Solar Power

Is there anyone out there in the HomeBrew Talk world that is familiar with solar power. I have a bunch of questions about what I need. I don't want to talk to a salesmen about it because they want to sell you all the stuff you don't need.
I am responsible for the family cabin now and my family are the ones that use it the most. Having a steady source of electricity sure would be nice. We don't need much just enough for probably a couple of lights, the TV, direct TV box and the occasional microwave. And maybe the washer and gas dryer every now and then during the peak of the day. There is no power within at least 10 miles so getting it ran to the cabin is not in the budget. We have a massive generator but it is good for depleting the cash reserves really fast and I only want to use it for welding and construction work.
Thanks

From what I can remember, you can find a hemisphere map online that would give you a idea of your solar index. Your solar panels are usually angled about 10 degrees less than your latitude to your latitude. Generally a 100watt panel will give you 300-400 watts a day. Your generally keeping a battery bank charged and then using an inverter to run AC appliances. Lights can be dc so largest consideration would be motor on dryer and microwave.

I took a week course in PV systems. I've only installed one system. It is a large grid tied with battery backup system.

You need a small stand alone system. There is a fair amount of math involved in properly sizing the battery and the array. You have to start with a load analysis.

It's basically Array --> Charge Controller --> Battery --> Inverter. Using DC loads is a good idea too.

Would a wind/solar off grid wouk better. I ahve looked into this a couple times.

and if you hace a back up fuel genie, then you are set.

some of the new wind genies are easy to mount and make big power for under 1000usd

The dryer may be a problem heat elements draw a huge amount of current. Think of a small 1500 watt heater. You might want to go with propane for the fridge and stove. Solar at this time is about a 15-20 year payback and then you need to replace. There are lots of propane and natural gas appliances out there give them a try.

RTI for a grid tie system could be 10-20 years off (depend on the local price per kw/h) but stand alone systems can be much cheaper than connecting to the grid in remote locations.

You could use an electric dryer with full sun. You will need enough panels and inverter that can push the current. Running a dryer off the battery is not a good idea.

Ok, there is no way to get a grid tie in we are 10 miles from the nearest line through the national forest. If the line was to follow the 50 year old county road it would be a 45 mile trip, not cost effective. I have a gas fridge, gas stove, and a gas dryer all I need is to be able to turn the drum with electricity. My plan is to only use the washer and dryer in the daylight not off the batteries. For my power requirements. I have 4 plugins one will be for a microwave every now and then, one will be for the TV and the cable box. the other two will most likely used to charged batteries for the kids toys and a radio. I have 4 lights in the cabin. Not a lot of power required.

A kit like these is the easy way. Still needs a inverter and battery. Probably could find a better kit. I haven't looked much.
http://www.solar-electric.com/rvandsmbasoc.html

If you size an inverter for your microwave and dryer motor, probably just use one at a time, use dc for lights then your probably looking at a reasonably sized array. You would need a structure to mount the solar panels and store the batteries.

Weird coincidence, my future sister in law works in the solar industry. Her last name? Coulter...

well can I get a discount Does she have family out of Arkansas, Idaho, or California. We may actually be related. The Coulter family is very large.

Without the grid, I wouldn't bother with Solar Cells. The real financial benefit of having solar cells, is to sell the extra electricity that you aren't consuming. Sure you could store the energy in batteries, but they can be costly and they won't last a long time.

Have you considered a natural gas generator?

She lives in California actually, but all her family is in Michigan and PA. I might actually be able to get you some information from her if youd like. Shes a busy bee though, hard to corner sometimes.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

snccoulter said:

. For my power requirements. I have 4 plugins one will be for a microwave every now and then, one will be for the TV and the cable box. the other two will most likely used to charged batteries for the kids toys and a radio. I have 4 lights in the cabin. Not a lot of power required.

Click to expand...

You have a fifth plug for the Keg Fridge right, you must have overlooked that one. LOL :cross:

I have no need for a keg fridge. I will have a large barrel with creek water flowing in at the bottom and out at the top. This creek is cold. it probably flows in the high 40's in the height of the summer. I will not put my toes in it. and I think my kids are insane for playing in it. I swear they are blue within a few min.

How far are you from the coast?
Wind power will net you more power per dollar than solar and will work day and night.

You would only need 2 of these if you get good steady winds.
http://www.tlgwindpower.com/customer/kens_tlg500.htm

Keep your eyes open for reconditioned Golf Cart batteries (or recondition them yourself).
You will need a battery bank and a big inverter regardless of source power.

It is about 200 miles for the crow. There is not a lot of wind throughout the day every day. So I think it would not be really cost effective. I am expecting to have to spend at leas 1500 on batteries. The system will only run for about 4 to 5 months out of the year so the batteries and all the equipment will be stored from late fall to mid spring. I see the batteries lasting at least twice as long if it was used throughout the year.

