Things I don't like about iBrewMaster

True it used to be a decent computer program set you back 50-60 bucks at least. Now people ***** about an app every time it's more then 99cents.

Two more things I don't like about iBrewmaster:

1. Small text: I am 41 and reading tiny text on the iPhone screen is difficult. This app needs a text size option. It squeezes too much info on the screen. It is difficult to read my recipe on brew day.

2. The app doesn't correct for temperature on hydrometer readings. I had to use Brewpal for that.

Special Hops said:

True it used to be a decent computer program set you back 50-60 bucks at least. Now people ***** about an app every time it's more then 99cents.

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It seems like a lot to ask for 10-15 twice for the same program. I'd pay 10-15 once if I got it on both devices. However IF the price was only a buck I'd pay it twice without blinking.

As someone VERY new to the home brew experience, I bought the iBrewMaster app for my iPad to help me. At first I thought the UI was a bit busy and confusing to use so I spent an hour or so reading the "help" document. I still find the Mash Profile section confusing, but I think it is because I'm new to home brewing and I believe the app assumes the user has at least a better than average working knowledge of AG mash steps. I've learned MUCH more about sparge styles, mash steps, etc. by reading other brewers' posts.

I am a bit nervous leaving my iPad around my work area while I'm brewing for fear of spillage so I try to write my notes the old-fashioned way and then enter them into the app later.

The app does crash on me more often than I like, fortunately I haven't lost any critical information. Since I've never used the BrewSmith software, I can't compare the two products, but I may download the trial version and give it a shot.

I was contacted by Joe at iBrewmaster about this thread to day.

One of my rants was about the price. Joe defended the price primarily by noting that the app is very well supported with continuous free upgrades. According to Joe the app has been out for 3 years and he has never charged for upgrades. I can attest that the app is very well supported. Joe is responsive and the app continues to improve.

All my other gripes were related to either feature requests desired organization changes. Many of these will come in time with Joe's continued stellar support.

So.... It rocks?

No. It doesn't rock. But it also doesn't suck.

I just wanted to point out the developer does put a lot of time and effort into the app and promised to correct some the items I pointed out in my original review. There is something to be said for that responsiveness.

He Rocks!

I have both iBrewMaster and Beersmith. Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the two programs? I find that if I enter the exact same recipe into both programs, I get different results. I understand that there will be slight differences in IBU's and SRM, however those two values are usually very very close, it's the OG that is usually off, often by about 4-5 gravity points. I've gone through and checked the equipment profiles for both programs and made sure they matched, and double checked the gravity contribution of the ingredients, along with any other settings that should create differences.

Each time I find that Beersmith requires less grain to get to the same OG. If no one else has experienced this, maybe I need to check again, but I thought I'd at least pose the question.

HopRodGR said:

I have both iBrewMaster and Beersmith. Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the two programs? I find that if I enter the exact same recipe into both programs, I get different results. I understand that there will be slight differences in IBU's and SRM, however those two values are usually very very close, it's the OG that is usually off, often by about 4-5 gravity points. I've gone through and checked the equipment profiles for both programs and made sure they matched, and double checked the gravity contribution of the ingredients, along with any other settings that should create differences.

Each time I find that Beersmith requires less grain to get to the same OG. If no one else has experienced this, maybe I need to check again, but I thought I'd at least pose the question.

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For the same recipes I get the same OG prediction from iBrewmaster, BrewPal, and my personal excel spreadsheet (uses equations from Palmer's How to Brew). I don't have Beersmith. For a long time my OG was different between programs. It turned out to be my batch size. Doh!

One value I get different in iBrewmaster is the boil size. iBrewmaster says 7.03 gallons, Brewpal says 6.79. I think iBrewmaster reports the boil size for water at 212F and Brewpal reports boil size for water at 75F.

I also get slight differences in IBU's for Tinseth. I think that is related to OG averaging and the "maximum utilization value parameter" which Tinseth uses 4.15 but "suggests fiddling with 4.15 if necessary to match your system". Source http://realbeer.com/hops/research.html. I have tried changing the 4.15 value in my personal spreadsheet but can't match iBrewmaster's IBU numbers for my life.

I also get slight differences in SRM. I have never worried about that.

