Any cheaper alternatives to brewing?

Bought a kit from my local Wine and Hop shop.

The kit is a Dunkleweiss beer and had alot of malt and some dry malt extract along with some grain to steep in cold water. The instructions never mentioned when to add the dry malt so I hope adding it in with the regular malt was a good idea, anyways..

Im wondering why it costs so much for the kit: 40 dollars for everything, plus energy making it, etc.

Looking at the ingredients it should only cost about 15 bucks to get. Anyone else buy these kits? Or is it just a gimmick for them to make a quick buck?

Anquiring minds would like to know. :rockin:

-Tom

britishbloke said:

Bought a kit from my local Wine and Hop shop.

The kit is a Dunkleweiss beer and had alot of malt and some dry malt extract along with some grain to steep in cold water. The instructions never mentioned when to add the dry malt so I hope adding it in with the regular malt was a good idea, anyways..

Im wondering why it costs so much for the kit: 40 dollars for everything, plus energy making it, etc.

Looking at the ingredients it should only cost about 15 bucks to get. Anyone else buy these kits? Or is it just a gimmick for them to make a quick buck?

Anquiring minds would like to know. :rockin:

-Tom

Click to expand...

When you acquire the space, experience, and willingness to put in the time, go all-grain. You'll save a lot of money, apparently. Malt extracts can be pricey, but buying the grain in large enough quantities is very cost-effective.

Also, the energy required to make it is (to me) one of the parts that makes the hobby so satisfying.

Consider what you'd spend on two cases of good beer. If it's more than $40, then you're saving money anyway.

Yeah it seems that the malt is the pricey part.

Hmmmmm I am looking into and trying to understand the whole mash tun deal.
Thats what makes the barley into malt from what I understand.

Im making a cheap version of Cider which only costed around 30 bucks.

Im in college so its a little harder for me to be able to spend money on buying kits.

Some ways to reduce costs:

Use dry yeast and/or harvest and reuse yeast. (Dry yeast is cheap, so not much sense in bothering to harvest and save it).

Buy malt extract in bulk from a high-volume dealer like Northern Brewer, Morebeer.com, or Austin Homebrew Supply, instead of kits or LME in a can. DME has several advantages, but costs a bit more. Fresh LME can make very good beer though--the freshness makes a big difference.

Don't buy kits: you'll save a few bucks just by putting the ingredients together yourself.

If you have some freezer space, you can buy hops in larger quantities and save quite a bit of the prices HBSs charge.

And finally, the way to save the most on the ingredients for brewing is to go all-grain. BUt this does require an initial investmment in equipment, it means a lot more gear to store, and a brew session will take roughly 3 or 4 times longer than for extract.

britishbloke said:

Yeah it seems that the malt is the pricey part.

Hmmmmm I am looking into and trying to understand the whole mash tun deal.
Thats what makes the barley into malt from what I understand.

Im making a cheap version of Cider which only costed around 30 bucks.

Im in college so its a little harder for me to be able to spend money on buying kits.

Click to expand...

Plain ol' barley is converted to malted barley by the process of malting, which is done before you even buy the grain. Basically, the grain is germinated to a point and then dried. What you see in the homebrew shop is malted barley.

A mash tun is a vessel used during brewing to "rinse" the sugars out of the malted barley.

$40 for a kit seems a bit expensive to me. Perhaps you should shop around a bit more.

I'm also a bit confused by the grains to be steeped in cold water?? They specifically told you cold water? It should be more like 150-160F water, correct?

Since malt is the biggest part of the cost, the higher the gravity, the higher the cost. If $40 + some energy gives you 40 pints, that's much better than anything except BMC (or whatever the yellow fizz is called in the UK).

If you're just looking for maximum alcohol for the money, you can add a lot of table sugar to cider (2 kg per 19 liters) and almost double the ABV. Ferment it at the cool end of the temperature range & it won't be too harsh.

Walker, care to start this up again?

All grain ingredients are cheaper, but you have to be careful calling all grain brewing cheaper altogether. If you find some rock bottom deals on equipment, you can save a ton of money doing AG brews. However, it's gonna take me a year or more before I make up the cost of equipment overhead by brewing AG. That said, I find it much more enjoyable than extract brewing, so it was worth the initial investment.

cweston said:

Don't buy kits: you'll save a few bucks just by putting the ingredients together yourself.

