How to Back Sweeten Wine

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joey210

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Hi, could somebody tell me how we create a sweetness to H.brew red wine, after secondary fermentation..? It seems no matter how long you leave the red wine to ferment, there is a dry taste.. I'm looking for a sweet full bodied flavour... is it possible to freeze it after secondary, return the wine to room temp once frozen and then siphon back into a demijohn with a hell load of sugar?... does yeast completly die from being frozen, or will it start up again?... iam trying not to use any extra chemicals and keep the wine as clean as possible... cheers all:)
 
The only way you guys are gonna get a sweet wine by the methods discussed so far, is to put in enough sugar to get your alcohol levels up to 20% and the yeast will die. This will produce a very "hot" alcohol flavor that will take a long time to mellow out. You need to add sorbates and sulfites to kill the yeast and then backsweeten.
 
Concentrating on just the sweetness aspect, the best method for adding more sweetness is the ones already described using sorbate and sulfites. Freezing of the yeast will achieve 99 percent kill ratio however, fermentation will resume if you add more fermentables.

A concentration of the flavor can be achieved through a concentration of the product either from freezing or by adding a concentrate that you purchased and do not dilute.
 
Thanx for the feedback:) so I guess I'll have to use some form of sulphur to kill the yeast.. its a shame I was looking to make as free from chemical red wine as possible... I may try and leave secondary fermentation on my latest batch for a month or so and rack it a few more times, let the yeast almost die on its own.. after researching until sometimes 6am for the past month, it seems to me H.brew wine can have a lot of flavour if you have time on your hands. If one can sit and take the time to let the wine mature we can reach something close to what were loking for....this brings me to my next question... can somebody please list SG info. As I start to improve I want to get more into the Science of Wine making.. so again with research I have found there is other ways to make a full bodied sweet wine ...I can use a hydrometer to test gravity. This will tell me the SG( starting gravity ) of the sugar content. SG will tell me if I'm on the right track to getting a full bodied,etc wine. Ok at this point I need help, if there is any of you wine Scientist out there please tell me in detail the next steps from here... a list of the different types of wine ( full bodied, dry, sweet, etc ) and the gravity readings needed to keep the wine on the right track for the wine your after.. pheeew, my fingers!!!:) hope that all makes sense.... cheers:)
 
joey210 said:
Thanx for the feedback:) so I guess I'll have to use some form of sulphur to kill the yeast.. its a shame I was looking to make as free from chemical red wine as possible... I may try and leave secondary fermentation on my latest batch for a month or so and rack it a few more times, let the yeast almost die on its own.. after researching until sometimes 6am for the past month, it seems to me H.brew wine can have a lot of flavour if you have time on your hands. If one can sit and take the time to let the wine mature we can reach something close to what were loking for....this brings me to my next question... can somebody please list SG info. As I start to improve I want to get more into the Science of Wine making.. so again with research I have found there is other ways to make a full bodied sweet wine ...I can use a hydrometer to test gravity. This will tell me the SG( starting gravity ) of the sugar content. SG will tell me if I'm on the right track to getting a full bodied,etc wine. Ok at this point I need help, if there is any of you wine Scientist out there please tell me in detail the next steps from here... a list of the different types of wine ( full bodied, dry, sweet, etc ) and the gravity readings needed to keep the wine on the right track for the wine your after.. pheeew, my fingers!!!:) hope that all makes sense.... cheers:)

Full boddied and sweet are two seperate things. Any wine can be made sweet. Full boddied I assume refures to a wine that is rich in flavor and complexity, with a thick mouthfeel. Those things take quality and quantity of fruits.
Sg just gives you abv of the wine if it goes dry. It has very little to do with full bodied wines. And unless you take your yeast to maximun tolerance, starting sg has very little to do with sweet wines.
I can't help with science type stuff. I just make tasty wine:).
 
Full boddied and sweet are two seperate things. Any wine can be made sweet. Full boddied I assume refures to a wine that is rich in flavor and complexity, with a thick mouthfeel. Those things take quality and quantity of fruits.
Sg just gives you abv of the wine if it goes dry. It has very little to do with full bodied wines. And unless you take your yeast to maximun tolerance, starting sg has very little to do with sweet wines.
I can't help with science type stuff. I just make tasty wine:).