To simplify this to the greatest extent possible, I doubled checked my equipment profiles again in both Beersmith and iBrewMaster, which are the same. Just as an example, I entered one grain and one hop to see what would happen. I chose:

10lb Briess 2-Row Brewers Malt, Potential SG of 1.037, 1.8L
1oz Centennial 10% AA at 60 minutes
5.5 gallon batch, 75% efficiency

For comparison:
SRM: nearly equal, only 0.2 difference, so not material
IBU: nearly equal, only 0.9 difference using Tinseth, again, not material
Pre-Boil volume: equal, 7.25 for both
Estimated Original Gravity: Beersmith = 1.050, iBrewMaster = 1.046

Minor difference like 0.2 SRM and 1 IBU are really undetectable, so no big deal there. But the differences in OG from the same single grain is hard to figure out. Just for the hell of it I also punched this into BrewPal and got 1.050, 3.0SRM and 31 IBU.

Beersmith has always done me well so I always use it for my final recipes. I like iBrewMaster just to throw down a recipe when I'm not at my computer, but the difference in OG is really keeping me from using it to put together a final recipe, as I always adjust it in Beersmith before brewing. It's a nice program with some good features, but definitely, in my mind at least, far from a single solution if you are going to choose one piece of brewing software.

HopRodGR said:

To simplify this to the greatest extent possible, I doubled checked my equipment profiles again in both Beersmith and iBrewMaster, which are the same. Just as an example, I entered one grain and one hop to see what would happen. I chose:

10lb Briess 2-Row Brewers Malt, Potential SG of 1.037, 1.8L
1oz Centennial 10% AA at 60 minutes
5.5 gallon batch, 75% efficiency

For comparison:
SRM: nearly equal, only 0.2 difference, so not material
IBU: nearly equal, only 0.9 difference using Tinseth, again, not material
Pre-Boil volume: equal, 7.25 for both
Estimated Original Gravity: Beersmith = 1.050, iBrewMaster = 1.046

Minor difference like 0.2 SRM and 1 IBU are really undetectable, so no big deal there. But the differences in OG from the same single grain is hard to figure out. Just for the hell of it I also punched this into BrewPal and got 1.050, 3.0SRM and 31 IBU.

Beersmith has always done me well so I always use it for my final recipes. I like iBrewMaster just to throw down a recipe when I'm not at my computer, but the difference in OG is really keeping me from using it to put together a final recipe, as I always adjust it in Beersmith before brewing. It's a nice program with some good features, but definitely, in my mind at least, far from a single solution if you are going to choose one piece of brewing software.

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I got OG 1.050 with iBrewmaster with those ingredients. See below.

kehaar said:

I got OG 1.050 with iBrewmaster with those ingredients. See below.



View attachment 60663

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Very interesting. Only thing I can see that is different is the pre-boil volume. Mine is 7.25, but that includes a 0.50 gallon kettle trub loss, 1.00 gallon boil-off, and 0.25% cooling shrinkage to get to 5.50 gallons into the fermenter.

Somehow I can see this heading in the direction of me inputting something wrong, but I honestly can find what that is at the moment...

HopRodGR said:

Very interesting. Only thing I can see that is different is the pre-boil volume. Mine is 7.25, but that includes a 0.50 gallon kettle trub loss, 1.00 gallon boil-off, and 0.25% cooling shrinkage to get to 5.50 gallons into the fermenter.

Somehow I can see this heading in the direction of me inputting something wrong, but I honestly can find what that is at the moment...

Click to expand...

I get the same when I add the boil loss and kettle trub loss you have.

The lower OG is because the software assumes that you had 6 gallons of wort post boil then you left 0.5 gallons in the kettle taking only 5.5 gallons to the fermenter. So the OG prediction is based on the 6 gallon value because that is the volume which had the sugars evenly diluted in it. You have tole the software you are throwing away 0.5 gallons withs it's share of sugars. Hence the lower OG.

I set kettle trub loss at 0 because I pour everything from the kettle into my fermenter.

kehaar said:

I get the same when I add the boil loss and kettle trub loss you have.

The lower OG is because the software assumes that you had 6 gallons of wort post boil then you left 0.5 gallons in the kettle taking only 5.5 gallons to the fermenter. So the OG prediction is based on the 6 gallon value because that is the volume which had the sugars evenly diluted in it. You have tole the software you are throwing away 0.5 gallons withs it's share of sugars. Hence the lower OG.

I set kettle trub loss at 0 because I pour everything from the kettle into my fermenter.

