Thin mash for first AG?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

bearymore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
I've been planning my first AG batch and have been reading John Palmer's book fairly religiously. I decided the safest thing to do for my first batch was to follow the recipe and procedure for Oak Butt Brown Ale that he describes in great detail in the chapter "Your First All-Grain Batch." Here's my confusion: He recommends mashing at 2 qts. per pound, yet everything I have seen on this and other forums, not to speak of Beersmith's defaults, say that 2 qt./lb. is really thin - especially if the temperature needs adjusting. What I think is going on is that 2 qts/lb works out to about 5 gallons for the mash and 3.5 for the sparge. Adjusting for water retained by the grain, this yields equal mash and sparge runoff. Since Palmer says "batch sparging works best when two sparge volumes of the same size are combined to create the wort," (p.183), it is fairly clear that the 2 qt/lb ratio was chosen to make this happen.

OK, so here is the question. If you follow the formulas in the book, normal size beers (OG ~1.05 - about 10 lbs of grain for a 5.5 gal. batch) need about 2 qt/lb to arrive at equal runoffs (bigger beers get thicker mashes). Is the thin mash but equal runoffs more efficient than thickening the mash and making the first runoff smaller than the second?
 
bearymore said:
I've been planning my first AG batch and have been reading John Palmer's book fairly religiously. I decided the safest thing to do for my first batch was to follow the recipe and procedure for Oak Butt Brown Ale that he describes in great detail in the chapter "Your First All-Grain Batch." Here's my confusion: He recommends mashing at 2 qts. per pound, yet everything I have seen on this and other forums, not to speak of Beersmith's defaults, say that 2 qt./lb. is really thin - especially if the temperature needs adjusting. What I think is going on is that 2 qts/lb works out to about 5 gallons for the mash and 3.5 for the sparge. Adjusting for water retained by the grain, this yields equal mash and sparge runoff. Since Palmer says "batch sparging works best when two sparge volumes of the same size are combined to create the wort," (p.183), it is fairly clear that the 2 qt/lb ratio was chosen to make this happen.

OK, so here is the question. If you follow the formulas in the book, normal size beers (OG ~1.05 - about 10 lbs of grain for a 5.5 gal. batch) need about 2 qt/lb to arrive at equal runoffs (bigger beers get thicker mashes). Is the thin mash but equal runoffs more efficient than thickening the mash and making the first runoff smaller than the second?

Truthfully, I shoot for 1.25 or 1.3 range and will adjust the mashout water to make the 2 runnings equal. So, for example, if you used X gallons (I didn't calculate this, I'm just making it up) in the mash instead of Y, you could add Z amount of mash out water at a specific temperature to bring your sparge volumes equal. Depending on how hot your "mash out" addition is - as you control it - you can regulate the size and volume equality of the 2 sparges.

OK, that wasn't a good description. Maybe someone else will be clearer.
 
I'm no expert...but i do AG brew.

I've never done 2qt/lb of grain. I essentially do the math to figure out what I need to get two equal volumes from the mash and sparge. I don't double sparge (at this time...)

You lose something like .2 gal of water per pound of grain due to absorption, so 10lbs of grain makes you lose 2gallons, so a 5gal mash gives 3 gal into the kettle, and then another 3-3.5 gal sparge gets you to a boil volume. then you boil that down to roughly 5gal for primary.

that's how I do it. I'm usually 1.3-1.5qt of strike water per pound of grain..on a single infusion batch sparge.

I think the issue with too thin a mash is that your pH may be off, and you get tannin extraction. If thinnest wasn't a problem, we'd all use as little grain as possible and just sparge and sparge and sparge.


I'm sure others will have additional input.
 
I've only got 7 mashes under my belt, but here's what I have learned...

Until you have your equipment and process nailed down and consistient, you will miss your mash temperatures by a few degrees one way or the other. Going with a thicker mash will leave you the room to add hot or cold water to adjust the temperature.

I shoot for 1.25qt/lb, and end up between 1.3 and 1.5 qt/lb. at my target temp.
 
OK, let me try to clarify my answer now that I've had a beer.

Use 1.25-1.30 ratio and mash. Whatever you need to add to this volume to make it equal your next run-off (the sum of both will be your Kettle volume), add it for the mashout addition. This additional water serves two purposes. One to bring your temp up to around 166-168 degrees. Secondly, it gives the the flexibility to balance your first sparge volume in order to create two equal runoffs.

The temp of the mashout water will be dependant on how much water you need to add to get equal runoffs.

Crap, I don't think that was any better.:eek:
 
xamers said:
OK, let me try to clarify my answer now that I've had a beer.

Use 1.25-1.30 ratio and mash. Whatever you need to add to this volume to make it equal your next run-off (the sum of both will be your Kettle volume), add it for the mashout addition. This additional water serves two purposes. One to bring your temp up to around 166-168 degrees. Secondly, it gives the the flexibility to balance your first sparge volume in order to create two equal runoffs.

The temp of the mashout water will be dependant on how much water you need to add to get equal runoffs.

Crap, I don't think that was any better.:eek:

That's pretty good actually. So, if I need 3.5 gal runoff, that implies I need 5 gallons total, counting grain absorption. If I mash at 1.3 qts./lb, that's 3.25 gallons. So I need to add 1.75 gallons at mashout to get my 3.5 gallons runoff. This water would have to be 202 degrees to raise a 152 degree mash to 168. Did I get it right?

So this sounds like I need to do a mashout for total efficiency, since I want to get the two runnings to be equal while doing a thicker mash.
 
bearymore said:
That's pretty good actually. So, if I need 3.5 gal runoff, that implies I need 5 gallons total, counting grain absorption. If I mash at 1.3 qts./lb, that's 3.25 gallons. So I need to add 1.75 gallons at mashout to get my 3.5 gallons runoff. This water would have to be 202 degrees to raise a 152 degree mash to 168. Did I get it right?

So this sounds like I need to do a mashout for total efficiency, since I want to get the two runnings to be equal while doing a thicker mash.

While I didn't work out the calculations, you've got the principle A-OK.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top