I was told to do it the other way Ill probably just add it straight to the boil when I make this again.
 
With 3lbs of Flaked Barley did you have any problems with a stuck sparge? I think I might throw in a hand full of rice hulls.

Looks good though...going to try this in a couple weeks. :mug:

No problems with stuck sparge. I hate rice hulls so I will probably never use them again. However if you are worried about it, it wont hurt.
 
You may want to tinker around with a sour mash for a portion of the grainbill; Guinness is 3% sour by volume.
 
I would like to thank you guys for bringing this recipie to my attention... I am a surfer who happened upon your thread. For creaminess in my stouts I force carbonate using a carbonation stone on a long wand to the bottom of my keg from williams and then push and nitrogenate slightly via a 16gram Nitrogen charger, not an 8 gram charge, which is designed for whip cream despensors. The 16 gram charge is attached to the keg through an old pinic gun style pusher designed for 16 gram co2. Bicycle tire inflation devices can be rigged to deliver this as well. I hope this helps in our mutual endevor.

Eric
 
Hello there and thanks for the recipe. After hours of searching on the net for a good guinness draught clone I finally located this thread right under my nose :)

I have done 3 all grain brews now in a cooler MLT. I have some questions about your mashing schedule. Below is the schedule and my questions:

Mash: 3.75 Gal 170.5 Degrees for 45 Min
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 1
2.50 Gal 185.0 Degrees for 20 Min Batch Sparge Round 2

So I mash 3.75 gallons at 170.5 for 45 minutes and then I do two rounds of 2.5 gallons @185 for 20 minutes each?

This is kind of confusing because that is 8.75 gallons of water you are throwing in the cooler. I started with Ed's Haus Pale Ale and would do 3.5 gallons then after 60 minutes adding 5 quarts of 175 degree water and vorlauf. Then I would do 3.25 gallons of 175 degree water for the next batch sparge. That gives about 6.5 gallons for the boil.

This is probably a noob questions but if you could explain your mashing schedule I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

EDIT: I was also curious as to if you added the soured guinness directly to the boiling wort in the last 10 minutes? If so did the recipe come out the same?

EDIT 2: Oh I was doing some math wrong when comparing the recipes. I suppose I simply put in the 3.75 gallons of 170.5 degree water in the MLT and let it sit for 45 minutes. Then I add 2.5 gallons of 185 degree water to the MLT and let it sit for 20 minutes. From there I vorlauf and drain what I have so far into the kettle. Then simply throw another 2.5 gallons of 185 degree water in the MLT and wait 20 minutes. I then vorlauf again and drain the rest of the MLT to the kettle. I then have enough wort for the boil and the excess should burn off leaving me with 5.5 gallons.

I forgot to account for water absorbed by the grain when I was comparing the recipes before. Doh!
 
I found this in a BYO article I found in another thread...

Guinness’ new brew house is laid out in the traditional, top to bottom design. Though the grains are not milled on the top floor, they are sent there by conveyor for storage in the huge grist bins. To mash a batch of Guinness, you’ll need 22 tons of grist (48,501 lb.) of around 65 percent pale malt, 25 percent raw barley, and 10 percent roast. Add that to 50 tons of water (13,233 gallons) in the mash tun, where huge, automatic paddles and knives rotate through the mash to keep it loose and well-mixed.

The water comes from Ireland’s Wicklow mountains. It’s relatively soft, but with the right blend of minerals for a successful mash. It’s the same water that Arthur Guinness used to make stout back in the 18th century.

The mash rests at 65° C (135° F) for 75 minutes, then it is stepped up to 67° C (152.6° F) and held for 45 minutes, then mashed out at 78° C (172° F).

The mash is fully converted in just over two hours, but the whole process takes about three. After mash-out it is automatically transferred to the kieve (pronounced “keev”).


Here is the full article:

http://***********/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/1458-stout-hearted-in-ireland
 
Nice find JSomps6. So it seems that this recipe is very close to the original guinness formula.

I will definitely be trying out this recipe in the near future. Seems that the nitrogen is important to emulating the original. I'd like to have a go at this recipe and if the results are good then perhaps i'd invest in the beer gas setup. I know the guy from my LHBS did and he said it's worth it. :tank:
 
I brewed a 5 gallon batch of this the other day. The brewing day went rather well despite brewing in the rain. I will let you guys know how the beer came out in the following weeks.