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After playing with both software packages for the last half hour, my head now hurts. As an extreme example, I bumped up trub loss to 1.99 (the max) on both Beersmith and iBrewMaster. Beersmith says OG stays the same, 1.050, which can't be right if you are leaving that much wort behind. iBrewMaster dropped to 1.037, which seems right, since you are now using 10lbs of grain to get fermentable sugars into about 8.8 gallons of wort pre-boil, of which 1 gallon boils off and 2 are left behind. If you have trub loss, that wort post boil better be the OG you want going into your fermenter, so it now seems like the Beersmith calc is off. I can't get comfortable saying that though, since you have me (relatively new brewer) vs. Brad (writer of highly respected and widely used brewing software). Well, if someone can point out where I'm wrong here, please feel free to do so.

HopRodGR said:

After playing with both software packages for the last half hour, my head now hurts. As an extreme example, I bumped up trub loss to 1.99 (the max) on both Beersmith and iBrewMaster. Beersmith says OG stays the same, 1.050, which can't be right if you are leaving that much wort behind. iBrewMaster dropped to 1.037, which seems right, since you are now using 10lbs of grain to get fermentable sugars into about 8.8 gallons of wort pre-boil, of which 1 gallon boils off and 2 are left behind. If you have trub loss, that wort post boil better be the OG you want going into your fermenter, so it now seems like the Beersmith calc is off. I can't get comfortable saying that though, since you have me (relatively new brewer) vs. Brad (writer of highly respected and widely used brewing software). Well, if someone can point out where I'm wrong here, please feel free to do so.

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Ok, after a bit of digging, it appears this might be the issue I'm having with Beersmith. Looks like I'm not the only one who's experiencing this.

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,4911.msg26898.html#msg26898

HopRodGR said:

Ok, after a bit of digging, it appears this might be the issue I'm having with Beersmith. Looks like I'm not the only one who's experiencing this.

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,4911.msg26898.html#msg26898

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Here are some examples that may help or may confuse. I think batch size is intended as the volume of stuff in the fermenter (rather than the volume of beer that makes it into bottles or kegs). I think trub loss the the volume left in the kettle when whirlpooling.

Recipe
10# Briess 2-Row, 75% efficiency
Intent: 5.5 gallons in kettle before transfer to fermenter.

1) 5.5 gallon batch in which I pour all contents of kettle into fermenter.
batch size = 5.5 gallons
trub loss = 0
OG = 1.050

Since I poured the trub into the fermenter I don't really have 5.5 gallons of beer. In my case I usually have about 0.3 gallons of trub on the bottom of the carboy and about 5.2 gallons of beer. But, I think a share sugars are in that trub (at least the equations assume so).

2) Whirlpooling
batch size = 5.2 gallons
trub loss = 0.3 gallons
OG = 1.050

You have to reduce the batch size if you increase the trub loss. batch size + trub loss is the total volume in the kettle right before transferring to the fermenter.

3) Incorrect whirlpool setting
batch size = 5.5 gallons
trub loss = 0.3 gallons
OG = 1.048

This setting says you want 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and are leaving 0.3 gallons in the kettle. This makes volume, V(post boil) below, used in in OG calculations 5.8 gallons effectively diluting the sugars.

The equation from Palmer to go from preboil SG to post boil SG is:

SG(post boil) = SG(preboil)*V(preboil) / V(post boil)

In all the cases above the V(post boil) is the batch size + trub loss.

I think iBrewmaster and BrewPal OG prediction is correct with these settings.

Hey guys!
I thought iBrewMaster should officially chime in here! Yes! It is because of the Kettle Trub Loss. It seems as though some other software has never taken this into consideration and many users tend to immediately believe that iBrewMaster is wrong because of their years of experience with those other apps! :-D But Kehaar hit the nail on the head! Your gravity isn't diluted just by the wort that you remove from the kettle of course, but is diluted by the entire kettle volume including what you left behind! We receive a lot of Q's in regard to this, and have an entry in our FAQ's about it, but here's a detailed description of the issue that explains the calculations and the math behind them...no secrets there!! I hope it helps!

FAQ: Why did the OG calculations change in my recipes? They don't appear to be correct compared to other applications out there!

Answer: We corrected a minor bug with the OG calculations as we were originally calculating OG by not including the Kettle Trub Loss. Obviously, whatever is left in the Kettle has still diluted the fermentable sugars. So, if you had a recipe size of 5.00 gallons, but a Kettle Trub Loss of .25 gallons, we were only using the 5 gallons instead of 5.25. You can adjust what your Kettle Trub Loss is by changing it in the Setup → Mash / Eq Profiles, then use that profile for your recipe. So, if you dump the entire kettle into your primary, you would want it set to 0. (This should bring your calculations back to the original values you used to see.)

