Mac endorsement

NOT wanting a debate, just hoping to share some good info.

Just recently gifted a mac osx laptop.

At first I hated some of the subtle differences....why? We humans are kinda that way, fearing change and all.

Now I am fine with it and like it better in some ways.

A self employed, store front, computer repair guy was in here last week.

A girl asked him if he thought she should get a mac.....He goes on a full on rant about how macs are the work of SATAN himself.

After 5 minutes, I am getting really concerned. What is the hidden menace in my new laptop?

Finally we get it out of him.

THEY DON'T BREAK. (except the occasional mechanical part like the cd drawer) They don't crash. They don't get viruses. They don't need his services...............

That was the most glowing endorsement I could have imagined.

Yesterday my ZEN mp3 player froze up. Up to that it worked fantastically, I couldn't be happier.

As it rebooted itself and said "REBUILDING" with the little progress bar underneath crawling along at a snail's pace, it caused an old familiar feeling and I realized..................

This has PC written all over it.

My life got a lot simpler when I switched to a mac. Still using a PowerBook G4 from 4 years ago and my power horse is an imac.

I use an imac and don't see myself ever switching back to a PC for home use.

They just work.

/agree just get office for mac and your good to go. Now all we need is Beersmith for MAC (which is in progress)

And if you get and use iwork you will avoid Office as well.

EricT said:

/agree just get office for mac and your good to go. Now all we need is Beersmith for MAC (which is in progress)

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BeerAlchemy is a vary good program, give it a shot.

Bopper said:

I use an imac and don't see myself ever switching back to a PC for home use.

They just work.

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Same here. I like that OSX uses much less of the computer's resources (compared to Windows 7) so you are able to upgrade older Macs with the newest OS and it doesn't slow it down to a crawl.

My work computer is a iMAC G5 (vintage 2004-2005). It runs Leopard just as fast as my at home Aluminum iMAC (purchased about a year ago).

Show me a 2004-2005 PC that can run Windows 7 as well as a new PC.

FYI, I tend to hold onto my computers for a long time (before I switched to Mac, I had a same home PC for 8 years).

I've had the same thing with linux only I don't have to pay three times as much for the computer I want.

I've been using macs since the late 80s. I work on both Macs & Windows machines. Would never buy a windows machine for home. I don't want to deal with fixing them when I am off from work.

Been in IT my whole career. Only one rule holds true: ALL computers suck.

My team presently supports a 250+ user community which is 50% win, 40% mac, 10% linux. We're 100% Dell on the win / linux side and run just as many hardware repairs for macs as we do dell. Heck, my last MacBook Air lasted a whopping 20 days before both the fan and sole USB port died.

I do think OSX is a better OS for non-computer savvy as (for now anyway) it's less prone to infection, but Windows 7 has significantly closed the gap.

Don't break, don't crash, don't need repair services...

Sounds like pretty much every windows machine I have ever used. Apple products might be more idiot proof, but that's not much of a selling point if you aren't an idiot.

Given that there is software I have to use (work) and want to use (home) that only runs on Windows, it is a pretty easy choice for me.

remilard said:

Don't break, don't crash, don't need repair services...

Sounds like pretty much every windows machine I have ever used. Apple products might be more idiot proof, but that's not much of a selling point if you aren't an idiot.

Given that there is software I have to use (work) and want to use (home) that only runs on Windows, it is a pretty easy choice for me.

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Wow bitter and in denial.

Sure! Let all us idiots have the fun.

So your PC never needs to be restarted, you never have to hit ctrl alt del and force a program to stop, you don't have to purchase or update virus protection??

Sorry buddy, but you have a freaking MAC.

If any of those problems makes someone an idiot, then everyone is an idiot including YOU.

cheezydemon3 said:

Wow bitter and in denial.

Sure! Let all us idiots have the fun.

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Good job of keeping this away from debate.

FWIW, I know five people who have owned a macbook for three or more years. Every single one of them had their hard drive die suddenly and completely soon after the three year (read: end of warranty) mark.

The Dell laptop I bought five years ago for $450 still works great and has no issues other than needing to replace the keyboard due to excessive gaming (covered under warranty).

In my mind, macs would have to last twice as long to come close to being worth the money because I can buy two PCs for the price of one mac. It's pretty easy to avoid viruses even with Windows if you halfway know what you're doing, so that's a non-issue for me.

Beerrific said:

BeerAlchemy is a vary good program, give it a shot.

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I will, does it require anything special or is it just download and go?

EricT said:

I will, does it require anything special or is it just download and go?

