Slow starting wyeast?

I'm using wyeast ringwood ale 1187. I made the mistake of not getting it started soon enough before brewing and I pitched it before it expanded. It did expand a little, but not much. Now ~26 hours in the primary, and it's not yet showing any signs of fermentation. No airlock bubbling, no krausen (though there was a little a few hours ago. Very little), no nothing. It's not quite as warm as I'm used to it being during fermentation either. Should I be concerned?

See the first sticky thread in the forum... then RDWHAHB.

What was the date on the yeast and at what temp do you have your vessel? Shouldn't be overly concerned as it will probably take off soon anyways but if if the yeast was old it may take longer as there are less viable cells to work with and if it's too cold you may need to warm it up a bit

SPLASTiK said:

See the first sticky thread in the forum... then RDWHAHB.

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If I had a HB to drink, I would be. Sadly, I drank the last few the other night. It feels... wrong.

duboman said:

What was the date on the yeast and at what temp do you have your vessel? Shouldn't be overly concerned as it will probably take off soon anyways but if if the yeast was old it may take longer as there are less viable cells to work with and if it's too cold you may need to warm it up a bit

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I believe that the date on the yeast was 12APR18. I don't have the package anymore though . Not sure on the temp; I've got it in my glass carboy wrapped in a heavy winter coat. It's slightly warmer than room temperature, though. It's been about 36 hours since I pitched it, showing no signs. There is definitely plenty of sugars in there for it to eat up.

I had one take 68 hours to take off. I wouldnt take action til 72 hours had passed.

How well was it aerated? That could be a problem too

wfowlks said:

How well was it aerated? That could be a problem too

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Well, we poured it from the stock pot into a funnel in the carboy, then added the rest of the water the same way. It should be aerated nicely.

Quyzi said:

Well, we poured it from the stock pot into a funnel in the carboy, then added the rest of the water the same way. It should be aerated nicely.

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Not sure if this means anything, but the fermenter appears to have negative pressure. It's sucking the airlock water up slowly. I've replaced it with vodka for now. I also took a tiny sample (half a shot glass) and tasted it. Didn't taste any alcohol, or very little. I didn't have enough to get a gravity reading. It's been ~27 hours since pitching now.

Wyeast packs don't need to swell at all, but they do recommend letting them swell at least 1/2 inch just to guarantee the yeast is still healthy before pitching. If you got some swelling then all should be good. That brings up another question though... I wonder if the swelling time is also about getting the yeast to room temperature before pitching so you don't shock them with a sudden temp change? Anyway, I would roll with what all the experience here suggests and just wait the 72 hours before taking further action. And if you're current yeast doesn't take off you've learned a valuable lesson that you can pass on to the next "my yeast won't start" thread.

I just had a Belgian wit that took 48hrs to show any signs. Now I have krassen all over the place. Just wait it out a bit. I also shook the fermenter and that seemed to help it along.

My fermenter is probably around 70*F, perhaps a bit cooler. Should I put a "small animal heater" under it to warm it up a bit? I've been shaking it every once in a while to stir up the trub thinking there may be some yeast suffocating underneath a layer of particulate that I could rescue. I'm not going to go as far as repitching yet, nor giving up. I'm going to wait it out until at least Thursday before I take action. If it does come down to that, should I go with another package of the same yeast, or would it be better to pitch dry yeast?

Don't warm it up. You probably don't want to ferment any hotter then it already is.

FWIW I did the same thing when I brewed up a brown ale with Wyeast 1099 a few weeks ago. I smacked it right before I got my boil going, and pitched almost an hour and a half later. It almost took 3 days to show any signs of it fermenting, but if you were sanitary everything should come out great. I know mine did. Wait it out and you should be fine.

Next time make a starter for liquid yeast. I do that for every beer and typically have active fermentation in under 12 hours.

I'll second making a starter! I made my first one out of Wyeast 1056 for my last batch and it started fermenting about 4-5 hours after pitching. First time I brewed that batch, I didn't make a starter and it took about 2 - 2 1/2 days to show any signs of fermenting.