For the curious…here’s the formula:

currentGrainGravity = (grainAmount * ((grainSG – 1) * 1000) * (Efficiency / 100)) / (recipeSize + defaultKettleLoss)

For each grain, you take the amount (in lbs) and multiply it by the number of gravity points for that grain, or SG. (The * 1000 is because a gravity of 1.037 would yield .037 after subtracting the 1, and we need to convert that to 37.) Then you multiply that by the efficiency. You need to divide that by the recipeSize including the Kettle Loss. So here’s an example:

2 lbs of a 1.037 gravity grain, efficiency of 70% and with a recipeSize of 5.00 gallons and a Kettle Loss of .25 gallons

currentGrainGravity = (2 * ((1.037 – 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (5.00 + .25)

currentGrainGravity = (2 * (.037 * 1000) * .7) / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = (2 * 37 * .7) / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = 51.8 / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = 9.866

Now, let’s look at it from a practical standpoint. If you get 37 gravity points per lb of grain per gallon of water, then 2 lbs would give us 74 points. However, we only have an efficiency of 70%, so you get 51.8 gravity points. But that’s per gallon….if you have 5.25 gallons of wort in your kettle before you transfer 5 gallons to your primary, you need to divide the 51.8 gravity points by the entire 5.25 gallons, not 5 gallons as we ourselves were also originally doing. Therefore, you end up with 51.8 / 5.25 or 9.866 gravity point contribution from this one grain. Do this for every grain you have, and add em up.

The bottom line is that while iBrewMaster may have been showing you accurate OG calculations for your setup (assuming you don’t have any Kettle Trub Loss), they were incorrect for those users who do have a Kettle Trub Loss. So all you have to do to correct it is to set your Kettle Trub Loss to 0 for the Mash / Eq Profile that you use for your recipe if you have none.

Cheers all!

iBrewMaster said:

Hey guys!
I thought iBrewMaster should officially chime in here! Yes! It is because of the Kettle Trub Loss. It seems as though some other software has never taken this into consideration and many users tend to immediately believe that iBrewMaster is wrong because of their years of experience with those other apps! :-D But Kehaar hit the nail on the head! Your gravity isn't diluted just by the wort that you remove from the kettle of course, but is diluted by the entire kettle volume including what you left behind! We receive a lot of Q's in regard to this, and have an entry in our FAQ's about it, but here's a detailed description of the issue that explains the calculations and the math behind them...no secrets there!! I hope it helps!

FAQ: Why did the OG calculations change in my recipes? They don't appear to be correct compared to other applications out there!

Answer: We corrected a minor bug with the OG calculations as we were originally calculating OG by not including the Kettle Trub Loss. Obviously, whatever is left in the Kettle has still diluted the fermentable sugars. So, if you had a recipe size of 5.00 gallons, but a Kettle Trub Loss of .25 gallons, we were only using the 5 gallons instead of 5.25. You can adjust what your Kettle Trub Loss is by changing it in the Setup → Mash / Eq Profiles, then use that profile for your recipe. So, if you dump the entire kettle into your primary, you would want it set to 0. (This should bring your calculations back to the original values you used to see.)

For the curious…here’s the formula:

currentGrainGravity = (grainAmount * ((grainSG – 1) * 1000) * (Efficiency / 100)) / (recipeSize + defaultKettleLoss)

For each grain, you take the amount (in lbs) and multiply it by the number of gravity points for that grain, or SG. (The * 1000 is because a gravity of 1.037 would yield .037 after subtracting the 1, and we need to convert that to 37.) Then you multiply that by the efficiency. You need to divide that by the recipeSize including the Kettle Loss. So here’s an example:

2 lbs of a 1.037 gravity grain, efficiency of 70% and with a recipeSize of 5.00 gallons and a Kettle Loss of .25 gallons

currentGrainGravity = (2 * ((1.037 – 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (5.00 + .25)

currentGrainGravity = (2 * (.037 * 1000) * .7) / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = (2 * 37 * .7) / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = 51.8 / 5.25

currentGrainGravity = 9.866

Now, let’s look at it from a practical standpoint. If you get 37 gravity points per lb of grain per gallon of water, then 2 lbs would give us 74 points. However, we only have an efficiency of 70%, so you get 51.8 gravity points. But that’s per gallon….if you have 5.25 gallons of wort in your kettle before you transfer 5 gallons to your primary, you need to divide the 51.8 gravity points by the entire 5.25 gallons, not 5 gallons as we ourselves were also originally doing. Therefore, you end up with 51.8 / 5.25 or 9.866 gravity point contribution from this one grain. Do this for every grain you have, and add em up.

