how big of a stater will i need?

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joe22

joe22

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I am stepping up my brewing to 30 or35 gal at one time, how big of a start will i need and can i do it all with one activator pack? or is there a better way than an activator pack? Also what difference would there be with a lower gravity and a higher gravity beer?
 
so dose and one have and good and not to expensive of how to prep that much or more for a higher gravity beer.
 
joe22 said:
so dose and one have and good and not to expensive of how to prep that much or more for a higher gravity beer.
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jetmac said:
wtf??!!
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I think Joe has already drank half of his 30 gallon batch in one sitting ;)
I am guessing that was meant to read;
joe22 said:
so does anyone have any good and not too expensive methods of how to prepare that much starter wort, or more for a higher gravity beer.
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ya that is not what i posted, i said dose any one have a good idea what it would take to make a starter that size .i e flask or stir plate or some thing cheep. and that last post made me sound waaaaasssstttted!
 
joe22 said:
ya that is not what i posted, i said dose any one have a good idea what it would take to make a starter that size .i e flask or stir plate or some thing cheep. and that last post made me sound waaaaasssstttted!
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damn spell check messing with what you want to say ;)
 
jetmac said:
Mr Malty Yeast Calculator says for a 35 gal 1.048 OG beer. You need a 10.58L starter with 3 smack packs on a stir plate. For a higher gravity beer you need a larger volume of starter wort
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Based on the above info I would brew up a 5g batch (a Pale Ale in my case) and re-use that yeast, either washed or re-pitched, and call that my starter. Depending on your planned OG you could either use it all or use half (assuming your OG is 1.050ish) and save half for your next batch :mug:
 
matpat said:
based on the above info i would brew up a 5g batch (a pale ale in my case) and re-use that yeast, either washed or re-pitched, and call that my starter. Depending on your planned og you could either use it all or use half (assuming your og is 1.050ish) and save half for your next batch :mug:
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+1
 
What equipment do you have to propagate yeast? The most important thing to take away from Mr. Malty is you need to pitch more yeast than you think. What ever your system limit is, you should try to maximize it. Regardless of what MM says, you will not know your actual yeast count. It's just an estimate.
 
matpat said:
Based on the above info I would brew up a 5g batch (a Pale Ale in my case) and re-use that yeast, either washed or re-pitched, and call that my starter. Depending on your planned OG you could either use it all or use half (assuming your OG is 1.050ish) and save half for your next batch :mug:
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+1. Brew any 5 gallon 1.040-1.050 beer, and use the cake from that batch. Think of it as a really big starter.
 
It seems odd that someone who is going to set up a home brewery to make 30 gallon batches wouldn't know how to step up a starter. Or, where to find that info. :drunk:
 
i have never made a yeast start, it its the next step that i am trying to learn but at the same time 10 gal batches don't last tell i get a chance to brew again so i am stepping that up . i have seen the video's on you tube. but nothing on what kind of equipment i would need to make a start for 30 gal or if there was any other steps to making a start that big. I also don't think i will want to brew a 5 gal batch with one kind of yeast just so i can make 30 more later, are there any other options ?
 
joe22 said:
i have never made a yeast start, it its the next step that i am trying to learn but at the same time 10 gal batches don't last tell i get a chance to brew again so i am stepping that up . i have seen the video's on you tube. but nothing on what kind of equipment i would need to make a start for 30 gal or if there was any other steps to making a start that big. I also don't think i will want to brew a 5 gal batch with one kind of yeast just so i can make 30 more later, are there any other options ?
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Not without spending $50-$100+ on yeast...

You really haven't been using starters for 10g batches? How many vials/packs jar you been pitching?
 
scottland said:
...Think of it as a really big starter.
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That you can drink!

Also check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/primo-stir-plate-made-easy-237794/
The stir plate this guys made can get a vortex going in a carboy!

Those were probably not helpful to you,
So my $0.02 on solutions to your problem, I see you have really only 2 options:
Spend $$$ per batch for enough vials/smackpak/dry yeast to directly pitch,
or spend $$ brewing 5 gallon batches as starters.

If you wash the yeast instead of dumping the 30 gallons straight on top you might be able to use the 5 gallon batches to test out new recipes without commiting 30 gallons to something that you might not like.
Or make just extract batches for your "starters", super simple and easy.
 
+1 to test batches and using a 5 gallon batch as a starter. Or use dry yeast. I prefer liquid just because of the larger amount of strains available. But I do use a boatload of Danstar Munich dry. Washed. That's right, I wash dry yeast because I can, not because I'm cheap.
 
Our brew club has done quite a few 40 gallon batches and rarely have we ever pitched more than a 5L yeast starter and we have made some fine beers. I think all that calculation stuff is taken a little too seriously sometimes.
 
Poobah58 said:
Our brew club has done quite a few 40 gallon batches and rarely have we ever pitched more than a 5L yeast starter and we have made some fine beers. I think all that calculation stuff is taken a little too seriously sometimes.
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You would think nobody ever made beer before Mr Malty.

Just do the best your system can provide.
 
o4_srt said:
Not without spending $50-$100+ on yeast...