The easiest way I've seen to go about it this: 24 hrs. before I plan to brew I boil 1/2 cup light DME in 4 cups of water for 15 minutes. Cool it down to pitching temps, pour the wort into a sanitary jar (growler works great for me), pitch the yeast, cover with foil and shake it every time I walk past it or think about it. When it comes time to brew you can just dump the whole thing in there. I also figured that even if a 1L starter could technically be under pitching (depending on the OG and what beer you're brewing) it's better then not having a starter at all. They're easy enough to make and they eliminate that lag time you're seeing.

Here's a link to a great pictorial on how to make a starter. Only thing I do different is to boil the whole 1L volume (about 4 cups) of water before I pitch so I can avoid having to top off anything. More sanitary in my eyes. Good luck though. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

Klickmania said:

I'll second making a starter! I made my first one out of Wyeast 1056 for my last batch and it started fermenting about 4-5 hours after pitching. First time I brewed that batch, I didn't make a starter and it took about 2 - 2 1/2 days to show any signs of fermenting.

The easiest way I've seen to go about it this: 24 hrs. before I plan to brew I boil 1/2 cup light DME in 4 cups of water for 15 minutes. Cool it down to pitching temps, pour the wort into a sanitary jar (growler works great for me), pitch the yeast, cover with foil and shake it every time I walk past it or think about it. When it comes time to brew you can just dump the whole thing in there. I also figured that even if a 1L starter could technically be under pitching (depending on the OG and what beer you're brewing) it's better then not having a starter at all. They're easy enough to make and they eliminate that lag time you're seeing.

Here's a link to a great pictorial on how to make a starter. Only thing I do different is to boil the whole 1L volume (about 4 cups) of water before I pitch so I can avoid having to top off anything. More sanitary in my eyes. Good luck though. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-76101/

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I'll definitely make a starter next time. If my recipe calls for 3 pounds of DME, would using a cup of it for the starter affect the final product? Or should I purchase extra dme specifically for a starter?

i've had yeast take 4-5 days before. last one had me worried, but i just let it roll and finally the krausen came and left. just relax

Quyzi said:

I'll definitely make a starter next time. If my recipe calls for 3 pounds of DME, would using a cup of it for the starter affect the final product? Or should I purchase extra dme specifically for a starter?

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I use the 100G DME to 1L water ratio for my starters. I also use BeerSmith and the Mr. Malty site to figure out the starter size. Since I have (and use) a stirplate for mine I can make smaller starters and still get the cell count. Typically I make my starter 2-3 daya ahead. That way it gets 24 houra to complete and then goes into the fridge to cold crash for about 24 houra to compact. I then decant the spent starter and make a slurry (I leave a small amount of the spent starter in the flask) of the yeast that then gets pitched into the batch. I use a foam stopper in the flask to promote best gas exchange while remaining safe. I cover that with sanitized foil when it goes into the fridge.

IMO a stirplate is a huge help when it comes to making a starter.

A whole cup seems a little much unless you're planning on stepping it up to a 2L starter. I would get extra extract if I were you. I picked up extra for the pale ale I'm more then likely brewing later this week so I wouldn't have to worry about it. If you're concerned, you don't have to decant the wort off the yeast bed of your starter. You can just pitch the whole thing in and put all that wort back into your brew. Don't really know if it ups the OG any, but it can't hurt.

Like Golddiggie said, a stirplate is really useful for starters, but at the same token it's not necessary. I don't have one yet, and the starter I made worked just fine. Way better then pitching just the smack pack though.

While it's true a stirplate isn't necessary it does make things damned easier. For one thing (as I already mentioned) you can make smaller starters. For anther, the starters are done MUCH faster. Under 24 hours typically. With the smaller, faster, starter you can then chill for a day and get the yeast to flocculate down to a nice cake in the flask. I leave just a little of the spent starter in the flask so that I can get the cake into a slurry form. Otherwise it would be much harder to get out of the flask. If you just leave the flask out, it will settle some, but not nearly as much as when you 'cold crash' it... You can even do this for a few days to get as much yeast as possible to settle out. Although I've found that simply 20-24 hours is plenty of time.

For example... If I get yeast with a very recent date (last week) and have a batch that will be 6.75 gallons going into primary (typical for me), with an OG of 1.067 (my brown ale coming up) and I want to use just one smack pack of yeast. With the occasional shake/stir/swirl method, I'll need to make a starter almost 3.5L in size. Changing to using a stirplate and that drops to 2.25L in size. So, I can use my 3L flask on the stirplate, getting a correct size starter made. Not using a stirplate, I'll need to use either a 4L (which I don't have) or my 5L flask, which won't fit in my fridge.