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Download and go. There is a generous free trial and then $20 or so to buy.

The mac I have is at least 5 years old. No problems.

Beerrific said:

Download and go. There is a generous free trial and then $20 or so to buy.

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Gonna download when I get home from work. thanks!

slowbie said:

FWIW, I know five people who have owned a macbook for three or more years. Every single one of them had their hard drive die suddenly and completely soon after the three year (read: end of warranty) mark.

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There was a factory defect on the hard drives of a lot of the early macbooks one generation back (circa 2007). Even if they weren't under warranty, if they had one of these hard drives they should have been able to get it replaced for free.

oh how I love watching the feces get thrown to and fro in Mac/PC threads.

FWIW I switched over to mac about 2-3 years ago and never looked back. my original was stolen from my apartment and it wasn't even a thought in my head to shop for other laptops; I went straight to the apple store.

mac users pay a much higher premium and on the very rare occasion a needed program is PC only boot virtual box (I honestly can't remember the last time I had to boot virtual box.)

windows users hate to admit OSX is a superior OS and love to point out that you can get a comparable computer for 1/2 the price.

linux users say yuck fou to both of us and go about their merry way.

When Macs get popular enough, the viruses will there to support them. It's not the OS that keeps people from writing viruses for them, it's the small user base.

I would love to get a mac. But with not all programs I use supporting them its not really worth it. The price tag is absurd also. For the price of a refurbished imac at 1500, I could buy FOUR brand new PC's. Granted they are a little more trouble with having to fresh install every 2 years but not 1500 of hassle. I think money is the primary issue that stops most.

Also, I've NEVER had a virus or any of that crap. As long as you aren't stupid and click on things you shouldn't, or download random stuff off the internet or limewire (or whatever the newest program is) you shouldn't have a problem. I don't even have antivirus or a firewall.

Agreed Homercidal.

and sorry for taking the bait, the claim that any PC problem is caused by the users lack of IQ was more than I could take, lol.

I was a rabid PC user, who if not for the GIFT (don't ask me how I got so lucky) I would probably be on the other side of this.

*on a funny note, both my mp3 players are PC non Ipods. I had to download software to get my tunes off of itunes. It was free. XNJB*

Couple things came to my mind when I was reading the posts since I last posted.

Viruses are written for Mac not, because it is popular. The good part is you have to put in your password and authorize them to be installed. Unlike PCs.

The cost of a Mac is the same or less than a PC over the course of life. Software for Macs tend to be cheaper along with free tech support. So yes you do pay more upfront and then don't have to keep paying to use your computer when problems come up. Also a new version of iwork or OSX cost less than an upgrade for Office or Windows.

In the end they all cost the same.

Yes Macs are easier for people who are less computer literate. So they are also easier for those who are very computer literate.

I think the debate really comes down to people liking to have to "fix" their computer. And the chance to feel accomplished with you know what to do. With a Mac you don't have to fix common problems. Only hardware when they wear out. HD life if unpredictable no matter what brand you buy.

My powerbook G4 pretended to have the HD die I took it in and they told me it was dead. It had been 3.5 years so I wasn't that upset. I have used Time Machine so I wasn't worried. I bought a new imac and 3 days later, I now call it my Jesus Laptop, I was able to reinstall OSX and it has been working since.

Before I had Dell's yes they worked great, but with each software "upgrade" it became slower and slower. My 5 year old Powerbook is as fast as when I bought it, with the latest software available for it...

Until they allow me to install the MAC OS on any x86 chip/system I want, I will not pay for it. It's unfortunate that Linux isn't as trendy as Mac, people would be all over it with the new leaps and bounds it has made for usability.

If you're getting a Mac because you want to be cool, good for you. If all you're doing is basic work, then sure it's awesome system. But it's like buying a Sony Laptop, you pay a price premium over similar competition. If you plan on doing hardcore gaming avoid it, but the Geforce 9300/9600 that come in most of the mac laptops are adequate for mild-moderate gaming, unless of course you need to dual boot into windows to run it then it defeats the purpose of the Mac.

I tell everyone who asks my opinion, if money isn't crucial then go ahead. But go into the Apple store and type on it, use it do whatever for 20-30 minutes to get a feel for it. If you bring it home not knowing what the hell you're doing or not accustomed to the chiclet keyboard, it's going to suck.

ps. Left something out, backwards compatibility. My cousin can't use her Firewire 400 devices on her new Mac. Or the fact that most of the new OS's won't work on macs with the G series chips. But this is also a good thing because it avoids that Vista "compatible" disaster that happened way back when.