Big thanku for the feedback.. as you can tell im new to the H.brew world.. can I please ask how I stay way clear of ending up with a dry red wine? Can't stand dry wines. That's just my taste though. What ever the other end of the spectrum is, in reguards to dry wine, that's the end I'm aiming for...:) cheers
 
"Full bodied" wine can mean both flavor and the actual final gravity of the wine. One of the by-products of the fermentation process is glycerin which contributes greatly to the sense of "fullness". A higher abv wine will have more than a lower one.

Lower oak levels can also increase flavor, but the trade off is a lower level of tannins.
 
joey210 said:
Big thanku for the feedback.. as you can tell im new to the H.brew world.. can I please ask how I stay way clear of ending up with a dry red wine? Can't stand dry wines. That's just my taste though. What ever the other end of the spectrum is, in reguards to dry wine, that's the end I'm aiming for...:) cheers

By dry wines do you refure to the pucker and dry out your mouth wines? Those often have lots of tannin and/or oak in them. I only make fruit wines or wild grape wines. There are wine grapes you want to avoid if you do not want a dry mouth. Maybe someone who knows their grapes will chime in.
Any wine can be made sweet. Ferment to dry, sg under .995. Add sorbate and sulfa to stop yeast growth. Sweeten to taste. Check the sticky notes. There may be one on backsweetning.
 
By dry wines do you refure to the pucker and dry out your mouth wines? Those often have lots of tannin and/or oak in them. I only make fruit wines or wild grape wines. There are wine grapes you want to avoid if you do not want a dry mouth. Maybe someone who knows their grapes will chime in.
Any wine can be made sweet. Ferment to dry, sg under .995. Add sorbate and sulfa to stop yeast growth. Sweeten to taste. Check the sticky notes. There may be one on backsweetning.

Thanks Jensmith. You got it!!... Those dry wines sometimes make me feel like i have an ashtray in my mouth. Could you tell me if adding a Campden tablet( 1 tablet for a gallon) would also halt the yeast? .. I read online that your meant to combine a campden with some other sulphate . But would just a campden work quite well on its own to halt the yeast?
 
joey210 said:
Thanks Jensmith. You got it!!... Those dry wines sometimes make me feel like i have an ashtray in my mouth. Could you tell me if adding a Campden tablet( 1 tablet for a gallon) would also halt the yeast? .. I read online that your meant to combine a campden with some other sulphate . But would just a campden work quite well on its own to halt the yeast?

Campden (sulfa) will not stop yeast. Especially wine yeast. Unless you add so much it is undrinkable. Sorbate should keep yeast from multiplying, preventing new fermantaion. Used together they usualy keep a clear wine still. I have had fermentaion start up with both added per instructions! Make super sure your wine is compleatly clear and as much of the yeast is gone as possible. Lots of aging is best.
To prevent the mouth drying effect do not oak or add lots of tannin. Some grapes contain lots of the mouth drying tannins. Don't use those grapes:) Sweetning will just make them more drinkable, but will not compleatly rid the wine of the mouth drying effect.

What wine are you planning on making, or want to fix?
 
Campden (sulfa) will not stop yeast. Especially wine yeast. Unless you add so much it is undrinkable. Sorbate should keep yeast from multiplying, preventing new fermantaion. Used together they usualy keep a clear wine still. I have had fermentaion start up with both added per instructions! Make super sure your wine is compleatly clear and as much of the yeast is gone as possible. Lots of aging is best.
To prevent the mouth drying effect do not oak or add lots of tannin. Some grapes contain lots of the mouth drying tannins. Don't use those grapes:) Sweetning will just make them more drinkable, but will not compleatly rid the wine of the mouth drying effect.

What wine are you planning on making, or want to fix?

Hiya Jensmith:) again thanx so much, its a real joy to get H.brew advice to keep us begininers going.. I once had the most beautiful bottle of wine whislt traveling in Rome. It was called Cannonau Di Sardegna. I loved it so much I kept the label. ( this was over ten yrs ago) .. I'm not sure if youv heard of it but that is just the flavour I'm aiming for. ( Sorry my understanding of wine isnt the best..Cheers:)
 
Cannonau Di Sardegna is from Sardinia. Cannonau is the Italian name for the Grenache grape, used in rose from France and super popular in Spain as garnacha. If you're looking to make a wine that tastes like cannonau, it would be best to start with Grenache... You can likely get grapes from Spain to do so through some good distributors. I would also recommend doing much much more research and reading, back sweetening red wine from grapes is not a technique I would recommend unless you are seeking a dessert wine.... It's possible you tried a version if cannonau called licoroso (I think that's the name) that is a fortified version if the wine, has added alcohol and sugar and is sort of like a port in that sense.... It's sweeter and usually around 20% ABV...