Thanks for the recipe :mug:
 
I was looking on the Guinness website and under the Draught section, under the "how we make it" , and they really don't give anything away. The other article is much better. However under the boiling section of "how we make it" I noticed something interesting... that is they add the roasted malt to the boil with the hopps. Now I don't know if this is what they really do... like a decociton even though its the final boil, or if this is a Technical writers mistake. I would guess the PH would have to be monitored to keep from getting Tannins and the like?? It sounded odd....some tricks though work well....any thoughts.

Eric
 
so when you sour the guinness on the counter did you leave the bowl uncover risking an infection in it?
 
Mmmmnnnn I'm sampling from my carbing keg periodically. This stout is great. It's definitely a quaffer and if I had this stuff on nitro I would probably begin to start pissing black lol...

Good stuff RICLARK, two thumbs up in my book.
 
so when you sour the guinness on the counter did you leave the bowl uncover risking an infection in it?

Thats pretty much what your trying to get

When I soured mine I just covered it with a strainer to keep bugs out but otherwise it was completely open to the air.
 
apparently not...

I Tried that exact recipe and the Acid Malt didn't give me what I was looking for. I was talking to someone at the Lhbs about 2 months ago and he told me about the Souring guiness. I was amazed in the end Just wish I had Nitrogen.

Superb work, Riclark. I had a pint of guinness in a pub a while ago and fancied brewing some myself to make black and tan and just drink good dry stout.

I keep forgetting how good Guinness is, probably because I don't like the nitrogen effect. Being able to brew a clone and drink Guinness without the nitrogen... perfect!

Thanks again, Rick.

Out of curiosity, what is actually happening with souring process? Are you letting acetobacter get at the Guinness and therefore putting a bit of vinegar in the final product?
 
170.5 is the strike temp Hold mash at 158.0 for 45 min

I have another question. This is a high mash temp. As a dry stout I would have expected a lower mash temperature in order for it to ferment dry. I would expect this high mash temp to result in a really sweet stout. Is this to create more body to emulate the nitrogen effect, or have I completely misunderstood what Guinness is about?
 
On mine I didn't want it to be too sweet so I mashed at 154, that way I still get some body but should end up a bit drier.
 
Canadian North,"I'm keen to give this recipe a try.

Think I can use raw barley (hulled) instread of flaked barley? Would a cereal mash be required?

thanks!!!"

Threw the articles I've read Guiness now uses raw whole barely and then mills it with the rest of the grain because they have new extremely hard mill heads. In the past they have used flaked barely. I would be worried about your mill a little bit if leaning twards the raw whole barely.
 
I have another question. This is a high mash temp. As a dry stout I would have expected a lower mash temperature in order for it to ferment dry. I would expect this high mash temp to result in a really sweet stout. Is this to create more body to emulate the nitrogen effect, or have I completely misunderstood what Guinness is about?

I agree these temps are to high I think. Correct me if I'm wrong but after doing extensive R&D on my clone some general rules do apply. You want an acid rest when using a high percentage of flaked barely as this receipe does. Page 2s Mash temps are from the brewery. The extended rest of 75 min @ 135 gives the head and texture while also taking away the heaviness and watering the beer down slightly. Guinness is not a heavy beer. The lower mash temp of... what is it 152F?? keeps from adding additional depth and dries the beer. I think another reason adding Guinness helps is thats what they do at the brewery. They supposidly mix batches for taste.... and they also add an extract that is their secret ingredient.

My 2 cents towards collaboration on our mutual endevor:rockin:
 
To me, having a dry stout with that high IBU 's you would need it to be a little sweet to balance out the harshness of the grain and hops.

IIRC it was in Pappa Charlies book The Home Brewers Companion that he tells how to put the "tang " in a Guiness clone by souring and pastuerizing a portion of stout to add to the finished brew.
 
Canadian North,"I'm keen to give this recipe a try.

Think I can use raw barley (hulled) instread of flaked barley? Would a cereal mash be required?

thanks!!!"

Threw the articles I've read Guiness now uses raw whole barely and then mills it with the rest of the grain because they have new extremely hard mill heads. In the past they have used flaked barely. I would be worried about your mill a little bit if leaning twards the raw whole barely.

