ebay aquarium temp controller build

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
mattd2 said:
My controller arrived yesterday and now I am having to (impatiently) wait 2 more week untill my b'day to open it (had a quick sneak peak just to make sure it was all there and nothing broke in transit ;))
Has anyone wired this inline to an extention cord? I am looking at doing this as it will save on size of the box (no need for a plug socket) and parts (again no need for a plug socket). Come on 2 weeks!
Also does anyone have a good ebay vendor for project boxes?
Click to expand...

I've considered just running a couple of cords out of the box and skipping the outlet in the box. I think this would be a more flexible solution in terms of where the box is located.
 
KirkMN said:
I think it's cycling too often. I'd shoot for having it run a few minutes just once an hour. When the compressor starts, it takes a bit before it starts cooling at its best. Maybe shoot for a 3F band.
Click to expand...

I upped it to a 2 degree farenheit band and its on for about 10 minutes and off for 35-40 min
 
If anyone has a spare of the 'orange adjustable bracket/holder' that goes on the sides of the controller, I'd dearly like to have it. I bought mine, promptly lost one of the brackets and just mounted it on top of an electrical box.

Now I want to enlose it dont have the second bracket. If anyone is willing to part with theirs please send me a PM and we can come to an agreement. Thanks! - N_G
 
mattd2 said:
Has anyone wired this inline to an extention cord? I am looking at doing this as it will save on size of the box (no need for a plug socket) and parts (again no need for a plug socket). Come on 2 weeks!
Also does anyone have a good ebay vendor for project boxes?
Click to expand...

i cut up[ a heavy duty AC extension cord. (12 ga flat cord) and put all the connections inside a cigar box with a barrier strip. works fine.
 
then why do basic extention cords come in 16 gauge wire for running any basic electrical appliance? (not trying to be sarcastic j/w). I just bought a 10 ft 16 gauge cord and hooked it all up minus the controller which im waiting on
 
ekjohns said:
then why do basic extention cords come in 16 gauge wire for running any basic electrical appliance? (not trying to be sarcastic j/w). I just bought a 10 ft 16 gauge cord and hooked it all up minus the controller which im waiting on
Click to expand...

Most basic extension cords I've seen are rated for 13A.
 
All i will plug in would be a mini fridge that pulls 1.5 amp or a small lower heating pad
 
I started thinking last night that the controller has a rating of 10A, so i couldnt safely run anything over 10A withouth putting the controller at risk so a cord rated at 13A running something that is only going to draw a couple amps should be fine correct?
 
a prudent person would put a 9 amp fuse in the box.
(maybe that's how i burned up my first one.)
 
dunnright00 said:
A generous person would write up a tutorial on HOW to put a 9 amp fuse in the box.
:D
Click to expand...

i don't want to sound elitist or anything, but putting an inline fuse inside the box on the power in wire should be self explanatory. the theory of a fuse is that it's a thin wire that is calibrated to get hot and melt if too much current runs through it. (actually i don't know if they make a 9 amp fuse, but probably anything close to that value should be okay.) you can buy fuse holders at radio shack or an auto parts store. (disclaimer apology for snotty sounding comment to follow) if you don't understand installing a fuse, you should not be sticking your fingers into high voltage stuff. get your brother in law or neighbor to help. seriously. best case, you'll just burn something up. . . .
 
sharpstick said:
i don't want to sound elitist or anything, but putting an inline fuse inside the box on the power in wire should be self explanatory. . . . .
Click to expand...

Well, the appeal of this project is the simplicity of it.

I'm not an electrician by any means, but I understand the basic concept, and completing this project was a very satisfying endeavor considering my limited experience.

Putting an inline fuse in seems simple enough, but it's not something I would attempt unless I saw specifically what you were talking about (where does the fuse go? I assume within the main power line?).

My comment was simply, if you are going to do that, take a couple of pics of the process. If you think it's beyond the abilities of "Joe DIY" state that as a disclaimer.
:mug:

Edit: Just noticed that my post-count is now 911.
Emergency!! Emergency!!
:p
 
dunnright00 said:
Well, the appeal of this project is the simplicity of it.

I'm not an electrician by any means, but I understand the basic concept, and completing this project was a very satisfying endeavor considering my limited experience.

Putting an inline fuse in seems simple enough, but it's not something I would attempt unless I saw specifically what you were talking about (where does the fuse go? I assume within the main power line?).

My comment was simply, if you are going to do that, take a couple of pics of the process. If you think it's beyond the abilities of "Joe DIY" state that as a disclaimer.
:mug:

Edit: Just noticed that my post-count is now 911.
Emergency!! Emergency!!
:p
Click to expand...

