My chocolate stout tastes like crappy chocolate cake...

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ZeeSniper

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Recipe I used, one of my first. Looking back I wonder if I should have put more thought into it:

Steeping:
1 lb Chocolate
12 oz Barley Flakes

Malt/Sugars
6lb Dark DME
2 lbs Dark Brown Sugar
1 lb Honey

Hops:
1oz Fuggle (60 min)
1oz Vanguard (30 min)
0.5 oz Vanguard (20-5 mins, sprinkled in slowly).

10 oz Cocoa Powder
1.5 oz Chocolate Extract (racked onto keg)
-----------

Primary: 6 weeks
Kegged: Aging/Carb 3 weeks

EDIT: OG: 1.080
FG: 1.020


I sampled some 3 weeks after kegging. The aroma smells like a really awesome chocolate cake. The taste however, is quite off. Its SUPER cocoa-like. Very astringent, with heavy alcohol at the end. It's like eating an alcohol-infused chocolate cake, but very dry, and sugarless. It's not quite what I was expecting.

I fear I may have overdone it. I think the combination of all the cocoa powder, honey, and brown sugar may have made it too dry, and the addition of some more malt instead would have been better.

What do you guys think, will it get much better with another month or two of aging? Is there anything I can do at this point to make it better?
 
I have a cherry stout that I used 1 lb of lowfat, unsweetened cocoa powder in. I added it to secondary, no boil. I'm not sure I like the result and am hoping by fall the flavors meld a bit more. I know the more aromatic flavors dissipate with time.
 
ZeeSniper said:
Recipe I used, one of my first. Looking back I wonder if I should have put more thought into it:

Steeping:
1 lb Chocolate
12 oz Barley Flakes

Malt/Sugars
6lb Dark DME
2 lbs Dark Brown Sugar
1 lb Honey

Hops:
1oz Fuggle (60 min)
1oz Vanguard (30 min)
0.5 oz Vanguard (20-5 mins, sprinkled in slowly).

10 oz Cocoa Powder
1.5 oz Chocolate Extract (racked onto keg)
-----------

Primary: 6 weeks
Kegged: Aging/Carb 3 weeks

EDIT: OG: 1.080
FG: 1.020


I sampled some 3 weeks after kegging. The aroma smells like a really awesome chocolate cake. The taste however, is quite off. Its SUPER cocoa-like. Very astringent, with heavy alcohol at the end. It's like eating an alcohol-infused chocolate cake, but very dry, and sugarless. It's not quite what I was expecting.

I fear I may have overdone it. I think the combination of all the cocoa powder, honey, and brown sugar may have made it too dry, and the addition of some more malt instead would have been better.

What do you guys think, will it get much better with another month or two of aging? Is there anything I can do at this point to make it better?
Click to expand...



Aside from giving it more time, time, and more time, I dunno, Splenda maybe? Perhaps you could put some in a pint glass and dispense on top of that to see if it helps?

Keyth
 
The honey and brown sugar likely dried it out a bit more than you were expecting. I usually add Lactose to my chocolate stouts to add a little sweetness and body, so it doesnt end up so dry.
 
"What do you guys think, will it get much better with another month or two of aging? Is there anything I can do at this point to make it better?"

The grains will mellow and the alcohol should tame down, but there is no way to take out all that cocoa.

A local bar serves a chocolate stout with a shot of Framboise (sweet raspberry)
 
So when you guys say to add lactose, you mean it can be done straight into the keg? Wouldn't this start up fermentation again?
 
Well, at 1.020 I doubt that the beer is very dry. My guess is that the chocolate/cocoa is giving it a bitter taste. Also, how was your fermentation temps? I know that 1.08 is a decent sized beer, but you shouldn't get a lot of alcohol taste from that, especially with such a high FG to balance it out. Was the cocoa powder unsweetened? Unsweetened cocoa is quite bitter, IMO. And the chocolate extract? What kinda of 'chocolate extract' was is? How did that taste?
Personally, if I wanted chocolate flavor in a beer, I'd use a light chocolate malt (the dark ones are more bitter to me), and maybe some cocoa nibs in secondary and possibly even a some vanilla beans. IME, vanilla beans and chocolate malt give a nice chocolate-y flavor. I'd steer clear of cocoa powder, not that it won't work, but nibs seem like a much better way to impart a natural chocolate flavor. I'd also bottle a beer like this, kegging's great, but I'd think a beer like this would get better with age and conditioning and in my house, kegs seldom last very long.
 
It was indeed unsweetened cocoa powder. I don't remember the exact ferm temp, this was done in my school apartment. I would say it was around 70-75.

I wouldn't know the exact chocolate extract right now. I have it back at my other apartment but I'll post it later if necessary.