The bottom line is that while iBrewMaster may have been showing you accurate OG calculations for your setup (assuming you don’t have any Kettle Trub Loss), they were incorrect for those users who do have a Kettle Trub Loss. So all you have to do to correct it is to set your Kettle Trub Loss to 0 for the Mash / Eq Profile that you use for your recipe if you have none.

Cheers all!

Click to expand...

I came to this exact same conclusion late last night right before making my last post. iBrewMaster has it right, so my apologies for doubting the accuracy . Once I incorporated the Beersmith workaround, everything matched up between recipes.

I guess this is where I eat crow and retract part of my previous statement. I think you really could use just iBrewMaster for recipe creation. I like the timers and the temperature calcs for mashing appear to be accurate. I honestly use the app more than any other software I own, but haven't been using it on brew day. That may very well change. Just the fact that you were willing to reply at length and the fact that there are new updates regularly speaks highly in my mind.

While we have you in the thread, is there any plans to incorporate changes in attenuation with the yeast you choose based upon the mash temperature you select? I think that would be a nice addition instead of having to manually set it each time.

No worries HopRod! We actively try to monitor forums and respond to user requests, feature updates, and appreciate constructive criticism. It's the only way to understand what users need and want, and we take iBrewMaster very seriously. I can't begin to tell you the features we have planned! It's just a matter of time and prioritizing them. Speaking of that...one of our top priorities is to expand on the yeast options. We're simply too thin there right now....we'll be putting in some yeast pitching calculators and allowing multiple yeast additions. I'm a bit thrown on tying it to the mash temperature, as the mashing would have taken place before the boil....I assume you meant the Primary temp!? That's a great idea to automatically populate it based on the primary temperature and still allow users to override it. In addition, we're investigating the effects of attenuation when using multiple strains. We're honestly not sure if the attenuation should be an average of the different yeast attenuations, or if it should be the highest. There's also no real way to know which yeast began propagation first or which is dominant. We've actually reached out to some of the yeast companies for some direction here!

In either case, thanks for the reply! Lots more planned!

Cheers!
Joe

iBrewMaster said:

No worries HopRod! We actively try to monitor forums and respond to user requests, feature updates, and appreciate constructive criticism. It's the only way to understand what users need and want, and we take iBrewMaster very seriously. I can't begin to tell you the features we have planned! It's just a matter of time and prioritizing them. Speaking of that...one of our top priorities is to expand on the yeast options. We're simply too thin there right now....we'll be putting in some yeast pitching calculators and allowing multiple yeast additions. I'm a bit thrown on tying it to the mash temperature, as the mashing would have taken place before the boil....I assume you meant the Primary temp!? That's a great idea to automatically populate it based on the primary temperature and still allow users to override it. In addition, we're investigating the effects of attenuation when using multiple strains. We're honestly not sure if the attenuation should be an average of the different yeast attenuations, or if it should be the highest. There's also no real way to know which yeast began propagation first or which is dominant. We've actually reached out to some of the yeast companies for some direction here!

In either case, thanks for the reply! Lots more planned!

Cheers!
Joe

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For attenuation he means there is more attenuation with mash temp of 150F than for mash temp 158F. The lower mash temps convert more starches to sugars which leads to higher attenuation because the yeast can convert the extra sugars to alcohol. The higher mash temps leave more starches which mean lower attenuation.

I have never seen any formulas which mathematically quantify this. Maybe a good PHD dissertation topic for a iBrewmaster intern

Ah yes! I see your point regarding more / less fermentable sugars! I tend to enjoy more full bodied beers and base my mashing temps on this (depending on the style of course) to get more unfermentable sugars. But I agree...I've never seen any published formulas on this either....same as my Q regarding which attenuation to use when using multiple yeasts! Siebel Institute of Technology here I come! :-D

iBrewMaster said:

Ah yes! I see your point regarding more / less fermentable sugars! I tend to enjoy more full bodied beers and base my mashing temps on this (depending on the style of course) to get more unfermentable sugars. But I agree...I've never seen any published formulas on this either....same as my Q regarding which attenuation to use when using multiple yeasts! Siebel Institute of Technology here I come! :-D

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was getting at, fermentability based on mash temperature. I can't say I know of a scientific way to quantify this, other than using the manufacturers specs for a range of attenuation, then maybe using a scale that starts at the high end of the range when you mash at 148, and goes down to the low end when you mash at 158. This would obviously be adjustable, as I've hit way higher attenuation than the manufacturers say for a number of yeasts.

