Rye and Hops

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Those of you who have brewed beers with Rye:

  • What kind of hops have you used?
  • What percentage of rye did you use?

I have done 2 batches with about 7-12% rye and will be brewing 10 gallons AG with 20% Rye (and 10% Munich, 10% Crystal 60, and the rest Pale Malt) on Wednesday.

So far I have only used a Tettang, Haller, Saaz hop combo, but for this batch I was thinking of using a bit of columbus and a few ounces of Goldings.
 
Denny's Brew said:
Those of you who have brewed beers with Rye:

  • What kind of hops have you used?
  • What percentage of rye did you use?

I have done 2 batches with about 7-12% rye and will be brewing 10 gallons AG with 20% Rye (and 10% Munich, 10% Crystal 60, and the rest Pale Malt) on Wednesday.

So far I have only used a Tettang, Haller, Saaz hop combo, but for this batch I was thinking of using a bit of columbus and a few ounces of Goldings.

I would use no more than 10% of the flaked rye, and 15% for the rye malt, but i have seen it used up to 60%.
as for the hops
Hallertau hersbrucker
mittelfruh
perle
spalt
tettnang
but your choices will work as well.
Hope this helps
 
Denny's Brew said:
Those of you who have brewed beers with Rye:
  • What kind of hops have you used?
  • What percentage of rye did you use?
I have done 2 batches with about 7-12% rye and will be brewing 10 gallons AG with 20% Rye (and 10% Munich, 10% Crystal 60, and the rest Pale Malt) on Wednesday.

So far I have only used a Tettang, Haller, Saaz hop combo, but for this batch I was thinking of using a bit of columbus and a few ounces of Goldings.

I'd also bump the rye down to no more than 15% because you'll increase your chances of getting a stuck mash. If you use the 20% like you want to, add some rice hulls to the mash to help filter it. Shouldn't have any problems then.

A search on here might find you the recipe for Janx's Humboldt Rye ( I think that is what he called it) recipe. I think it is loosely based on Hop Rod Rye. It might give you a good indication of how much to use, but if I were doing it, I'd do between 15-20%. If you are going to do a rye beer, put some damn rye in it!!! :)
 
ORRELSE said:
I'd also bump the rye down to no more than 15% because you'll increase your chances of getting a stuck mash. If you use the 20% like you want to, add some rice hulls to the mash to help filter it. Shouldn't have any problems then.

A search on here might find you the recipe for Janx's Humboldt Rye ( I think that is what he called it) recipe. I think it is loosely based on Hop Rod Rye. It might give you a good indication of how much to use, but if I were doing it, I'd do between 15-20%. If you are going to do a rye beer, put some damn rye in it!!! :)

I agree, rice hulls would be a plus in this kind of beer when it comes to sparging time.
 
I just pulled a rye ipa recipe from Denny on Northern Brewers forum that is supposed to be a very good recipe. He uses Mt Hood and Columbus hops. The rye for this is 2.5 lb vs 9.5 lb pale with 1 lb crystal 60, .5 lb carapils, .5 lb wheat. MP Wall
 
cbotrice said:
I just pulled a rye ipa recipe from Denny on Northern Brewers forum that is supposed to be a very good recipe. He uses Mt Hood and Columbus hops. The rye for this is 2.5 lb vs 9.5 lb pale with 1 lb crystal 60, .5 lb carapils, .5 lb wheat. MP Wall

Can you post the entire recipe? I've seen Denny's recipe on the greenboard and I just searched for it but now I can't find it. The guy that I swiped the Fat Tire and Smoked Porter recipes from also makes a rye recipe. I'll post that (if I can find it) for reference.
 
Bear Republic's Hop Rod Rye uses 18-20% Rye and is basically a Left Coast IPA. They don't list the hops, but having had a few, I'd bet on Columbus & Cascade.

I've never used more than 10% rye (except for the 18 lb bran muffin). If I try a high rye IPA again, I'll pre-cook the rye to get the starch dissolved before adding it to the mash.
 
i've used up to 20% rye in a Rye PA w/ chinook, pearl, willamette, and cascade hops. i didn't use rice hulls, but it is a good idea. especially if you do the hop rod rye clone. the hop rod rye has tomahawk, centennial, and amarillo hops in it. you can use columbus instead of the tomahawk. i've read that they are the almost the same hop, and very close in AA's.
 