I think in this case you want it to go to the load. You are protecting the controller from possible damage by a faulty load. Like a shorted compressor, etc...
 
Hermit said:
I think in this case you want it to go to the load. You are protecting the controller from possible damage by a faulty load. Like a shorted compressor, etc...
Click to expand...

the current is the same all along the circuit, from the actual device you are switching up to the main panel. the farther upstream you put the fuse or breaker, the more of the system you are protecting. A GFI breaker would be even better if your device is near water.

the simplest protection would be to plug the whole thing into a power strip. most of them have 15 amp breakers built in to them. 15 is better than the 20 that most modern breakers have. (maybe some have lower amperage breakers?)

A GFI breaker would be even better if your device is near water. they make extension cords with them built in.
i'm too lazy/busy right now to rebuild it and take photos of a fuse installation. but i would just install it in line of the line in power wire (not the neutral) inside the enclosure before it splits to power the controller and supply the relay.
 
Fusing the load is not a bad idea at all and I would fuse the controller too.
If the controller is used in a semi or automatic setup killing all the power because of a load failure is not the best solution or some one has to watch the process.
By not killing all the power, the controller can be used to signal a faulty load by turning on an alarm circuit when the temp is outside the limit and call the brewers attention.
With my setup I never kill the power to the logical part and the system will notify me of any problems without sleeping next to the setup.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
ClaudiusB said:
With my setup I never kill the power to the logical part and the system will notify me of any problems without sleeping next to the setup.
Click to expand...

great idea! (that would have let me know that my cooling relay had died, although i was on vacation at the time!)
so, i would bring the power cord into the enclosure to a barrier strip, split it to to 3 terminals, put a 1 amp fuse or breaker on the small wire to the logic circuit at terminal 1 on the controller and 10 or less amp fuses to feed terminals 6 and/or 8. radio shack has fuse holders that can be panel mounted and soldered, or with wire leads that will fit the screw terminals of the controller and barrier strips.
choose your wire size accordingly to match the load and fuse rating.
 
sharpstick said:
the current is the same all along the circuit, from the actual device you are switching up to the main panel. the farther upstream you put the fuse or breaker, the more of the system you are protecting. A GFI breaker would be even better if your device is near water.

the simplest protection would be to plug the whole thing into a power strip. most of them have 15 amp breakers built in to them. 15 is better than the 20 that most modern breakers have. (maybe some have lower amperage breakers?)

A GFI breaker would be even better if your device is near water. they make extension cords with them built in.
i'm too lazy/busy right now to rebuild it and take photos of a fuse installation. but i would just install it in line of the line in power wire (not the neutral) inside the enclosure before it splits to power the controller and supply the relay.
Click to expand...

Guys, there seems to be a big misunderstanding of how a GFCI works. A GFCI is designed to cut off if it detects a leakage of current, i.e. when you're serving as a ground and thus input current isn't the same as what's being returned. Further, while it probably won't happen with even a standard fridge, large motors and compressors can trip a GFCI when they kick on. This is why GFCIs shouldn't just be installed anywhere. If you really want to incorporate a GFCI in your setup, plug your extension cord into that instead of using one for the box. No matter what, be safe with electricity, especially near water.

Second, a lot of people seem to be very confused/worried about the amperage. Remember (or know now) that a standard circuit in your house works off of a 15A breaker and that with the exception of a few dedicated circuits, you're never using all of that with one device. A full size fridge will not draw half that much current and a mini-fridge is even less. The mini-fridge that I'm using draws a maximum of 3A during compressor kick on and less when running. So, an extension cord rated to at most 10A would be all you would need. The controller itself draws a fairly low current, the only high current items, and by high I mean over 1A, would be the fridge compressor and/or heater you use. For what it's worth, I took my controller apart and the relays are actually rated up to 15A, the 10A rating for the unit is most likely for safety.

For those talking fuses, check out the amperage rating for your fridge, because most likely you can use a 5A fuse in-line from the controller to the compressor. The relays can handle at least 10A, so having the fuse between controller and compressor means your controller won't burn out even if the fuse blows. Having two fuses for the loads lets you know which one is over-drawing and this should be replaced. The controller draws and returns straight from the mains, and has its own protection, so there's no need for a fuse just for the controller.

Hopefully this clears up some confusion.
 
floccus said:
, I took my controller apart and the relays are actually rated up to 15A, the 10A rating for the unit is most likely for safety.
Click to expand...

really? I'm suprised there's a saftey factor built in. That's good to know because I'd like to run a heater off of one and I don't feel like modifiying the heating element to reduce the current draw.