Either way I have no doubt there are some good updates to come. I've only owned the app for a few months and I've already seen a lot of improvements.

I also find the formula for SG & OG to be way off..... the trub loss fix does not play a factor into the error IMHO....

I think the math is off, and honestly, if I was designing the recipe inside IBM rather than re-entering it from BeerSmith I would miss my gravities and also through off my IBU's too...

I have also tried my recipies in BrewMate (www.brewmate.net) and the gravities match BeerSmith. This also tends to validate the errors with IBM

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

iBrewMaster said:

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

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Love to supply exports. If you can show me what I'm am doing wrong I would not feel like I wasted 15 bucks! How do I export the recipe to you?

iBrewMaster said:

Hey CBelli,
We respectfully disagree of course! We've had it challenged many times but it has always come down to user settings and not understanding their effects on the calculations. If you can provide actual details rather than just sightng other programs, we'd be glad to explain. If you've actually found an error, then we certainly want to fix it ASAP, so please feel free to send us the details and exports!

Cheers!
iBrewMaster, Inc.

Click to expand...

I would love it if you could tell me what I'm doing wrong. I feel like I wasted 15 bucks. How do I export?

Hey CBelli. Ok, I'm not much of a user guide reader myself...who is? But I have to say that we get at least a half dozen e-mails a day as well as reviews stating things like:
"Why don't you support BeerXML?"
"Can you add an import / export function?"
"Do you support Metric?"
"You need to add a way for users to add their own ingredients."
"Can you add timers to the app?"
"I'd like a way to scale recipes."
etc.

iBrewMaster does ALL of these things, plus a great deal more! So, while the user guide is being updated to include newer features such as the Inventory module, there really is a lot of useful information in it! We truly mean no disrespect, but you may want to read it before you feel like you wasted 15 bucks. We really urge people to spend some time poking around the Setup menu option because it's packed with features. This is where you go to export recipes in either BeerXML format or iBrewMaster XML format. We had to create our own XML format to support features that BeerXML doesn't....like unlimited fermentation steps. (BeerXML only supports 3, as well as many other limitations.)

While we're on it, in the setup you can add any of your own Grains, Hops, Yeasts, Additions, Mash Steps, Carbonation Steps, Fermentation Steps, Grain Types, Grain Origins, Hop Types, Hop Forms, Hop Uses, Hop Origins, Yeast Types, Yeast Forms, Yeast Labs, Yeast Flocculations, Addition Types, Mash / Eq Profiles, etc., etc. You can also edit the on-hand inventory of Grains, Hops, Yeasts, and Additions there, or directly from any recipe by tapping an ingredient, or from any batch by tapping an ingredient. You can also backup your entire iBrewMaster database with Dropbox for safekeeping, or to transfer it to another iPhone or iPad. You can also go to the Defaults and change your default Boil and Batch Sizes, set which Auto Calculate Settings you want, your default Mash / Eq Profile, Efficiency, grain and hop units (g, kgs if using metric, oz, lbs if using U.S.), your default IBU calculation method (Daniels, Rager, Tinseth), U.S. or Metric settings for Water Volume, Temperature, Grains, and Hops independently), your date format (MM/DD/YYYY or DD/MM/YYYY), color format (SRM or EBC), notifications (being notified 1 or 2 days ahead of each fermentation action step and at what time...Apple requires that you setup your i-device to allow notifications from an app in the device system setup under notifications.), and whether or not you want to use the Inventory Module so that your O/H Qty's show up in Green if you have the entire required amount of an ingredient, Yellow if you only have some, or Red if you have none.

So, while we know this may go well beyond your original post, we wanted to take a brief moment to address some other postings, reviews, and e-mails. But, let's get to the bottom of the calculations and getting us an export. Go to the Setup and select "Export iBrewMaster Recipes". Tap the "Personal" button on top to filter out your recipes and then hit the circle to the left of the one you want to send us. Tap "Export" in the upper right hand corner. You'll be given a choice to export it as Plain Text or as a File Attachment. Select File Attachment and it will bring up an e-mail page. Enter our support address, and shoot it to us. However, in addition, we need to know all the settings for the Mash / Eq Profile you have selected for the recipe....including:

Grain Temp
Grain Absorption
Mash Tun Volume Loss
Mash Tun Temp Loss
Hourly Boiloff
Cooling Shrinkage
Kettle Trub Loss

It's usually the Kettle Trub Loss that causes the most confusion, but we'll explain that after we receive your recipe. We'll be glad to break it down and see what's going on.