Check out the % of rye used in traditional German Roggenbiers:

:eek:

15D. Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Aroma: Light to moderate spicy rye aroma intermingled with light to moderate weizen yeast aromatics (spicy clove and fruity esters, either banana or citrus). Light noble hops are acceptable. Can have a somewhat acidic aroma from rye and yeast. No diacetyl.
Appearance: Light coppery-orange to very dark reddish or coppery-brown color. Large creamy off-white to tan head, quite dense and persistent (often thick and rocky). Cloudy, hazy appearance.
Flavor: Grainy, moderately-low to moderately-strong spicy rye flavor, often having a hearty flavor reminiscent of rye or pumpernickel bread. Medium to medium-low bitterness allows an initial malt sweetness (sometimes with a bit of caramel) to be tasted before yeast and rye character takes over. Low to moderate weizen yeast character (banana, clove, and sometimes citrus), although the balance can vary. Medium-dry, grainy finish with a tangy, lightly bitter (from rye) aftertaste. Low to moderate noble hop flavor acceptable, and can persist into aftertaste. No diacetyl.
Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full body. High carbonation. Light tartness optional.
Overall Impression: A dunkelweizen made with rye rather than wheat, but with a greater body and light finishing hops.
History: A specialty beer originally brewed in Regensburg, Bavaria as a more distinctive variant of a dunkelweizen using malted rye instead of malted wheat.
Comments: American-style rye beers, or traditional beer styles with enough rye added to give a noticeable rye character should be entered in the specialty beer category instead. Rye is a huskless grain and is difficult to mash, often resulting in a gummy mash texture that is prone to sticking. Rye has been characterized as having the most assertive flavor of all cereal grains. It is inappropriate to add caraway seeds to a roggenbier (as some American brewers do); the rye character is traditionally from the rye grain only.
Ingredients: Malted rye typically constitutes 50% or greater of the grist (some versions have 60-65% rye). Remainder of grist can include pale malt, Munich malt, wheat malt, crystal malt and/or small amounts of debittered dark malts for color adjustment. Weizen yeast provides distinctive banana esters and clove phenols. Light usage of noble hops in bitterness, flavor and aroma. Lower fermentation temperatures accentuate the clove character by suppressing ester formation. Decoction mash commonly used (as with weizenbiers).


DeRoux's Broux said:
the hop rod rye has tomahawk, centennial, and amarillo hops in it.

Where did you get that? Interesting!
 
byo had an issue of the 13 biggest hop beer clones. Hop Rod Rye and Racer 5 IPA were two from Bear Republic listed. it came from the brewer too, so it's legit, i suppose.....
 
I did my version of Janx' recipe last May and only have two 22-oz. bottles left. It's interesting how the flavor has changed over time. At first, the hop flavor bordered on harsh and grassy. After a month, it mellowed considerably. I had one over the weekend and now that nearly seven months have passed since brewing this, it seems to be at it's peak!:rolleyes:

I plan to do the AG recipe exactly as he did it, now that I have the hops in my inventory. Probably brew it late Janurary '06 for prime consumption this summer.
 
I've made 8 AG batches this year, all were 20% rye. 2# of malted rye, and 1 1/2 rice hulls. I only had 1 stuck sparge- the clerk at the HBS told me he layered the separatly mashed rye into the lauter tun. So i mixed it with my big spoon.

I do get quite a lot of starch/gum though. Too bad I've ground my grist together for my next batch...I'll try boiling the rye before mashing on the next batch. And maybe just a teaspoon of caraway?
 
brewsmith and i exchanged some brews, and he sent me a Hop Rod Rye, a Racer 5 IPA, and a Stone Ruination IPA for me to try. it's supposed to be delivered today, so i can't wait to try it. i've been wanting to brew a hop rod, but i like to taste the brew before i clone it. this could be my hook?!?!?!?!
 
DeRoux's Broux said:
brewsmith and i exchanged some brews, and he sent me a Hop Rod Rye, a Racer 5 IPA, and a Stone Ruination IPA for me to try. it's supposed to be delivered today, so i can't wait to try it. i've been wanting to brew a hop rod, but i like to taste the brew before i clone it. this could be my hook?!?!?!?!

Dude, you are going to love the Hop Rod. That is one of those rare life changing beers. You'll just sit back and say WOW.

My last bottle disappeared mysteriously. :(
 
ORRELSE said:
Ingredients: Malted rye typically constitutes 50% or greater of the grist (some versions have 60-65% rye). Remainder of grist can include pale malt, Munich malt, wheat malt, crystal malt and/or small amounts of debittered dark malts for color adjustment. Weizen yeast provides distinctive banana esters and clove phenols. Light usage of noble hops in bitterness, flavor and aroma. Lower fermentation temperatures accentuate the clove character by suppressing ester formation. Decoction mash commonly used (as with weizenbiers).

