Oxidation Problems

So after entering 3 brews into a competition and receiving the judging sheet, i am beginning to think that something in my process is causing off flavors due to oxidation ( because that is what they said).

I was not really sure what to look for and how to taste off flavors due to oxidation, until tonight. I am relatively new to brewing started around sept i think, but anyway i cracked open an imperial ipa with dinner and started to notice an off flavor that i had tasted in some of my other beers. At first i thought i was drinking a different beer due to the off flavor but then realized that this might be caused by oxidation.

I have been racking my beer to 2ndary ferm for most of my pales and ipas some for dry hopping and others just because i thought that was the way to go (started with papazians book). After some recent research on the 2ndary debate i am going to try and not use a 2ndary unless dry hopping to see if that changes anything.

I am using a 6 gal glass carboy for 2ndary and there is usually a good amount of airspace in the carboy. Could this be one reason why i am having problems with oxidation? And do you have any suggestions to reduce oxidation? would those oxygen caps help?

please help me make my beer taste better!!

While I am much more of a noob than you, I am most interested in this thread. I had someone mention that you could put a layer of C02 on top of the beer in the secondary if you have a kegging system, which I don't.
I wonder if there is a simple way to introduce C02 on top of the beer without a keg setup.

yeah using a 6 gallon to secondary is not the preferred size, for that reason because of the headspace. Some folks offset this by adding glass marbles to the secondary which displaces the beer to the correct sized space, which is pretty high.

An yes one of the recommendations for long primarying is indeed to reduce the chance of oxydation from reducing the amount of racking during the course of the brew cycle, this does cut down of the risk of too much o2 contact from splashing, etc.

Oxygen barrier caps are really not a means of eliminating oxydation- they are more a protective measure for long term storage. But if you've sloshed your beer too much before that, using them is not going to cancel that wet cardboard taste.

So how are you filling your bottles when you bottle?

yea i think im going to start using my 6gal carboy for primary now and possibly later on get a smaller one for 2ndary for dry hopping.

I rack my beer to a plastic bottling bucket and use one of those filler tubes, with the spring at the end, attached to the spigot at the bottom of the bucket. Fill from the bottom up obviously...

A lot of folks these days do dry hop the last week of their extended primary with no issues.

Gland to know you're using the wand. I've been surprised to find out that some folks fill directly from the spigot top down.....

Of course it sucks that we didn't just find the reason for your issues though....

haha yea that would be an easy fix.

As far as dry hopping in the primary, can you still harvest the yeast? if so would you just use a normal rinsing procedure?

I don't know, but it is possible that the head space in the 6g carboy could lead to oxidation.
I have some 5g glass carboys that I no longer use.
I live in Ridge, and work in Holtsville. I could lend you one for a few months so you can see if that gets rid of the problem, or I could sell you one at a reasonable cost (make me an offer), or I would be happy to trade 2 5g glass carboys for 1 6g glass carboy.
If you are interested, send me a PM and we can make arrangements.

-a.

ajf - i have to think about that im not so sure i want to get rid of my 6gal just yet.


but as far as a primary goes what is a good size for 5 gal batches?

I am just thinking that there would still be some air space above the beer in a 6gal primary, but would there not be any oxygen above the beer since it would be forced out by c02 during fermentation?

t-bear said:

ajf - i have to think about that im not so sure i want to get rid of my 6gal just yet.


but as far as a primary goes what is a good size for 5 gal batches?

I am just thinking that there would still be some air space above the beer in a 6gal primary, but would there not be any oxygen above the beer since it would be forced out by c02 during fermentation?

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Yes, that's the theory. It's not going to stay there indefinitely, though, as it will eventually seek equilibrium, but it does help.

I use 6.5g carboys for primaries, and keep the beer in them for 2 - 4 weeks before kegging, or transferring to a 5g secondary for bulk aging or dry hopping. I start with about 5.5g in the primary, and end up with 5g in the keg or secondary. I've not had any oxidation problems doing this, but oxidation takes time, and my beers have usually gone fairly quickly. I have had a few batches that didn't taste too good early on, but were fine after 6 - 9 months of aging.
If I use a 6g carboy as a primary, I usually need a blow-off tube, and end up with less than 5g.
If you use a 6g carboy as a primary, I definitely wouldn't trade it for some 5g's as primaries are IMO much more useful than secondaries.
If you want to borrow a 5g carboy for a few months to see if it gets rid of your problems, I'll be happy to lend you one.

-a.

t-bear said:

So after entering 3 brews into a competition and receiving the judging sheet, i am beginning to think that something in my process is causing off flavors due to oxidation ( because that is what they said).

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Did the judges have the same comments on all of your beers?

Even if you don't have a kegging setup, I think putting a few dollars towards corny kegs is a worthwhile investment. You can get cornies for ~$20/ea, which is cheaper than a 5g glass carboy in most places, cornies are obviously better containers for beer, its a step towards kegging if you wish to go down that road in the future, you can transfer under pressure, and so on.

I usually use 6g carboys for primary, try to knock out 5.5g, and sometimes need a blowoff tube. Depends on the strain, I think.

If you are getting "oxidation" comments on all your beers, I think you should just not rack to a secondary. I don't know about washing/harvesting yeast but this would absolutely solve any issues of oxidation related to secondary head space.

ayoungrad said:

Did the judges have the same comments on all of your beers?

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yes they all said that there was a wet cardboard /papery smell and checked the oxidation box on the off flavors section

and i think im going avoid secondary unless i dry hop and when i do ill use a smaller carboy

hopefully that will help