We just received an e-mail of your recipe, but that's not an export....if you can send an export, then we can load it in and do some testing.....

Cheers!

Hey CBelli,
We received your export. For the sake of other users, we'll summarize:


Ok, here's the breakdown from the recipe you sent us.

10.00 lbs of Pilsner (2 Row) Ger with an SG of 1.037
1.50 lbs of Vienna Malt with an SG of 1.036
1.00 lbs of Munich Malt with an SG of 1.037
0.50 lbs of Candi Sugar, Amber with an SG of 1.036


For each grain, you calculate the gravity contribution as follows:

grainGraivty = (grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)

You have a batch size of 6.00 gallons and we're assuming a Kettle Trub Loss of 0.0 gallons. So, let's check the math!

For the 10.00 lbs of Pilsner (2 Row) Ger with an SG of 1.037:

(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(10 * ((1.037 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(10 * 37 * .70) / 6.00
259 / 6.00
43.17 gravity points

To explain, again, you get a potential of 37 gravity points per lb, per gallon of water. But you're efficiency is only 70%, so you really only extract 70% of that. 37 gravity points * 10 lbs divided by 6.00 gallons would be a potential of 61.66 gravity points, but you only get 70% of that, or 43.17. Math checks out there…let's keep going for each grain….



(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(1.50 * ((1.036 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(1.50 * 36 * .70) / 6.00
37.8 / 6.00
6.30 gravity points


(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(1.00 * ((1.037 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(1.00 * 37 * .70) / 6.00
25.9 / 6.00
4.32 gravity points


(grainAmount * ((grainSG - 1) * 1000) * (efficiency / 100)) / (batchSize + kettleTrubLoss)
(0.50 * ((1.036 - 1) * 1000) * (70 / 100)) / (6.00 + 0.00)
(0.50 * 36 * .70) / 6.00
12.6 / 6.00
2.10 gravity points


If we add up all the gravity points:

43.17 + 6.30 + 4.32 + 2.10 = 55.89

That equals an OG of 1.05589. Your recipe shows 1.056, which is 1.05589 rounded!

So, again…we've done this at least 2 dozen times for doubting users! Perhaps other apps have been off all along! :-D

Cheers!

I have yet to successfully export any files but I did send an email to make you aware. There still seems to be a number of moderately significant bugs on the android version but being fair you do seem to be actively be working on stamping them out. Several were corrected in the most recent patch. Part of me wonders if issues with 2.2.x is the core issue but shrug.

Hey Accidic,
Yes, we did have some initial issues with the Android version but have put out 6 updates since it's initial release and will continue to until all the little bugs are weeded out. After that, we'll be looking to add a lot more additional features that the iOS versions enjoy. We take the apps extremely serious, appreciate user feedback, constructive criticism and active participation in reporting bugs and suggesting new features. That's really the only way we can truly fix problems and address users needs, so please feel free to post suggestions on our site under Support & Feedback. This is where users can suggest new features and other users can vote on them so that we can prioritize new enhancements.

Cheers!

iBrewMaster said:

Hey CBelli,
We received your export. For the sake of other users, we'll summarize:


That equals an OG of 1.05589. Your recipe shows 1.056, which is 1.05589 rounded!

So, again…we've done this at least 2 dozen times for doubting users! Perhaps other apps have been off all along! :-D

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I went back and created a new test batch with 12lbs of 2row only -- no hops or yeast to compare software... and IBM matches all my other software on that!! I understand that you tweaked the trub loss numbers and I uploaded an update a couple days ago, this "TEST" recipe was the first new one I entered since....
My question is... does the update change the numbers for previous recipes?? That would explain a lot...

I also want to publicly say that IBM certainly calculates gravity correctly in this new recipe... I just wish I could figure out the reason my other recipes don't match?

Hey CBelli,
Well, that depends....if you change anything with your default Mash / Eq Profile settings, iBrewMaster will recalculate the data for those that are set to Auto Calculate. So, if you have over-rode one of the fields with a manually entry, then it wouldn't.