Click to expand...

I know this is conventional wisdom, but it seems like I always end up spending 10 dollars more when I make my own recipe rather than using a kit. it's because I hop it up, or make a bigger beer, but the end result is that I spend more.

$40 is pretty high for a kit, though.

I spend $1.39 for a lb of malt extract. I buy in bulk.

I am perfectly happy spending 1.5 hours to make a batch of beer using extract rather than taking 4 or 5 hours for an AG batch.

Normal recipe for me costs....

Malt extract - 7lbs ($10)
Specialty grains-2 lbs max usually($4)
Hops- 2 Oz. ($2) I buy in bulk
Yeast.....(nothing really....I usually buy a white labs vial and use it to brew all year with. I usually get 12 batches out of one vial....So what....$.50 per batch? Lets call it $1!)

So I spend @ $17 per batch unless I use adjuncts or make a heavy beer.....I don't think you can do it cheaper by going All-grain.



If you get 70% efficiency doing all grain then you would use 11 lbs of grain to get 7.7 lbs of sugar. Bulk Grain costs @75 cents/lb. 11 Lbs would cost $8.25. My 7 lbs of extract costs $9.73.

I don't think the difference in price is worth all the extra work to do All Grain.

Now you can argue quality but cost is what this thread is about.

So Buy in Bulk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are going to make more than one batch....right?

Where exactly can you buy this Malt extract - 7lbs ($10) in bulk?

This seems like a fair idea to me!

Thanks alot.....

http://www.leisure-time.com/muntmalt.htm


You have to buy 33 lbs to get the bulk price!


My local store matched the price so I do not have to pay shipping! Well ... $49 actually but close enough.

Are there any combinations from that webpage that could give me a good recipe for pale ale? Or indian pale ale?

http://www.leisure-time.com/beersups.htm

I posted in another thread that I found a good deal on bulk dry malt extract:

ryser2k said:

I just wanted to mention that I found a better deal on Bulk DME (for me at least). The Grape and Granary in Ohio has 50 lb of Briess DME for $115 ($2.30/lb). Shipping via UPS or Fedex for me is only $18, since this store is much closer to me than Northern Brewer or Midwest Supplies.

They also have Munton's for $139 ($2.52/lb) and Laaglander for $134 ($2.44/lb). These are 55 lb containers.

Click to expand...

I just ordered some supplies from Mt. Washington Homebrew (http://www.brewbyyou.com/) after some people had mentioned their wort chillers (they raised the price, but at least a few people ordered them and received their orders without problems). For the prices, I figured I'd give them a shot. I got 12 lbs of liquid extract for $20 ($1.66 a pound). Hopefully the order comes That's enough to do 2 batches of moderate strength homebrew. In contrast, my LHBS only sells 3.3 lb cans of muntons, at a price of $14 each. Ouch! My mail order came to $50 and was enough ingredients for a pale ale and the infamous caramel cream ale, plus an auto siphon for the wife. Not too shabby. Their prices on everything were really fantastic. If it all comes ok, I'll let you know. If not, then I'll post warning everyone to stay away...

dougjones31 said:

If you get 70% efficiency doing all grain then you would use 11 lbs of grain to get 7.7 lbs of sugar. Bulk Grain costs @75 cents/lb. 11 Lbs would cost $8.25. My 7 lbs of extract costs $9.73.

I don't think the difference in price is worth all the extra work to do All Grain.

Now you can argue quality but cost is what this thread is about.

Click to expand...

I've heard it's not uncommon for people to get a 50 lb bag of uncracked 2 row for around $30. That would be $0.60 a lb so $6.60 for a batch, saving a little less than $2. Insignificant, yeah. I think the big kicker though is that if you buy whole grain in bulk, you can store it for quite some time. Bulk liquid extract is only good for a few months. Bulk dry extract will keep a long time, but you'd be at around $13 a batch for an equivalent amount of dry extract if you bulk order it from grape and granery.

I think if you want to be able to bulk order your supplies 1-2 times a year, and keep your batches as cheap as possible, whole grain is the only way to go.

