Should I have pitched less?

I brewed a Magic Hat #9 clone 2 days go. I pitched a full vial of White Labs WLP022 yeast. Fermentation has been vigorous. I am fermenting it in a 6.5 gallon carboy. At about 18 hours after pitching, I removed the airlock and switched to a blowoff tube due to enormous volumes of krausen being pushed out the top. 48 hours later and it is still pushing foam and material out the top!
Fermenting ambient temp started at 73, and is currently 68.

My question is, did I do anything wrong? Should I to have pitched the entire vial or something less? This is only my second brew.

Thanks,
Matt

Only one vial, you probably underpitched. What was the OG?

Also, your fermenting temp started a bit high, which would have helped it take off but may cause a few esters for you.

But no, that went about right. Alsways use blow off tubes for the first week of fermentation. Fermentation can and will be crazy when it wants!

Actually you probably pitched less than you should have because it is advised that you use a starter with liquid yeast. But everything should be fine since you have s vigorous fermentation.

OG was 1.056

There was a note on the vial that said to start fermentation above 70 degrees, so I kept it in a warmer part of the house. My basement is 61-63 degrees this time of year, so I decided not to put it down there just based on that note.

Starter....I read that chapter and promptly forgot about it. I'll remember to do that next time.

Thanks for the information. We are enjoying watching the science experiment!

Kokopuff829 said:

Actually you probably pitched less than you should have because it is advised that you use a starter with liquid yeast. But everything should be fine since you have s vigorous fermentation.

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I use White Labs and they don't advise using a starter because their yeast is in liquid form.

mappler said:

OG was 1.056

There was a note on the vial that said to start fermentation above 70 degrees, so I kept it in a warmer part of the house. My basement is 61-63 degrees this time of year, so I decided not to put it down there just based on that note.

Starter....I read that chapter and promptly forgot about it. I'll remember to do that next time.

Thanks for the information. We are enjoying watching the science experiment!

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You're fine. After you pitch the yeast and before visible fermentation occurs the yeast are in a "lag" phase. It's a normal part of the yeasts' life cycle. White Labs recommends leaving the wort at 70-75 degrees to start fermentation faster as there are very little off flavors that are produced during this phase. Once fermentation starts cool the wort down to the recommended temp for the yeast which is the temp of the wort and not the ambient temp. Fermentation produces heat anywhere from 5-10 degrees above ambient temperature.

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/Yeast_Life_Cycle.pdf

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_FAQ.html

The white labs FAQ recommends a starter for all beers over 1.060 OG or if the yeast is a little old. Some authors recommend starters for even lower OG beers. The general idea is that yeast that need to work harder tend to create more off flavors. That said, not using a starter will still create beer in 99% of cases.

MuchoGusto said:

I use White Labs and they don't advise using a starter because their yeast is in liquid form.

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i thought that starters were s'posed to be made when using liquid? i believe that's the general consensus around here, at least. it's dry that i've heard is better to not make a starter with. the exception here being when the dry has been washed and is thus in fact a liquid yeast culture.

MuchoGusto said:

I use White Labs and they don't advise using a starter because their yeast is in liquid form.

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False. They don't advise making a starter because they want their product to seem as hassle free as possible.

pabloj13 said:

False. They don't advise making a starter because they want their product to seem as hassle free as possible.

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exactly. same with Wy. they market their products as easy and ready to use, thus the 'direct pitch activator'. most of us know that a starter is needed with these products, and make them. even Chris White, owner of White Labs wrote that a starter is needed when using liquid yeast cultures, even his liquid yeast cultures, to ensure viability and a proper pitch rate.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

exactly. same with Wy. they market their products as easy and ready to use, thus the 'direct pitch activator'. most of us know that a starter is needed with these products, and make them. even Chris White, owner of White Labs wrote that a starter is needed when using liquid yeast cultures, even his liquid yeast cultures, to ensure viability and a proper pitch rate.

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I mean what kind of marketing strategy woud this be: "Well we know you can just buy and directly pitch dry yeast at a lower cost, but for MORE money you get the added benefit of having to make a starter!!"

pabloj13 said:

I mean what kind of marketing strategy woud this be: "Well we know you can just buy and directly pitch dry yeast at a lower cost, but for MORE money you get the added benefit of having to make a starter!!"