So if I'm to add lactose to my keg (I will probably take your suggestion and bottle these later) how much do you think I would need? I'm sure there are different amounts needed depending what sort of taste I want, but you can safely assume that all that is tasted right now is cocoa powder.

I really don't want to dump an entire batch, I'd rather try cutting it with something when drinking it rather than dumping, or use it for experimentation.
 
I think the mistake here is chocolate extract.

As for fixing it... not really sure. Maybe try pouring pint of this cut 50/50 with a really full-bodied beer and see if you like it, then brew a small batch of a similar beer and blend... HOWEVER, my first recommendation is to back away from the beer. Put it in a closet under a pile of clothes and try it again in december. My first AG brew was a chocolate stout... it had problems, but after 4 months it was delicious.
 
MazdaMatt said:
I think the mistake here is chocolate extract.

As for fixing it... not really sure. Maybe try pouring pint of this cut 50/50 with a really full-bodied beer and see if you like it, then brew a small batch of a similar beer and blend... HOWEVER, my first recommendation is to back away from the beer. Put it in a closet under a pile of clothes and try it again in december. My first AG brew was a chocolate stout... it had problems, but after 4 months it was delicious.
Click to expand...


I was thinking something along these lines, or maybe making some addition of lactose and then letting it sit for a few months. I'm just not sure how much I want/need to add
 
My stouts usually take about 6-8 weeks to mellow out. I tried a few before that and they tasted like monkey butt. (Well, what I think monkey butt might taste like.) Some have taken longer. Has to do with the bitter malts I think. I bottle condition usually, but that's my time frame. Let it carb up and let it sit for a while and see if the taste blends and mellows out for you. I kegged one once and it still took a while to get the right taste. If that doesn't work then find a dog, they love stouts!

beerloaf
 
iambeer said:
One vote for dumping. No offense, but that recipe is offensive.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

First, barley flakes need to be mashed. Second, brown sugar and honey have no place in a chocolate stout. Third, chocolate extract? Really?

I don't believe that I've ever seen a more ill-conceived recipe in my life.
 
Give it time. The alcohol should fade and so should the cocoa some. I would be curious to see how the lactose changes your perception.

What is up with the recipe snobbery? This ain't old Bavaria!
 
I would try to let this sit a long as you can. A lot of harsh flavors will mellow with time. Pay no mind to the bashing of your recipe. No beer is a waste or failure as long a you learned something from it. That lesson would be that honey and sugar (brown or not) usually come very close to fully fermenting out which will give a beer a dry taste. I would also not add anything. You're trying to get this beer to jive with all of the flavors you already put into it, adding more attendees to the party isn't going to quiet things down.
 
SledgeH said:
I would try to let this sit a long as you can. A lot of harsh flavors will mellow with time. Pay no mind to the bashing of your recipe. No beer is a waste or failure as long a you learned something from it. That lesson would be that honey and sugar (brown or not) usually come very close to fully fermenting out which will give a beer a dry taste. I would also not add anything. You're trying to get this beer to jive with all of the flavors you already put into it, adding more attendees to the party isn't going to quiet things down.
Click to expand...

Yeah actually kind of surprised at the bashers myself. I knew some would say the recipe is bad, but not so harshly. Their excuse of course will be that it helps teach me a good lesson, well imo the ruined beer is the only real good teacher here.

I believe I'll follow your advice for now. I'll probably forget about it for a few months. If by then it still doesn't turn out maybe I'll go with the other suggestions of adding some lactose.
 
bja said:
I was thinking the same thing.

First, barley flakes need to be mashed. Second, brown sugar and honey have no place in a chocolate stout. Third, chocolate extract? Really?

I don't believe that I've ever seen a more ill-conceived recipe in my life.
Click to expand...

What is wrong with a little experimentation? I recently had a beer at Dogfish and I believe it was made with chickpeas and corn, Did I like it, not really, but who the hell am I?

Just because you don't agree with somebody's recipe, doesn't mean you should go on and bash it.

on another note,
I say let it ride, I tried to make an eggnog stout this past December, It tasted nothing like eggnog, more like coca cola. thought it was horrible. Put the bottles in the back of my shelf and forgot about it, a couple months later and it actually tasted way better. (Still not like eggnog though) So just bottle it up and forget about it, Is there a gauruntee that it will taste better, No, but I wouldn't toss it just yet.
 
ZeeSniper said:
Yeah actually kind of surprised at the bashers myself. I knew some would say the recipe is bad, but not so harshly. Their excuse of course will be that it helps teach me a good lesson, well imo the ruined beer is the only real good teacher here.

I believe I'll follow your advice for now. I'll probably forget about it for a few months. If by then it still doesn't turn out maybe I'll go with the other suggestions of adding some lactose.
Click to expand...