But I would concentrate on research, yeast selection, brix, ph, acidity, skin contact and maceration, nutrients, temperature, racking and aging... You sort of need to understand these to really control the outcome for your wine, unless you are working with kits.

Yeast selection alone can have a great deal of influence on the outcome.

I suspect you are not seeking sweetness but a fruit forward character. Most red wines are dry, but they are not always tannic or oaky, they can be much more fresh tasting and perhaps that is what you are seeking.

A similar light red wine grape to Grenache is Gamay... The grape used in Beaujolais nouveau... I would pick up a bottle of that for under $10 to try and see if that is the sort of taste you're seeking.
 
Cannonau Di Sardegna is from Sardinia. Cannonau is the Italian name for the Grenache grape, used in rose from France and super popular in Spain as garnacha. If you're looking to make a wine that tastes like cannonau, it would be best to start with Grenache... You can likely get grapes from Spain to do so through some good distributors. I would also recommend doing much much more research and reading, back sweetening red wine from grapes is not a technique I would recommend unless you are seeking a dessert wine.... It's possible you tried a version if cannonau called licoroso (I think that's the name) that is a fortified version if the wine, has added alcohol and sugar and is sort of like a port in that sense.... It's sweeter and usually around 20% ABV...

But I would concentrate on research, yeast selection, brix, ph, acidity, skin contact and maceration, nutrients, temperature, racking and aging... You sort of need to understand these to really control the outcome for your wine, unless you are working with kits.

Yeast selection alone can have a great deal of influence on the outcome.

I suspect you are not seeking sweetness but a fruit forward character. Most red wines are dry, but they are not always tannic or oaky, they can be much more fresh tasting and perhaps that is what you are seeking.

A similar light red wine grape to Grenache is Gamay... The grape used in Beaujolais nouveau... I would pick up a bottle of that for a under $10 to try and see if that is the sort of taste you're seeking.
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What a great post:) thanks alot rawlus.. I will follow your advice. With hours of research put in over this Christmas period, its great to have direct questions answered by ppl in the know:) the net can be quite vague without sites such as this one.. would you have a yeast to recommend to make a wine close to the one mentioned? I find yeast is the platform for which direction one wants to take, but again iam new to the H.brew world:) Cheers guys
 
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What a great post:) thanks alot rawlus.. I will follow your advice. With hours of research put in over this Christmas period, its great to have direct questions answered by ppl in the know:) the net can be quite vague without sites such as this one.. would you have a yeast to recommend to make a wine close to the one mentioned? I find yeast is the platform for which direction one wants to take, but again iam new to the H.brew world:) Cheers guys

Lots of yeast possibilities, suggest you check out the following link from lallemand...
http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar/grenache.php
 
Maybe start with researching lalvin icv-d264
Study up on pitch rates, yeast nutrition, managing SO2 production, temperature and maceration, etc. you will want to keep daily detailed notes during fermentation....
 
Maybe start with researching lalvin icv-d264
Study up on pitch rates, yeast nutrition, managing SO2 production, temperature and maceration, etc. you will want to keep daily detailed notes during fermentation....

Again, what a grand person u are Rawlus. Iam reading your link at the moment,. This is just the info I need to make my first step into the real science of Wine making. .... I must of caught the H.brew Bug, or as my friend says, the HBB:) no doubt ill have some more question soon, if that's cool?....cheers buddy:)
 
Lots of yeast possibilities, suggest you check out the following link from lallemand...
http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar/grenache.php

Ps.. I thought you may like to know that whilst I'm researching to get more understanding, iam in the process of making a simple Blackberry wine. Anyone starting out, who isn't sure about all the extra ingredients needed for H.brew wine should try this simple Blackberry wine recipe. Just type blackberry wine recipe into google and loads will come up.( sorry I don't have a link ).. :)
 
I put sorbate in when FG is .0990 and back sweeten with cane sugar to taste. I have a buddy who adds sorbate before yeast is done FG 1.020 or so to leave some of the original sugar behind. The later results in a lower ABV though. I am going to try different sweeteners this time. Maybe pineapple juice.
 
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