Yeah, I see what you mean. My mill is homemade, and not so tough - so I'll save the whole barley for roasting and go with the flaked barley
 
brew.jpg


brewed this on friday, we will see how it taste in a few weeks
 
I brewed this on Saturday and I just took a hydro sample yesterday to check it's progress and it was already down to 1.019 and the taste is just amazing. Mine turned out a bit more brown than black but the taste was spot on.

I'm very glad I made 12 gallons of it, thanks for the recipie!
 
Mine was more brown than black also. Are there varying colors for different types of roasted? I have heard 300 and 500 SRM variations and I remember I got the 300. I see this recipe calls for the 300 type.

Then again a guinness draught is kinda brown...
 
is there any reason why this is 10 days in primary and then 10 in secondary. cannot i just have it for 14-21 days in primary?
 
On mine I didn't want it to be too sweet so I mashed at 154, that way I still get some body but should end up a bit drier.

And did you boil the sour Guinness separate or add it to the full boil??
 
Are two packets of Nottingham necessary for a 1.053 OG?? Just seems that 1 would be enough for this but I may be missing something.

I'm going to brew this, this weekend. Thanks.
 
Are two packets of Nottingham necessary for a 1.053 OG?? Just seems that 1 would be enough for this but I may be missing something.

I'm going to brew this, this weekend. Thanks.

1 should be fine...careful with the nottingham isnt this the type that was having some bad batches? I would make sure to create a starter before pitching.
 
I have let this age a bit in the keg tasting it once a week or so, it is a good stout, but even with nitro, it is not a true clone, just my 2 cents
 
I have nitro too, and N2 can change the flavor abit I've noticed. What's your opinnion of the beer and can you list your method please for comparison and vaulting.

I have always thought that the way most of us like to brew ie. using higher gravitys and higher temps this recipe wont work until a few dextrines and a little roastiness is taken out, (by using 75% carafa II to 25% roasted).

After trying to clone Guinness time after time I wanted to discount the simple formulation from the article on page 2 of this post so I went ahead and brewed it. I used the exact brewery ratio of pale,flaked, and roast, listed. I also used the exact brewery temps and times listed and wow that was a rather long protien rest. When mashing I thought "that smells way to dark!" after fermentation I had to get a sip while transfering to the keg because the smell had mellowed. Wow it was mild not as mild as Guinness but the brew was young, and.... N2 changes the flavor a bit. I ended up culturing yeast from the guiness I was going to sour and didn't like what I got. So the beer is un-soured.

I'm going to take this brew put it on "beer gas" and, this may sound wierd, mix some pure malt vinegar in and see if I can get close tasting Guinness and this side by side. I plan to start by using an eye dropper for the vinegar at first to see if it is even possible. This method of using the vinegar for the sour is much more measureable and repeatable. I'm afraid I might win a Darwin award though if it goes wrong, but I'm not to worried since I will be starting the experiment using a glass at a time and work up from there. I just want to try everything I can think of to get to that special sour taste that they get from the extract that they add to the finished product.
 
After trying to clone Guinness time after time I wanted to discount the simple formulation from the article on page 2 of this post so I went ahead and brewed it. I used the exact brewery ratio of pale,flaked, and roast, listed. I also used the exact brewery temps and times listed and wow that was a rather long protien rest.

I'm glad I read your post, I was thinking about those ratios after reading that article also. But before I did it I read it again and dude, it says raw barley, not flaked. So, unprocessed would need the long protein rest at what was it? 135 for 75 min I think... then a second at like 153 for 45. But we are using flaked, that is not raw is it? So it doesn't need the early rest. But I could be wrong!! If we are using what they consider raw and flaked is the same as raw then we SHOULD be thinking of that initial rest. But this clone doesn't have that rest and uses flaked and so many people like this recipe I think rather than waste my time with the ratio's from the article (and don't forget it said ABOUT 65 - 25 - 10 not EXACTLY 65 - 25 - 10) I'll follow the outlaw brew method :) - Thanks Riclarke, I mean he said he had been 'working' at this and others have confirmed the souring of guiness as a confirmed good try at the guiness 'secret' ingredient.
My only change will be to use Irish Ale Yeast 1084 (Wyeast) and I'll make a starter 24 hrs before... I'll not freeze the sour beer, but instead pasteurize and add it to the 0-time wort... Brewing this on Sunday if the weather co-operates.

:mug:
 
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