I've had my Mac for 2 years and will never buy a PC again, not even for my kids when they get old enough. I recently had to finish up a presentation for school which sort-of required me to use two computers (made it much easier), and I used my wife's PC. I hated it, and it reminded me why I spent the extra money. At work, we use PC's, but my job requires one, maybe two programs ever, so it doesn't give me a headache having to use those cheap junk-boxes because it's over fast enough

I have saved thousands of songs and photos to my mac and it has not slowed one bit.

ANYTHING I saved on the PC slowed it noticeably.

As someone who has worked in IT for over 10 years and currently for a company that has a large Mac population as well as PC's I can tell you this. There is nothing special about macs, they fail, they slow down, they crash. They are not a magic silver bullet for all computer problems.

Apple has done a very good job of marketing their products. Which has contributed to the allure.

Windows XP was a very solid operating system. I have three PC's in my home that have been running it for 5 years without crashing, slowing down, etc. Windows 7 has been even better so far in my experience.

With that said, I am very OS agnostic, I use Windows, Linux, Unix and MAC OS in my daily job. Each has it's place and function, and I can't say that anyone of them is "better" than the other.

and here is a little food for thought for anyone who thinks they can't get viruses or hacked.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/security-hacker-os-x-windows-7-flash,10205.html

jkarp said:

Been in IT my whole career. Only one rule holds true: ALL computers suck.

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This.

I'm in IT as well and all computers have problems. At home, I have a PC, 2 Mac laptops (one is my girlfriends), and a Linux box. All of them have had problems. The whole notion of "it just works" doesn't apply to any PC, or really any piece of electronics that has a plug for that matter. Every Mac I've worked with has slowed down, had hardware and software problems, and didn't need to do what I needed it to do. Same goes for PC's.

If all you're doing is using a web browser, a mail app, playing with some photos, and doing some word processing, a Mac will look a million bucks. But when all the fancy marketing and fun feeling dies down, you'll have all the problems that a PC user has and still pay more out of pocket. It's all about perception.

livewir said:

and here is a little food for thought for anyone who thinks they can't get viruses or hacked.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/security-hacker-os-x-windows-7-flash,10205.html

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This reminded me of some hacking competitions that I used to keep up on and in catching up with the newer results, I was reminded of an important point. It may be obvious to some of us, but your web browser is likely to be more important than your OS. If you look up the results of the pwn2own contest it becomes very clear very quickly that Safari should be your last choice, and IE really isn't any better. Use Firefox, or better yet, Chrome.

On a related note, I'm sick of Apple trying to shove Safari down my throat every time I update iTunes on my Windows laptop. The price I pay to use my iPod... Maybe I'll get a Zune next time (if they still make them by the time I'm in the market for an mp3 player again) Or better yet, maybe Google will make an mp3 player.

Granted my experience is limited.

I do Music, photos, browsing, accounting, and recipe formulation. MAc is all over a PC with my scope of needs.

livewir said:

As someone who has worked in IT for over 10 years and currently for a company that has a large Mac population as well as PC's I can tell you this. There is nothing special about macs, they fail, they slow down, they crash.

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Sure, all computers will slow down and fail. What you need to keep in mind is the rate at which they slow down and fail. Seems like Mac performance remains stable (speed, fail rate) for a longer period of time.

mitch171 said:

And if you get and use iwork you will avoid Office as well.

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Or you can download OpenOffice for OSX and do most everything you need to do for free.

I am not a PC nor a Mac. I am not a computer. I will not get involved in this debate.

livewir said:

As someone who has worked in IT for over 10 years and currently for a company that has a large Mac population as well as PC's I can tell you this. There is nothing special about macs, they fail, they slow down, they crash. They are not a magic silver bullet for all computer problems.

Apple has done a very good job of marketing their products. Which has contributed to the allure.

Windows XP was a very solid operating system. I have three PC's in my home that have been running it for 5 years without crashing, slowing down, etc. Windows 7 has been even better so far in my experience.

With that said, I am very OS agnostic, I use Windows, Linux, Unix and MAC OS in my daily job. Each has it's place and function, and I can't say that anyone of them is "better" than the other.

and here is a little food for thought for anyone who thinks they can't get viruses or hacked.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/security-hacker-os-x-windows-7-flash,10205.html

Click to expand...

The only real difference I've found as far as the two operating platforms is that Microsoft tends to release their product a bit earlier in the development cycle than Apple does. New MS OS's are a pain the first couple months, but after that, they're fine.