I think it's the decoction that makes the difference when it comes to sparging the mash. They make for a less viscous mash that is more easily sparged.
 
Kai said:
I think it's the decoction that makes the difference when it comes to sparging the mash. They make for a less viscous mash that is more easily sparged.
yep, i've read that too. never done a decoction mash, but it makes sense....

orrelse, i need a life changing beer. kinda been in a rut. wish it came delivered chilled!:p
 
Here are Dennis Conn's RYE IPA recipes, all grain and extract.

DC's Rye IPA – All Grain Recipe1
O.G.: 1.073
F.G.: 1.013
IBU: 68

9.5 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)
2.5 lbs. Rye Malt
1.0 lbs. Crystal 60L
0.5 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt
0.5 lbs. Wheat Malt


1.0 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, First Wort Hop
1.0 oz. Columbus, 17.8% Alpha Acid, 60 min.
0.5 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, 30 min.
1.5 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, 0 min.
1.0 oz.oz. Columbus, 17.8% Alpha Acid, Dry Hop


BrewTek CL-50 California Pub Brewery Ale Yeast or Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast II

1 tsp. Gypsum
1 tsp. Irish Moss


Mash grains at 153o F for 60 minutes. Mash out at 170o F and sparge with 170o F water. Collect enough run off to end up with 5 gallons after a 70-minute boil. Add first wort hops and gypsum and bring to a boil. Boil for 10 minutes then add second hop addition. Boil 30 minutes more and add next hop addition. Boil 20 minutes more then add Irish moss. After a 70-minute boil, turn of burner and add 1.5 oz. of Mt. Hood hops. Chill to below 65o F, transfer to fermenter, pitch yeast and aerate well. Ferment at 62-65o F until fermentation is complete. Rack to secondary fermenter with dry hops and age for a week. Bottle with 0.75 cups of corn sugar.
DC's Rye IPA – Mini-Mash/Extract Recipe

4.25 lbs. Light Dry Malt Extract
2.5 lbs. Pale Malt (2-row)
2.5 lbs. Rye Malt
1.0 lbs. Crystal 60L
0.5 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt
0.5 lbs. Wheat Malt


1.0 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, First Wort Hop
1.33 oz. Columbus, 17.8% Alpha Acid, 60 min.
0.5 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, 30 min.
1.5 oz. Mt. Hood, 4.9% Alpha Acid, 0 min.
1.0 oz. Columbus, 17.8% Alpha Acid, Dry Hop


BrewTek CL-50 California Pub Brewery Ale Yeast or Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast II

1 tsp. Gypsum
1 tsp. Irish Moss


The rye and wheat malt in this recipe must be mashed, so this extract recipe incorporates a mini-mash. Heat 8.5 quarts of water to 167o F, then add crushed grains. Stir well to distribute heat. Temperature should stabilize at about 153 o F. Wrap a towel around the pot and set aside for an hour. Heat mini-mash to 170o F then pour into a strainer. Rinse with 170o F water, collecting approximately 3 gallons of wort. Stir in extract and add first wort hops and gypsum and bring to a boil. Boil for 10 minutes then add second hop addition. Boil 30 minutes more and add next hop addition. Boil 20 minutes more then add Irish moss. After a 70-minute boil, turn of burner and add 1.5 oz. of Mt. Hood hops. Transfer to fermenter filled with 2.5 gallons of cold water (top-up to 5 gallons if necessary). When temperature drops below 65o F, pitch yeast and aerate well. Ferment at 62-65o F until fermentation is complete. Rack to secondary fermenter with dry hops and age for a week. Bottle with 0.75 cups of corn sugar.
 
For Roggen Bier I used Perle and Czech Saaz. For American Rye I used Columbus and Cascade. Before brewing with rye, I read this article.


Wild
 
ORRELSE said:
Dude, you are going to love the Hop Rod. That is one of those rare life changing beers. You'll just sit back and say WOW...

Man, you hit the nail on the head with this post for sure! It definately is a life changing beer, as ever since my first bottle, I have cloned it many, many times, and no matter what, there has to be a cornie, carboy or bucket with some in it at all times. I love Hop Rod Rye more than any other brew.

:D I have one dry hopping right now... Opps...I need to get another grain bill together for another batch!
 