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hey man, it worked for me. it's actually way cheaper than buying enough vials or packs to pitch the right cell count. which, by the way, Wy and WL would love!

NordeastBrewer77 said:

hey man, it worked for me. it's actually way cheaper than buying enough vials or packs to pitch the right cell count. which, by the way, Wy and WL would love!

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There's nothing wrong with either kind. Dry yeast is cheap and easy and works well. The real advantage of liquid is the variety available.

pabloj13 said:

There's nothing wrong with either kind. Dry yeast is cheap and easy and works well. The real advantage of liquid is the variety available.

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very true. i use s-05 a lot in my american ales, but for variety, nothing beats liquid.

pabloj13 said:

False. They don't advise making a starter because they want their product to seem as hassle free as possible.

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But they do advise making a starter based on a high OG of the wort. No where is there credible evidence a starter is necessary simply because the yeast are in liquid form vs. dry. That was my point.

MuchoGusto said:

But they do advise making a starter based on a high OG of the wort. No where is there credible evidence a starter is necessary simply because the yeast are in liquid form vs. dry. That was my point.

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Sure there is. Viability of liquid yeast drops much more rapidly than viability of dry yeast. Couple that with the fact that liquid yeast packs already have fewer cells than dry yeast and there are plenty of reasons why you would need a starter with liquid but not dry.

MuchoGusto said:

No where is there credible evidence a starter is necessary simply because the yeast are in liquid form vs. dry. That was my point.

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that's just not true, man. there's plenty of credible evidence out there that a starter is needed for almost any 5 gal batch when using liquid yeast. where do you get the idea that there's no credible evidence to support that?

If a starter was necessary there would be failure out the wazoo. To make a blanket statement that is starter is necessary when using liquid yeast with out qualifying the statement is a misrepresentation. I use liquid yeast without a starter and have been successful every single time as have many others.

I was addressing the other poster's statement that implied a starter was necessary when using liquid yeast (or the result will be failure). That is simply not true.

MuchoGusto said:

If a starter was necessary there would be failure out the wazoo. To make a blanket statement that is starter is necessary when using liquid yeast with out qualifying the statement is a misrepresentation. I use liquid yeast without a starter and have been successful every single time as have many others.

I was addressing the other poster's statement that implied a starter was necessary when using liquid yeast (or the result will be failure). That is simply not true.

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oh, so it's this argument again? this one comes up at least once a week.

corrected statement: "whereas a starter isn't necessary with liquid yeast, it is advised for any beer with an OG of 1.028 or higher (assuming 5 gal batch size. and fresh, <week old yeast)."

is that better? if you disagree with that, i suggest consulting this yeast calculator. if you still disagree, search this topic here on HBT. there's quite a few threads where this argument is the topic at hand.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

oh, so it's this argument again? this one comes up at least once a week.

corrected statement: "whereas a starter isn't necessary with liquid yeast, it is advised for any beer with an OG of 1.028 or higher (assuming 5 gal batch size. and fresh, <week old yeast)."

is that better? if you disagree with that, i suggest consulting this yeast calculator. if you still disagree, search this topic here on HBT. there's quite a few threads where this argument is the topic at hand.

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I don't need to search the topic. We are on the same page... you have to see past the trees. Clearly, there are times it is advised (and stupid if you don't) to make a starter. A blanket statement that if using liquid yeast you must make a starter or (implied) one is doomed is a misstatement proven up by a gillion folks who make successful beer and can't spell "starter".

Do you want to leave some new guy with the impression that if he doesn't make a starter using liquid yeast he's doomed under every circumstance?

MuchoGusto said:

Do you want to leave some new guy with the impression that if he doesn't make a starter using liquid yeast he's doomed under every circumstance?

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no, i would never imply that someone is doomed if they don't make a starter. nor have i ever implied anything close to that. in fact, i've brewed good beer without making a starter. but i also wouldn't want to give a new brewer the impression that they don't have to make a starter when using liquid. you know the numbers, 90% of the ales people brew with liquid require a starter according to online calculators. and i know, and i assume you do too, that you're better off pitching an appropriate amount of yeast than you are under pitching your wort. a pack or vial contains ~70 bil cells. no matter what it states on the package, 70 billion cells is enough yeast for 5 gal of 1.028 wort. for a beer with a higher OG, 70 bil cells would be an under pitch which is also something i'd never advise a new brewer to do.