You really haven't been using starters for 10g batches? How many vials/packs jar you been pitching?
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i have just been buying smack pack's i and all my beers are under 1.050 , thats also why i would like to start making yeast starts .
 
gwren said:
You would think nobody ever made beer before Mr Malty.

Just do the best your system can provide.
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Well I think beer can be made with a minimum amount of yeast but to brew the best beer you can, it is helpful to pitch a proper amount of yeast. The proper amount of yeast has been calculated by people smarter than me and Mr Malty yeast calculator just simplifies the calculation.
 
In my opinion the easiest and cheapest way would be to repitch your yeast. From the next 10 gal batch you make, properly save and store the yeast from that. Decant and repitch that into a 20 gal batch. Then again into a 35gal batch.

You may find good info from this podcast
 
joe22 said:
i have just been buying smack pack's i and all my beers are under 1.050 , thats also why i would like to start making yeast starts .
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I expect a dramatic improvement in your beers if/when you pitch the proper amount.

You're currently pitching about 1/4 the amount of yeast that you should be pitching.

With 10 gallons at 1.050, you need 3.6 smack packs or a 3 liter starter.

For 30 gallons at 1.050, you need 11 smack packs or a 15 liter starter.

Fwiw, 11 smack packs would cost around $80 from my lhbs.

A 15 liter starter would be about $10.

Underpitching negatively impacts head retention, in a blind trial, the properly pitched beer was preferred 2:1 by standard home-brewers. The underpitched beer was described as bitter, astringent and solventy.

Additionally, underpitching can cause excess ester formation.
 
If you want to keep it really simple, just get 6 to 10 packets of danstar nottingham yeast and rehydrate before pitching.
 
so i do not have to brew as often. right now 10 gal last a month
 
heres what i would do... mr malty wants you to culture 1 trillion cells... get yourself two smack packs and pitch one into a 2 liter starter... then take that and pitch that into a 4 liter starter... take that and pitch it into a 5 gallon starter along with the second yeast pack. try to get all at the same temp... no need for hops here, all starters... so only need to boil for like 15min per starter. chill, DECANT!, and pitch into your primary. good luck.
 
ok i am going to run this buy you guys. mr. malty says i can make 404 billion cells with a stir plate and 1 smack pack in a 3.8L start, witch is what is in 4.2 smack packs. also by a two stage propagation, I could decant that and then take a 5.15 liter start split between two 5L flasks on stir plate's to make a grand total of 1010 billion yest cells. Decant that and pitch that in to my 30 gallons of beer. dose any one see any holes in my theory?
 
joe22 said:
ok i am going to run this buy you guys. mr. malty says i can make 404 billion cells with a stir plate and 1 smack pack in a 3.8L start, witch is what is in 4.2 smack packs. also by a two stage propagation, I could decant that and then take a 5.15 liter start split between two 5L flasks on stir plate's to make a grand total of 1010 billion yest cells. Decant that and pitch that in to my 30 gallons of beer. dose any one see any holes in my theory?
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i say you calculate your needs based on about 3.5billion cells/ml... so you will need about 375-400ml of a pretty thick slurry... i still think you should start this with a 2 liter starter and pitch that into 5 gallons and see what you end up with. using two packs... if you end up with more slurry that you need, save it for the next batch!

i have made a couple of high gravity dunkels and pitch a 2l starter into 6l and my fermentation takes off quite well without over attenuation.
 
This question may appear to be straying OT, but it is a corollary to this thread. Given the rates of pitching for X amount of beer, and since yeast suppliers (Wyeast, White, Danstar, Safale) are presumably tailoring what they sell for 5 gallon batches, since sources of information like Mr. Malty state that very often this much yeast is inadequate, why don't the yeast producers either put more in a package or be more adamant in their recommendations that more be used?

NB: I am not questioning the science behind correct pitching rates, etc. I merely find this situation somewhat anomalous. And, yes, I understand perfectly well that one may just buy multiple units of a given yeast.
 
rico567 said:
This question may appear to be straying OT, but it is a corollary to this thread. Given the rates of pitching for X amount of beer, and since yeast suppliers (Wyeast, White, Danstar, Safale) are presumably tailoring what they sell for 5 gallon batches, since sources of information like Mr. Malty state that very often this much yeast is inadequate, why don't the yeast producers either put more in a package or be more adamant in their recommendations that more be used?

NB: I am not questioning the science behind correct pitching rates, etc. I merely find this situation somewhat anomalous. And, yes, I understand perfectly well that one may just buy multiple units of a given yeast.
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True. If(according to Mr Malty who has worked with both major yeast companies)the simplest beer a 5.25 gal 1.048 ale, requires 1.8 vials or smack packs, why don't Wyeast and White Labs make bigger vials or smack packs
 
jetmac said:
True. If(according to Mr Malty who has worked with both major yeast companies)the simplest beer a 5.25 gal 1.048 ale, requires 1.8 vials or smack packs, why don't Wyeast and White Labs make bigger vials or smack packs
Click to expand...

I use enough S-05 and Nottingham, it's cheap enough that I can just throw in two packs if that's called for. Although I've done some starters, and have harvested / washed yeast, no more than I brew it's something of a PITA.
 

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