Thanks for the info.
 
Bjornbrewer said:
really? I'm suprised there's a saftey factor built in. That's good to know because I'd like to run a heater off of one and I don't feel like modifiying the heating element to reduce the current draw.

Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend trying to draw more than 10A. Just because the relays in my unit are capable of handling 15A doesn't mean your unit uses the same components. Also, if your heater is drawing 10+A, you'll probably have an issue because unless you run off an isolated circuit, odds are that the total amperage will exceed 15A and trip your breaker. And what kind of monster heater are you using that draws more than 10A and why? If you're talking a heating element for a brew kettle then I'd seriously look for a different controller that switches an external relay. If not, then I have questions about your intentions...
 
floccus said:
I wouldn't recommend trying to draw more than 10A. Just because the relays in my unit are capable of handling 15A doesn't mean your unit uses the same components. Also, if your heater is drawing 10+A, you'll probably have an issue because unless you run off an isolated circuit, odds are that the total amperage will exceed 15A and trip your breaker. And what kind of monster heater are you using that draws more than 10A and why? If you're talking a heating element for a brew kettle then I'd seriously look for a different controller that switches an external relay.
Click to expand...

i think most modern residential(and commercial for that matter) buildings in the USA have 20 amp breakers as standard, but that's no reason to push them to the limit, especially if it is not a dedicated circuit (with nothing else plugged into it).
if you do want to run more than the rated 10 amps, i agree, but you can just use this (cheap) controller to actuate a separate larger relay. this would allow you to safely switch any higher amperage or current devices, like a big ass water heater element if you really need it.
according to the diagram, it looks like the relay contacts are isolated from the controller circuit so you could probably switch other types of circuits with the contacts, eg. 12VDC, 220VAC, but it would be simplest to use a 120VAC relay to switch those other types of power. just make sure the contact ratings are adequate.
 
Ok, little change of topic, but two kind of stupid questions:

1) For those of you who are using this device to control a mini-fridge, how exactly are you running the temp sensor and the heating circuit (whatever you're using to heat) into the fridge? Are you just running it/them through the front door, are you drilling a small hole somewhere, or something else?

2) Just to be clear - I'm planning on using a lightbulb and a muffin fan (i.e. DC) on the heating circuit. I'm thinking that the best (or the easiest, at least) way to do this would just be to wire an outlet somewhere into the heating circuit, then plug a cell-phone charger into that. Then I'd wire the cell-phone charger directly to the fan. So the heating circuit would basically be a light socket and an outlet. Seems like this'd be the least troublesome way to do it - am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for the advice!
 
my controller box is on top of the full size fridge. the sensor wire just goes through the door and is suspended with some bailing wire from the top, about a foot down from the ceiling, inside of a plastic cup with a plastic bag tied around it to keep transient drafts from affecting the reading.
i don't have a heating device, but would just run an extension cord also under the door gasket to plug in a small light bulb and fan. (it might be a good idea to mount the bulb inside a sheet metal cylinder to keep light from affecting the brew.)
 
sharpstick said:
i think most modern residential(and commercial for that matter) buildings in the USA have 20 amp breakers as standard,
Click to expand...

Nope, 15 amps, at least in "builder" homes in my area, which I think uses UBC building codes. (3 different code standards are used in different parts of the country, so YMMV.) 15 amp circuits allows one to use smaller gauge wire, which is easier to work with, so it saves time and money for the builder. I always had to run my heftier power tools on the one and only 20 amp circuit in the garage, 'cause the rest were all 15.

Throwing a fuse on the output would, perhaps, save the relay in the device, but I didn't bother. The controller is cheap.

When I built mine, (putting it in a proper enclosure and using the proper sized wiring, etc.), one thing I saw as a potential safety issue was if the inside wiring somehow shorted to the line hot (black). I generally like designs that do a better job of separating high and low voltage connections. One just has to be careful to not strip too much insulation off the wires that go into the block to decrease the possibility of a short.

There is a CE mark on this thing, I noticed, in case anyone is interested. That may be one reason the relay is rated to 15 amps. The other may be for surge. Not that I'd suggest anyone hook it up to more than what the controller is rated for.
 
floccus said:
I wouldn't recommend trying to draw more than 10A. Just because the relays in my unit are capable of handling 15A doesn't mean your unit uses the same components. Also, if your heater is drawing 10+A, you'll probably have an issue because unless you run off an isolated circuit, odds are that the total amperage will exceed 15A and trip your breaker. And what kind of monster heater are you using that draws more than 10A and why? If you're talking a heating element for a brew kettle then I'd seriously look for a different controller that switches an external relay. If not, then I have questions about your intentions...
Click to expand...

true...I should probably check mine.