Tony said:
Man, you hit the nail on the head with this post for sure! It definately is a life changing beer, as ever since my first bottle, I have cloned it many, many times, and no matter what, there has to be a cornie, carboy or bucket with some in it at all times. I love Hop Rod Rye more than any other brew.

:D I have one dry hopping right now... Opps...I need to get another grain bill together for another batch!

Yep, and I can't believe Sam or I haven't cloned it yet. :(
We both had the same reaction to it the first time we had some. When we got to have it on tap at the beer conference in Baltimore last summer, it was even better!

If I do a rye, I'll probably do Denny Conn's recipe. I've heard nothign but great stuff about that beer.

Tony, I wish I had some bottled beers to swap with you. I'd love to try your rye. Maybe I'll bottle up some of my latest Fat Tire clone and we'll swap? :cool:
 
Sounds good to me, I would be glad to. I just ordered a Beer Gun, and will be making up singles from all my bathces as soon as I get it.
 
ORRELSE said:
Yep, and I can't believe Sam or I haven't cloned it yet. :(
We both had the same reaction to it the first time we had some. When we got to have it on tap at the beer conference in Baltimore last summer, it was even better!

If I do a rye, I'll probably do Denny Conn's recipe. I've heard nothign but great stuff about that beer.

Tony, I wish I had some bottled beers to swap with you. I'd love to try your rye. Maybe I'll bottle up some of my latest Fat Tire clone and we'll swap?

awe man, it was good! drank my hop rod and the racer 5 last night. I NEED MORE!!!! my next batch for sure!:drunk:
 
Thanks guys.

I made 10 gallons with the following recipe:

Pale Malt - 4.14 Kg
Munich - .94 Kg
Crystal 60 - 1.06 Kg
Flaked Rye - 1.8 Kg
Flaked Barley - .94 Kg

Columbus - FWH - 1 oz
Goldings - FWH - 1 oz
Goldings - 15 - .5 oz
Goldings - Dry - .75 oz

Mashed at 158F

90 minute Boil.

I've realized my Mashtun needs to be bigger for 10 Gallon batches, or at least nay with flakes of any kind. The flakes swelled up bigger than all the rest of the malt combined..leading to a stuck mash, which I fixed by dividing the mash into two parts, but what a pain!

I realized that I didn't have quite enough for a 10 gallon batch to reach the OG I wanted so I added the Barley flake.

OG was 1.054
IBU 47
SRM 11.2

I was batch sparging and I took the third runnings and made a 1.032 OG 5 gallon batch as a "lighter" beer.
60 min boil:
.35 oz - Columbus - FWH
.5 oz - Goldings - 15
.25 - Goldings - Dry Hop

Used Nottingham for all above.
 
Sorry if it is already discussed somewhere--but is flaked rye and rye malt the same thing? I know it is still rye, but will the flaked Do the same thing in a beer as far as flavor?
All my HBS has is flaked. I wasn't sure so I didn't get it.

:confused:
 
ORRELSE said:
Sorry if it is already discussed somewhere--but is flaked rye and rye malt the same thing? I know it is still rye, but will the flaked Do the same thing in a beer as far as flavor?
All my HBS has is flaked. I wasn't sure so I didn't get it.

:confused:


Supposedly its pretty close, just no enzymes. But as one pale malt differs from another, I'm sure it depends on the source etc.

I can't find any rye malt either. I'd like to see the difference too. There's a HBS store in Vancouver that is linked to a microbrew next door. They seem to carry everything but Rye malt, rice hulls and lactose.
 
Flaked is pre-gelatinized I believe. And of course it's smushed so it looks like oatmeal. So, it's not malted, but it's water soluble.

That's funny. I can always find malted rye, but just recently came across the flaked at Beverage People. I don't even think morebeer had it (though that's hard to imagine). You can definitely get the malted rye from morebeer.

And as far as hops, Tomahawk is just a trade name for Columbus that someone owns. It's the same stuff. The alpha bomb ;)