Wow, yeah that site brewbyyou.com looks awesome.

Is this a good deal to make beer?

C2134 Amber Extract $44.95 $44.95
Click here to delete this item

C3000A Specialty Grain Munton's Pale $4.95 $4.95
Click here to delete this item

Hopspec Hop Special 1lb $10.00 $10.00
Total: $59.90

I would think this would make 5 batches for around 12-16 bucks a batch.
Id have to get the dry yeast procedure down though, lol.

The purpose of home brewing is to have a flavor and quality not found in commercial brewing. So cutting corners on expense will mostly result in defeating that goal. But bulk buying is common sense economically and does not sacrafice quality.

Point understood Genghis77,

but the kits cant be that far off from the bulk ingredient.
I cant make and dont understand how to make a all grain brew yet.

Ive made three batches of beer, with bulk prices I could add more ingredients into each brew to make it taste a little better.

Here's my take on it:
Buy light extract in bulk...and forget the hopped and/or colored extracts.

Steep specialty grains (usually very cheap even in small quantities) to add unique flavors and color to your brew.

For hops - find a commercial beer you like, note the hops variety/varieties used to make it, and buy a pound of those hops, whole, in bulk.

Dry yeast is cheap and easy to use - go for it. Try and get packages that aren't too old.

There are plenty of recipes around here that will lead you in the right direction if you brew with this method/ingredients. Good luck!

Wow,

OK so go for the light malt.

I always would think light would mean butd light miller light etc.

But you mean that you can change the flavor easily from one kind to another?

I was thinking about getting the Amber malt.

That sounds like a good idea.......

It's common to buy base malt extract (extra-light or light malt extract) in bulk, and steep grains for color and flavor. You can make a stout with extra-light extract and steeping chocolate amlt and roasted barley, for example.

Here's the philosophy on light extract + grains:

The extract will give you the majority of the fermentable sugars but very little flavor. The grain is where you get the malty flavor and body. Light crystal grains will result in little color difference but better body and head retention. Darker roasted grains will impart darker colors and chocolate, coffee, and roasted flavors. There are also medium color/flavored grains you can use to impart unique flavors and characteristics - like Vienna, biscuit, 60L crystal, etc. Use a pound or two of any combination of grains to change the flavor of your beer.

To get those flavors and body out of the grain, heat enough water to cover the grains to about 165 degrees. Add the grain - that should put you around 155. Cover, and let it steep for 30 minutes or so. Strain out the grain, add the grain "tea" to your brew, and proceed with the boil as you would for any other extract recipe.

Differing hops will change the flavor and aroma a lot as well - for example, IPA style beers depend on heavy amounts of hops to get their characteristic bitterness and aroma.

Make sense now?

EDIT: Almost forgot, you need to make sure you mill or "crush" the grain before steeping.
Ha, chillHayze, you beat me to it on this one...

I would just offer my summary of economical brewing.....

1. Buy a quality light base malt extract. Like the others have said, it is desirable and easy to steep grains to get the flavor and color of the final product. Yes, you would have to use more steeped specialty grains to make a porter or stout with a light base, but you can't make a pilsner or light lager using a darker base malt. You can't remove the color. So to be an economical brewer, you have to buy lighter base extracts and you have to buy them in bulk.

I guess the biggest concern would be choosing which brand to buy. One big factor is the percentage of fermentables that is in the extract. Some brands have less fermentables which causes them to leave more of their original character in the flavor. IE more malty character. If you brew a lot of styles of beer where this is not desired then you should by a brand of extract that is higher in fermentables.

2. Buy your specialty grains in larger quantities. You will learn the ones you use most and buy a lb or two at a time. They will store well, especially in the fridge.

3. Buy bulk quantities of your favorite hops varieties. If you pick a variety of alpha ratings, you can substitute what hops you have into different recipies. If you do a "Hops Variety" search, you can read up and see which hops are similar and can be substituted.

4. The most important choice to make is YEAST.

The amount of money you spend here is going to be directly proportional to your seriousness about this hobby. Liquid yeast is the number one reason why we can brew really good beer. The yeast plays a huge roll in creating the flavors that are in beer. Good liquid yeast strains make it possible for us to really clone beers or fine tune the taste of our own creations.