A standard 1500W heater draws 12.5A...it's not a monster. It's for a fermentation chamber...a little big I know, but it'll just cycle less. The other option (which I'll probably opt for) is modifying the heating element so only the high resistance portion turns on. (the differnece between the low heat and high heat setting that is)
 
Bjornbrewer said:
true...I should probably check mine.

A standard 1500W heater draws 12.5A...it's not a monster. It's for a fermentation chamber...a little big I know, but it'll just cycle less.
Click to expand...

An oversized/overpowered heater will cycle more, the duty cycle (% on time) will be less. Ideally you want heating/cooling sized appropriately to minimize cycling while allowing for peak load capacity. Less cycling will give more consistent temps and less startup wear on motors and relays. Just trying to clarify basic engineering principals for future readers/reference.

Cliff
 
cwi said:
An oversized/overpowered heater will cycle more, the duty cycle (% on time) will be less. Ideally you want heating/cooling sized appropriately to minimize cycling while allowing for peak load capacity. Less cycling will give more consistent temps and less startup wear on motors and relays. Just trying to clarify basic engineering principals for future readers/reference.

Cliff
Click to expand...

if it's bigger it will run less. cycle time would be about the same. didn't mean to get into a hair splitting contest.
 
Palefire said:
Ok, little change of topic, but two kind of stupid questions:

1) For those of you who are using this device to control a mini-fridge, how exactly are you running the temp sensor and the heating circuit (whatever you're using to heat) into the fridge? Are you just running it/them through the front door, are you drilling a small hole somewhere, or something else?

2) Just to be clear - I'm planning on using a lightbulb and a muffin fan (i.e. DC) on the heating circuit. I'm thinking that the best (or the easiest, at least) way to do this would just be to wire an outlet somewhere into the heating circuit, then plug a cell-phone charger into that. Then I'd wire the cell-phone charger directly to the fan. So the heating circuit would basically be a light socket and an outlet. Seems like this'd be the least troublesome way to do it - am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for the advice!
Click to expand...

1) Temp Sensor, Fan cord right into the fridge - just shut the door on it

2) I think i understand what you're saying here. If so you could use an extension cord. Or the poster right above had 2 sets of outlets instead of breaking the tab on one
 
One socket is for cooling and one is for heating. The second outlet is to put a muffin fan to circulate air. Getting the 2 socket outlet was cheaping than buying the single socket circular ones. Otherwise I would have just got three of them. $5 vs $2. Easy choice for this type of project. Plus I have an extra socket for whatever...
 
Bjornbrewer said:
if it's bigger it will run less. cycle time would be about the same. didn't mean to get into a hair splitting contest.
Click to expand...

Not trying to split hairs either, just trying to convey the engineering decisions that go into designing a system. Many non-engineer forum members benefit from the information.

It is hard to say, without knowing the specific parameters, how close the number of cycles per day would be between a larger and a smaller heat input. The number of cycles for the smaller heat source would certainly, however, be fewer than the larger heat source. This is according to the principal that as the size of heat source more closely matches the heat loss of the system, the cycles per unit time (hour, day, year, or infinity) would approach 1. Recovery (from opening the cabinet or adding thermal mass below desired temp), and ability to cope with increased heat loss (drop in external temperature) would be extremely insufficient/abysmal.

The benefit of an over-sized heat input is usually limited to reduced system recovery time due to changes in conditions- drop in external temp, door openings, new cold mass additions. It appears that it would be worse in achieving the main goal of fermentation temperature control- stable temperatures. More cycles means more temp overshoots. Controlling temp overshoot/hysteresis could be problematic even with a PID.

The main benefit of your over-sized heat input is that you already have it sitting around, so you don't have to purchase/locate another one.

Cliff
 

Similar threads

B
eBIAB PID Controller Wiring Diagram - Feedback Requested
Replies
14
Views
1K
beerisambrosia
B
W
Power distro
Replies
1
Views
311
whoaru99
W
kotamoore23
120/240v DIY PID Controller Help
Replies
17
Views
1K
whoaru99
W
L
Building a potentiometer controller
Replies
25
Views
1K
doug293cz
doug293cz
A
BrewPiLess esp32 Build
Replies
4
Views
494
DuncB
D
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top