Cheers :D
 
Exerpt from BYO:
Commercially available forms of rye.
Whole rye berries can be used, but they must be cracked first and then cooked in a cereal cooker for gelatinization. The cereal should be heated and stirred until it stops thickening (an indication that most of the starches have been exploded) and then added to the mash. Using this several-step process not only adds preparation time to the brewing process, but, compared to using rye flakes, whole-grain rye tends to increase runoff and sparge times because the cracked rye is quite sticky and doesn't dissolve in solution as readily as commercially available rye flakes.
Rolled rye, available in bulk at health food stores and grain suppliers, is also a fine, inexpensive form of rye. During the rolling process, the rye is flattened under hot, heavy rollers. The heat and pressure from the rollers gelatinizes the rye starch, thus eliminating the need for precooking the rye. Rolled rye makes a good, readily available adjunct, which is why so many brewers began their first rye beer experiments with it.
Roasted rye, more difficult to find but available through specialty stores such as Liberty Malt Supply (Seattle), provide yet another option for experimentation.
Rye malt adds a distinct flavor to the brew. Malting modifies the rye grain in a way that eliminates some of the unwanted effects that are present when using unmalted rye. According to the authors of a study published in Crop Science, "Such a qualitative modification apparently cannot be accomplished by enzymes from the malted barley when they act on unmalted rye" (1).
Rye flakes may provide the most trouble-free source of rye for your recipe; rye flakes available from Briess Malting Company (Chilton, Wisconsin) disintegrate readily and can be obtained through homebrew supply stores.
As demand increases, the varieties, forms, and sources of rye will likely also increase; rye beer pioneer Grant Johnston has already experimented with a smoked rye, pushing even further the possibilities of taste and color. Ultimately, market demand will dictate the general availability of the various strains and forms of rye. Increased interest in rye should motivate suppliers to diversify and expand their rye stock. For now, at least, there is enough rye and resourcefulness to keep most brewers busy for some time.

Wild
 
wild said:
Rye malt adds a distinct flavor to the brew. Malting modifies the rye grain in a way that eliminates some of the unwanted effects that are present when using unmalted rye. According to the authors of a study published in Crop Science, "Such a qualitative modification apparently cannot be accomplished by enzymes from the malted barley when they act on unmalted rye" (1).

I wonder what those "unwanted effects" are?
 
I've wondered too. So far each time I've used rye, the result had been terrific. (Knock on wood)

Wild
 
Janx said:
...And as far as hops, Tomahawk is just a trade name for Columbus that someone owns...

I have always been using Columbus for my Hop Rod Rye, and this time actually got a hold of some Tomahawk for my last batch. I can definately taste a "slight" difference, but its basically the same. Tomahawk seems to have a slightly sharper taste than the Columbus. That could be from how fresh they were, or something on that line, but I definately tasted a difference. Who knows...it was definately not a controlled test :p

I had previously inquired with hops dealers about the differences in Tomahawk, Columbus and Zeus hops. Zeus is provably different because it comes from purer root stock and yeilds higher. But Columbus and Tomahawk has been tested with gas chromatography and tested identical. And like Janx said, its an ownership issue, as the guy that patented Tomahawk, was one of the 3 people who came up with Columbus.

I buy my rye malt and flaked rye from Midwest all the time, as they always have both in stock. I usually use 2 pounds of malted rye, and 1 pound of flaked. the flaked is indeed pre-gelatinized and falls apart quickly in the mash. Ive actually tossed it in while crushing my grains before, just to see it there was a difference in run off or taste etc...but, it didnt. Oh well.

Either way, I use both for a fuller rye flavor.
 
wild said:
I've wondered too. So far each time I've used rye, the result had been terrific. (Knock on wood)

Biggest risk with rye is a stuck mash as far as I know. I had an 8 hour sparge once and swore the stuff off forever. Of course, now it' s a house standard. No problems yet sparging the Humboldt Hop Rod/Hop Rod Rye Clone recipes yet.

Cheers :D
 
How does mashing rye compare with mashing wheat in terms of stuck sparges? I've used up to 50% wheat with 1/2# of rice hulls with no issues. One thing that seems to help is opening the drain valve ssslllooowwwllllyy...kind of sneaking up on the mash. I eventually get it wide open (as I batch sparge), and it seems to work okay.
 
My last wheat was composed of:
6 lbs Wheat Malt
5 lbs Pilsner
1 lb Flaked Wheat
and had no problem with my run off. So far I have had good success using both wheats and ryes, both flaked and malted.

Im going to try 3 pounds of rye on my next one, as well as using chocolate rye malt to see how it goes. Rye's and Wheat's are two of my favorites to brew.
 
I suspect part of it may be lautertun configuration, or more specifically the manifold. In my old tun I had a braided hose which worked 75% of the time, but the other 25% would stick with almost any grain bill. Usually blowing through the hose would unstick it, but once I had to dump the mash into a bucket and then back in. With my new tun (rectangular cooler) I built the venerable slotted copper pipe manifold which so far hasn't come close to sticking on 3 batches...the next one could be my 25%, though!
 
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