You can either make a stirplate (I've not managed to do that well enough yet) or just buy one already put together. I have one from Hanna (190M) that does a good job with my 2L and 3L flasks. I am looking to get one that will easily handle 5L flasks/starters though. I expect to need that once I've moved and start brewing larger batches (9-12 gallons out of primary).

Rivenin said:

i've had yeast take 4-5 days before. last one had me worried, but i just let it roll and finally the krausen came and left. just relax

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This is easier said than done...

I will have to remember this though down the road as I was freaking out a bit when my second brew took almost 14 hours to start bubbling! :cross:

This was after my first batch started fermenting within 2 hours of course. My 3rd batch took almost as long as my 2nd batch so I wasn't quite as worried.

I will just refer myself to this thread and the sticky thread on this topic when I have fermentation take over 24 hours or so. It's just so damn hard to wait seeing NO action...

Well, sure enough it did indeed start doing something. It's bubbling rather slowly, but it is bubbling. I woke up this morning to the beautiful sound of my airlock bubbling. This made me very happy. I opened the winter coat I've got the fermenter cuddled in, and found a thin layer of krausen floating on the top.

Unfortunately, now I am worried. In the nice brown krausen are a few little white fuzzy lumps. Very small, maybe 3mm, but they're there.

Quyzi said:

Well, sure enough it did indeed start doing something. It's bubbling rather slowly, but it is bubbling. I woke up this morning to the beautiful sound of my airlock bubbling. This made me very happy. I opened the winter coat I've got the fermenter cuddled in, and found a thin layer of krausen floating on the top.

Unfortunately, now I am worried. In the nice brown krausen are a few little white fuzzy lumps. Very small, maybe 3mm, but they're there.

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Totally normal, just leave the beer alone, the yeast know how to make beer and don't need your help so just close the thing up and forget about for a couple weeks then check gravity

duboman said:

Totally normal, just leave the beer alone, the yeast know how to make beer and don't need your help so just close the thing up and forget about for a couple weeks then check gravity

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That is exactly what I intend to do. It is difficult to resist looking at it. Makes me happy

Quyzi said:

Not sure if this means anything, but the fermenter appears to have negative pressure. It's sucking the airlock water up slowly. I've replaced it with vodka for now. I also took a tiny sample (half a shot glass) and tasted it. Didn't taste any alcohol, or very little. I didn't have enough to get a gravity reading. It's been ~27 hours since pitching now.

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Glad to hear all is well. I don't think anyone answered you about the negative pressure, also known as suck-back. When you drop the temperature of your fermenter before it is actively fermenting you get exactly what you saw, that is lower pressure inside so it sucks air, and whatever liquid you have in it, through your airlock until the temp/pressure equalizes. What you can do is get an S-type airlock which allows air to pass both ways without sucking the liquid out of it, or you can do what I do, just put on the sanitized airlock without any liquid in it then add the liquid once temps are equal and signs of fermentation are present.

Next time I wouldn't start taking samples only 27 hours after pitching your yeast. There's nothing to gain from that but there is a small risk of exposing it to potential infection, even if that risk is relatively low.

brewit2it said:

Glad to hear all is well. I don't think anyone answered you about the negative pressure, also known as suck-back. When you drop the temperature of your fermenter before it is actively fermenting you get exactly what you saw, that is lower pressure inside so it sucks air, and whatever liquid you have in it, through your airlock until the temp/pressure equalizes. What you can do is get an S-type airlock which allows air to pass both ways without sucking the liquid out of it, or you can do what I do, just put on the sanitized airlock without any liquid in it then add the liquid once temps are equal and signs of fermentation are present.

Next time I wouldn't start taking samples only 27 hours after pitching your yeast. There's nothing to gain from that but there is a small risk of exposing it to potential infection, even if that risk is relatively low.

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The sample I took was not even worthy of calling a sample. I just wanted to taste it to see if there was a taste of alcohol. I do see your point of exposing it to infection, though. I really hope those fuzzy white things aren't a sign of infection. This should be a damn tasty brew.