Vista is a perfect example of this, its a terrific OS, and frankly, 7 is just renamed vista with a little facelift, but the launch was so terrible because of all the driver issues and lack of manufacturer support, that everyone still thinks the OS is a mess.

broadbill said:

Sure, all computers will slow down and fail. What you need to keep in mind is the rate at which they slow down and fail. Seems like Mac performance remains stable (speed, fail rate) for a longer period of time.

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As an IT guy, I would strongly disagree.


If we were talking early powerPC based Macs, vs the mess that was windows 98 FE, sure, but its just not true anymore. Computers slowing down, and becoming unstable is almost always a user issue. It is almost always the cast that the user installed some piece of rogue software that is causing the problems.

cheezydemon3 said:

I have saved thousands of songs and photos to my mac and it has not slowed one bit.

ANYTHING I saved on the PC slowed it noticeably.

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Downloading files will not slow a PC unless you're up over 70% of hard drive utilization, and then it will slow down any machine, PC or MAC.

If your computer is slowing down, its because you have installed software that is running constantly.

broadbill said:

Sure, all computers will slow down and fail. What you need to keep in mind is the rate at which they slow down and fail. Seems like Mac performance remains stable (speed, fail rate) for a longer period of time.

Click to expand...

That's actually a bit of an illusion. OS X runs maintenance scripts that keep your computer in good shape as far as speed is concerned. You can do the same thing with PC's except it's not automatic.

Apple does seem to have more reliable hardware when put up against alot of crappy PC brands, but as with anything it WILL fail. I'd take Apple's hardware rather than HP's for instance, but the hard drives (and other parts) for both are going to have very similar lifespans.

Jdecarol said:

Until they allow me to install the MAC OS on any x86 chip/system I want, I will not pay for it. It's unfortunate that Linux isn't as trendy as Mac, people would be all over it with the new leaps and bounds it has made for usability.

If you're getting a Mac because you want to be cool, good for you. If all you're doing is basic work, then sure it's awesome system. But it's like buying a Sony Laptop, you pay a price premium over similar competition. If you plan on doing hardcore gaming avoid it, but the Geforce 9300/9600 that come in most of the mac laptops are adequate for mild-moderate gaming, unless of course you need to dual boot into windows to run it then it defeats the purpose of the Mac.

I tell everyone who asks my opinion, if money isn't crucial then go ahead. But go into the Apple store and type on it, use it do whatever for 20-30 minutes to get a feel for it. If you bring it home not knowing what the hell you're doing or not accustomed to the chiclet keyboard, it's going to suck.

ps. Left something out, backwards compatibility. My cousin can't use her Firewire 400 devices on her new Mac. Or the fact that most of the new OS's won't work on macs with the G series chips. But this is also a good thing because it avoids that Vista "compatible" disaster that happened way back when.

Click to expand...

I play games on a game system. Another reason to buy a Mac is for photo/video editing. This is what I use my computer for. I am running Leopard on a G4 chip the only OS you can't run on the G4 is Snow Leopard which is just a performance upgrade over Leopard. But in the future they are no longer creating new OS for G chip so you are going to be right. I thought is was great that the new OS (Leopard) was able to be installed on the old chipset at all.

Also because of the new chip set you can actually run Windows just like on a PC, you no longer have to run OSX and then run Windows on top of it. So I really think that makes the decision in the end you have two OS running natively so you are in effect buying two computers for a bit over the price of one PC.

Right now with my imac I can boot in Windows XP or OSX, I can run any program on the market with a 27" screen that includes the computer and takes up less space than many monitors. Also I have free tech support any day I need it at the store ~15 min away. I don't see any downside...

I work in IT. I have a slightly different perspective. I design, deploy, and operate large websites (think top 1% of the web). All of us are old school Unix guys (and most of us aren't that old). When OS X came out, I jumped from my Linux laptop to a Mac. Got tired of trying to get X running reliably. I promptly installed emacs and haven't looked back My time is worth allot more than the $ difference in price between a PC an a Mac.

Also, seeing some of the Mac vs PC debates make me chuckle. Some folks may as well be saying moonbeams and bluesmoke make computers work...

I like what you said about your time being worth a lot more than the price difference between Macs and PCs. It's more than just emacs, OSX saves me a ton of time finding files and being ready to do exactly what I want, when I want.

I became a Mac guy a few years ago, and will never go back. But for the people who say they need to run Windows programs - just download Parallels (or another mirroring program), and you can run Windows from a Mac, it only takes about 25 G of your hard drive.