Yeah, kinda surprising that you got your recipe flamed... ah well, the recipe was most likely the cause of the no-so-tasty beer, but it's your learning experience. Definitely let the beer ride and see how it develops over time.
Personally, I think that the simpler recipe is always the best, even when making a complex beer.... especially with your first try at a particular recipe. Try a basic sweet stout recipe, and maybe add one flavoring to it; cocoa in this case to get a chocolate stout. After drinking that, assess whether or not you need to tweak the recipe; like adjusting the cocoa amounts or adding something to augment the cocoa. Simplicity, even in a complex beer, will usually net good results. :mug:
 
ZeeSniper said:
Yeah actually kind of surprised at the bashers myself. I knew some would say the recipe is bad, but not so harshly.
Click to expand...

iskuse said:
Just because you don't agree with somebody's recipe, doesn't mean you should go on and bash it.
Click to expand...

NordeastBrewer77 said:
Yeah, kinda surprising that you got your recipe flamed... ah well, the recipe was most likely the cause of the no-so-tasty beer,
Click to expand...

The beer was bad because the recipe sucks. Simple as that.

Some people need to grow some thicker skin.
 
bja said:
The beer was bad because the recipe sucks. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

This was painfully obvious, and the purpose of the entire post was the figure out how to fix it. If I'm asking how to fix it, I know its broke.


bja said:
Some people need to grow some thicker skin.
Click to expand...

Usually those who feel the need to put others down in public (especially in a beginner forum) are the ones who have issues with insecurity. Not the ones who openly admit their mistakes and ask for help.
 
There is a LOTTTTT of cocoa in there holy cow. Let it age for a while. Speaking of which...I haven't thought about my RIS thats been sitting since the end of March. Hmmm
 
I just made my second chocolate oatmeal stout. What I do is use about 4 ounces of cocoa mixed with a pound of malto dextrin and 2 cups of water. Bring that to a boil and keep warm till you start to boil the wort, then dump it in with the wort for the full boil. Has worked for me so far, and leaves a nice light chocolate taste to the beer.
 
I added cocoa nibs to a nut brown recently and my wife did not care for the bitter notes. We added lactose to taste at bottling time and it is so much better. Cocoa needs a good partner to play off of. If the wait and see approach doesn't pan out then lactose might be a viable second option. Only reason I would dump a beer would be to make room for better beers.
 
ZeeSniper said:
This was painfully obvious, and the purpose of the entire post was the figure out how to fix it. If I'm asking how to fix it, I know its broke.

Usually those who feel the need to put others down in public (especially in a beginner forum) are the ones who have issues with insecurity. Not the ones who openly admit their mistakes and ask for help.
Click to expand...

malevolent said:
This is BEGINNERS BEER BREWING FORUM. Teach the new brewers don't flame them.
Click to expand...

iskuse said:
Thanks for the information, it was very constructive! I already feel like a better brewer thanks to you.
Click to expand...

Wow, did I mistakenly post in the "My little pony" forum? :D
 
I guess bja is not here to help, just stir up some arguments. Put down the keyboard and mouse, everyone realizes what you are.

I have found that with my not so tasty beers, that if you mix them when pouring with another beer, it usually helps. Maybe make another milk stout and try mixing it with that? Or a raspberry wheat or something along those lines. Experimentation is the only way to learn! :)
Kudos for formulating your own recipe, the next one will be much better!
 
Not to highjack a thread, but since you are discussing the addition of chocolate to a beer recipe, I was think of mixing in 5 ounces of unsweetened bakers chocolate at the very end to the hot wort of a Brewer's Best robust porter extract recipe. Any thoughts there?
 
I said dump it earlier and I put down the recipe without explanation, so I am guilty of a recipe 'bashing'. I am sorry I didn't provide an explanation.. that was rude. I was definitely offended by the chocolate soup and thought the whole post was meant as a practical joke, but I guess I was wrong--sorry.

I would still scrap the recipe and start with a new one, based closely if not identical to a proven recipe matching the intended beer. I would just move on as soon as possible and forget this. Why spend more energy on something that will likely not be drinkable? There's too much chocolate and it's too dry. The useful lesson has already been learned. May I suggest the recipe database on this forum? I can't recommend one in particular because I have never made a chocolate stout. Best of luck.
 
D_Nyholm said:
Experimentation is the only way to learn! :)
Kudos for formulating your own recipe, the next one will be much better!
Click to expand...

Experimentation is not the only way to learn. You can learn by following the rules. Which means you'll then know the lines end--you'll know when you are actually experimenting and at the same time you'll know how to make beer. If the OP keeps experimenting without looking at a proven recipe, then it might be better than this recipe; flip a coin.
 

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