In either case, we're glad to see we're matching up for you! Our first and foremost priority is a stable, bug-free and accurate app, so we're always glad to hash it out and look at the details to ensure that!

Cheers!

I want bludgeoning you re: the issues with it. I see most working themselves out (i need to send another email but haven't had the time). The short list is I'm still having issues with some entries showing up in ml regardless of measure and I've noticed since one of the patches I can't select a style anymore. Seems as if the export/import was fixed this mornings patch tho.

I have waited a few months for IBM updates before I made my final decision....
I stopped using IBM, actually never really started.... not only did I have a hard time matching gravity with previous software but the fact that it was not capable of calculating sparge water, rendered it completely useless.... How can any all grain brewer, other than BIAB, use brewing software that will not calculate sparge water???

How can this be left out of any brewing software?
Especially the most expensive one?

I did contact customer support (months ago) and received a quick reply of a multi step workaround that was more confusing than it needed to be.

I guess I'll stick with beersmith, although the ipad app is far from useful at least the main software is best in class

*** ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT ***

I'm reviving this thread, because I just got an Android phone and was wondering if this app has improved at all. This thread and the reviews of the app on the Google store pretty much say that the iOS version was great, but the Android version is terrible.

The last post on this thread was almost a year ago, and the most recent reviews I saw were near that same time frame.

Did they continue to fix bugs and do updates? Are the calculations really actually wrong?

Or is this whole fiasco due to fans of Apple products hating Android devices and there were never any actual problems with the app?

I'm a poor grad student, so I don't want to spend $10 on the app, if it is going to end up sucking.

Sherpa FE said:

Almost entirely the way it is for me, I don't use BeerSmith anymore, I carry around my iPad, and use ibrewmaster.
It's not that we are not as experienced or don't know what we're missing. I like having the inventory, the ability to design a recipe at a friends house, and email a recipe when I'm not at my computer.
I actually hate the new BeerSmith 2.0, the screen is almost too busy! There are some nice things about BeerSmith, but for me, they do to out weigh the perks of ibrewmaster for me.
I also like the fact that when I email the developer, which I have done several time, the average response time is less than 3 hours, and not a canned response like some grain mill manufacturers, but an actual answer.

Click to expand...

I liked this app, until I started having issues with OG/FG readings like -223346557876. I have contacted these people and all I get is "I'll get it to the developer" I have sent them recipes and batches and it has been SIX WEEKS waiting for a response . This has drastically changed my opinion of this app to crap. If you are not going to support something, then just say so.

I use iBrewMaster2 and it works well for me. I have not used any other apps, so I don't have anything to compare it too though. There a few things about it that I don't like but they are pretty minor.

1. I do BIAB and getting the strike water volume/temperature calculation is two-step process. It does not spit out the total volume and water temperature you need automatically based on your mash profile and batch size. To figure out the total water you need, you have to enter a known water quantity in your mash step (I use 10 qts for simplicity). Once you do that and save, iBrewMaster2 will show you how much "sparge" water you need. Adding the two together gives you your total volume needed for BIAB. You then have to go back to the mash step and enter to correct volume to get the water temp calculation. It's not obvious at first and would be nice if I didn't have to go through the extra steps. One time I forgot to do the second step and accidentally heated my strike water much higher than it should have been. I only realized what had happened once I doughed in and saw that my mash temp was too high.
   
2. The batch log sucks. It's accessed via a dog-ear graphic on the bottom right corner of the batch summary, which is not obvious. Furthermore, each entry you add only shows up on 1 line. Totally useless in my opinion. At first I was really disappointed about this but I started using Evernote for keeping my batch notes and far prefer it instead. There is only so much typing I can do on my phone and I probably would not keep as good of notes on it.
   
3. It only calculates efficiency ones you've entered the FG of a batch. I wish it had the ability to calculate my efficiency after I finish mashing. That information would be much more useful to me. It's not terrible b/c my pre-boil OG will tell me if I'm where I need to be for the recipe but I would still be nice to know as I am brewing. I wish it tracked and allowed you to enter your pre-boil OG along with your pre-boil volume.

That said, I'm pretty satisfied with iBrewMaster2 and those issues are not big enough to cause me to switch to another app. One thing I do like about iBrewMaster2 is that it is maintained on regular basis, much more so than the BeerSmith mobile app and to certain extent the Brewer's Friend app. That's a big selling point for me b/c I can have greater confidence in regular improvements and updates.