If you just want to pump out 5 gallons of generic ale or generic lager then fine....go buy yourself some dry yeast and you are set. It is the cheap way out. But if you want to really create, you must make an investment. Yes, you can pay $6 for a tube of White Labs and brew one batch with it, but if you learn how to manage yeast then you can buy 4 or 5 tubes and use them to brew with all year long. That is economical and it is not that hard to do.

Let's say you buy a tube of liquid yeast. After you brew the first batch with it, you split the yeast cake in 3 parts and store it in 3 jars in the fridge. Yeast can be easily kept 3 months this way. You just need to make a starter with what is in the jar everytime you brew which is fun to me anyway. Anyway, if you brew one batch every month with this one strain of yeast it would play out like this.

month 1 - original tube of yeast ferment bathch and save in 3 bottles(BottleA,B,C)
month 2 - brew a batch with bottle A (discard yeast after use)
month 3 - Brew a batch with bottle B (discard yeast after use)
Month 4 - Brew a batch with bottle C (take the cake from this and split and refil bottles A,B, and C)
Month 5 - Brew with bottle A (discard yeast after use)
Month 6 - Brew with bottle B (discard yeast after use)
Month 7 - Brew with bottle C (take the cake from this and split and refil bottles A,B, and C)
Month 8 - A (discard yeast after use)
Month 9 - B (discard yeast after use)
Month 10 - C (take the cake from this and split and refil bottles A,B, and C)
Month 11 - A (discard yeast after use)
Month 12 - B (discard yeast after use)
Month 13 - C (discard after use and order a new tube of this strain)

That works out great..you have not reused more than 4 times so it has not had a chance to mutate much. I would never reuse more that this. You can stretch your yeast out a little longer by splitting the first yeast cake into more parts or by putting more time in between batches, or by freezing the yeast for long term storage. If you were to freeze yeast then 1 tube of liquid yeast could last you the rest of your life~!

Making yeast starters is a good idea all of the time. It makes sure you are pitching active yeast in sufficient quatities to start a fast ferment. So the only real hassle with having your own little yeast farm is where to put it. I have found that the original tubes that White Labs uses are great and they don't take up much room in the fridge. A good farm will requires 20 or so containers,if you use my 3 sample system. If you use grolsch bottles than that would require alot of space. Probably too much for the average brewer. But if you use WL Tubes or Baby Food jars, you can store them in just about any kitchen fridge if you do not have a dedicated fermenting fridge.

I would note that a yeast cake will fill more than 3 WL tubes or baby food jars, so if you can store in larger jars it would be better because your starter could be smaller using the larger jars of stored yeast. IE... more less cost for your yeast starters.

britishbloke said:

Wow, yeah that site brewbyyou.com looks awesome.

Is this a good deal to make beer?

C2134 Amber Extract $44.95 $44.95
Click here to delete this item

C3000A Specialty Grain Munton's Pale $4.95 $4.95
Click here to delete this item

Hopspec Hop Special 1lb $10.00 $10.00
Total: $59.90

I would think this would make 5 batches for around 12-16 bucks a batch.
Id have to get the dry yeast procedure down though, lol.

Click to expand...

You could make several batches, yeah, might be a bit bland though. I'd get some crystal malts at least and a few hop varieties and you can make some pale ales cheap.

They sell their own yeast too, for $3.95 a vial. I ordered one to try. If you make a starter and split it in two, that $3.95 vial should be good for a lot of batches. I'd estimate you can easily get 16 batches out of one vial, if you split it to start with and collect it after each brew.

OK so for a pale ale, go with light extract not amber.

Use crystal malts for grains.

Ill have to check which hops I like from my favorite IPA usually anchor steam beer.

Im thinking about ordering today.

dougjones31:

Is infection a big concern with harvesting yeast cakes? Also, don't you get some flavor from the leftover trub of a previous batch? For example, I have an oatmeal stout fermenting with White Labs London Ale yeast; can I use that for an english pale w/o worrying about a strange stout taste? I'm interested in re-using yeast, but it seems complicated and difficult to me, and restrictive in the sense that you'd have to brew the same style over and over.