I am not a solar expert but I have seen my fair share of Doomsday Preppers, The Colony and other like shows on this sort of thing. (There are even some neat extreme home makeovers that touch on green/renewable energies.)

I suggest looking into solar lighting, These are basically shiny tubes that allow light into the center of the room with no windows(much like a sky light.) SUPER cheap. You can also look into LED lights that are not wired into a resistor/standard bulb outlet 8 LEDs daisy chained is 12 volts. This is native to the battery system and would give you light without the need for the inverter.

Electric clothes dryer will be a LARGE issue. I suggest a folding cloths rack/ cloths line or to run it off the generator.

Not knowing what your needs also makes things harder. As an example they do make 12v small refrigerators (So you need to run a few at different temps but so what?) Power tools are best in these systems if they use rechargeable batteries vs. a cord.

If you do not have one, check out some solar ovens. These can be done DIY style for dirt cheap. Instead of a microwave maybe a propane/camp fuel camp stove???

FWIW (Yes, I know the stuff is "cheap junk" but) Harbor Freight sells panels, inverters and solar kits REALLY cheap.

If nothing else this may give you some decent starting points. Best of luck off the grid!

Don't cheap out on the charge controller. A good one not only will get the most out of the panels but also will take good care of the battery.

You don't want junk cells in the battery. The same goes for the array. It's only as good as the weakest one. Ideally every cell should be exactly alike. Small mismatches will bring down the overall efficiency. It's not good to buy a few now and then expect to add more later. You most likely will not be able to get the same panels a year from now (maybe not even next month.)

I've looked into lots of options for my cabin, but have focused more on wind because this has got to be the windiest place on earth.

Northern Tool has some pretty inexpensive solar (and wind) kits that are expandable. A very basic kit will run your lights (especially if you go with efficient lighting or even 12v RV lighting). As everyone has mentioned, turning the motor on your dryer may be a little harder, but with a good sized, fully charged battery bank it certainly is doable. On a side note, I run 4-6 12v RV lights and satellite radio in my ice house off a deep-cell marine battery and the thing last nearly all winter without a recharge!

You COULD start off quite cheaply with one of those little kits and just run your lights and an outlet (maybe your tv) and see how you like it. You'd still need the generator but it least it wouldn't be running all the time just to power a couple of bulbs. If you get a kit with decent expandability then you could easily add some more panels and batteries and be set for the greater load.

Unfortunately I can't really recommend any particular brand, as I haven't taken the leap myself. I'm sure a search could turn up some reviews. Good luck!

My only advice based on the stuff I've read in this thread is that HBT is not the place to get info on solar. Sorry.. the collective here is usually pretty good at off topic pointers but I don't think this is one of those topics.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm#Off Grid

Thanks Bobby, this is kinds what i was looking for and every time I goggled it I got the buy this sites. I have noticed that solar does not seem to be the strong point.

Zamial said:

I suggest looking into solar lighting, These are basically shiny tubes that allow light into the center of the room with no windows(much like a sky light.) SUPER cheap.

Click to expand...

Someone sent me a video of this last week:
http://www.wimp.com/lightenup/

hmmm. a battery bank with inverter miight be a better choice for you. just charge up with a small genny. solar has come down allot but its still something along the lines of 2$/kwh.
and your going to need you genny for anything more then lights... and a bettery bank will run lights all day.. 3 hours genny top up everyday. honda makes a really nice small silent genny... we have a soalr set up at our cabin.. but we are constantly starting the gennie


EDIT. its a 4 panel set up with 4 tracter battery's for storage

I think you mean $2/kw not kwh since solar is a capital cost with no time based or usage cost. The big cost with off grid is obviously in the battery bank. Figure $10,000 for the power gen and inverter system @ 4200 watts and then another $4000 for a 200AH bank. To put it in perspective, you can run a couple CFL lamps, a LED flat screen TV, and cable box on say 330 watts or say 3 amps. With a 200 ah bank, it would run for about 60 hours.

If storage for dark/cloudy times is not that big of an issue, you should be able to undersize the collection system but it may have trouble charging the bank while you're taxing it during daylight hours.

It's probably a good idea to overbuy the core components so that you can add panels and batteries to the system if you outgrow it.

Here are a few pics of the system I installed. It was very expensive. It most likely will never pay for it's self. It's a rich man's toy. This could work well for a stand alone system but it only powers a 60A critical load panel when the grid goes down. There is also a transfer switch at the critical load panel for his generator if he's with out the grid and the sun for a extended period. It produces over 11000 kw/h per year.