You CAN make good extract only beer

I have been a homebrewer for over 8 years, but just recently got back into it from a 4 year hiatis. My previous beers always had an annoying metalic "twang" that I could never seem to get rid of (and believe me - I tried everything). Since I am recently unemployed - and like beer - I decided to give it another try. After finding this great boards and doing some research - I found that this "twang" could be what most call extract twang. I aways bought my LME from the local homebrew supply store - so I guess that could be the case.

This first batch getting back into it was a hefe-wizen as I really love wheat beers. I got a hopped Edme kit, added 3 lbs. of wheat DME, specialty hefe-wizen dry yeast, and some extra flavoring/aroma hops at the end of the boil. Fermented in primary for two weeks, then kegged for three weeks. I just poured my first glass and was very impressed. Plenty of wheat flavor, decent head, and no "twang" - this is what I got into homebrewing for.

So - it took 8 years (well - actually 4) - but you can make good extract only beer that you are proud to share. It obviously depends though on the freshness of the extract... So if there are any discouraged extract only brewers out there - keep your head up.

Now - onto the next step - mini-mashing.

Good job. The jump to mini is worth it, but won't last long until you want to go AG

Parker36 said:

Good job. The jump to mini is worth it, but won't last long until you want to go AG

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Actually - my goal IS to get to AG - but as you can tell - homebrewing does not come naturally to me and I need a lot of practice before I finally get it down. Plus - since I am unemployed - I can't afford any specialty equipment. I can do the mini-mash in a 5 gallon round igloo water cooler - so I am going to go that route and see if my beer quality improves.

Also - I am only buying from Austin Home Brew Supply as I know their ingredients are always fresh. All this time I thought there was a failure in my process - and it appears it was a freshness issue (or I got lucky with this batch LOL).

DD2000GT said:

Plus - since I am unemployed - I can't afford any specialty equipment. I can do the mini-mash in a 5 gallon round igloo water cooler - so I am going to go that route and see if my beer quality improves.

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You can convert that same cooler to a mash tun for all-grain brewing for about ten bucks.

That doesn't get you the rest of the equipment, but I can tell you to keep an eye on your local Craigslist for brewing gear. Many people have scored great equipment for next-to-nothing.

And, incidentally, I completely agree. You CAN make not just good, but great beer using extracts.

+1 to great beer being possible using extracts. I have been kind of hit-or-miss as far as dealing with "twang" goes, but I think these are the two most important factors:

1) Fresh extract. If you can't be sure of the freshness of your LME, use DME instead
2) Boil volume. The closer to a full boil you can do, the less caramelization will occur in the kettle and the less and un-planned, annoying sweetness will be hanging around afterwards. Smaller batches make it way easier to do full or near-full boils. If you must do a small partial boil, try a late extract addition.

Well, my expercience is limited, very limited, but I brewed a Coopers Lager, extract only, it was my first one, and I got a very good beer.
I think that the trick was a very accurate sanitzation job, temperature control and a long rest of the beer upon his cake.
Surely the quality of the extract make is business.
My two european cents,
Giovanni

I wrote a blog about it awhile back...

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

It ain't the type of beer beign brewed, it's the brewer....Not every contest winner is All Grain...

These are holy words!

goplayoutside said:

+1 to great beer being possible using extracts. I have been kind of hit-or-miss as far as dealing with "twang" goes, but I think these are the two most important factors:

1) Fresh extract. If you can't be sure of the freshness of your LME, use DME instead
2) Boil volume. The closer to a full boil you can do, the less caramelization will occur in the kettle and the less and un-planned, annoying sweetness will be hanging around afterwards. Smaller batches make it way easier to do full or near-full boils. If you must do a small partial boil, try a late extract addition.

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Regarding boil volume, you can reduce the effect of a small boil (darkened color, lousy hop utilization etc) by doing a partial boil. A full boil on a kitchen stove is tough, but you can use a smaller brewpot and boil only about 1/2 the extract for 60 minutes and add the remainder at flame out. I'm sure you can get full details about procedures else where on the site.

goplayoutside said:

Fresh extract. If you can't be sure of the freshness of your LME, use DME instead

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Hello All!

First off, I'm an uber-noobie with little experience other than studying and asking opinions of more experienced brewers. So my experience on this is quite limited...I'm just questioning LME based on pure instinct here.

But I have always wondered about the possibility of LME in a metal can adding the "twang" to the flavor. You know, in the same way that peas or other veggies in a can just never taste the same as fresh? I know that some suppliers offer LME in plastic but locally I am only able to find it in metal cans. I have just steered away from LME in a can for the same reason I avoid canned corn...the metallic flavor. I use DME not from vast experience but from instinct based on canned veggies I've made the mistake of cooking with.

Can any of you with more experience offer a difference in metal vs. plastic DME containers?

-Tripod

Tripod said:

...But I have always wondered about the possibility of LME in a metal can adding the "twang" to the flavor... -Tripod

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This batch I just did was out of a can - and no twang. I have heard others claim this - but now I wonder if it is just the age of the LME in the can. A lot of canned kits sit on the shelf a LOOOONG time.

DD2000GT said:

This batch I just did was out of a can - and no twang. I have heard others claim this - but now I wonder if it is just the age of the LME in the can. A lot of canned kits sit on the shelf a LOOOONG time.

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That is the reason.

+1 to old LME tasting crappy. Can is not a factor, I've had twangy brew from LME that came in plastic.

Another thing that can be important is fermentation temperature -- you can use the best ingredients and process, and then let you ferment get to cold and your ale yeast flocculates out early, or too hot and it makes lots of off flavors.

goplayoutside said:

Another thing that can be important is fermentation temperature -- you can use the best ingredients and process, and then let you ferment get to cold and your ale yeast flocculates out early, or too hot and it makes lots of off flavors.

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Amen. My best beers have all been extracts. My 3 AG brews have been ok, bad and ok. The first I'll say was because of the WB-06 yeast. Otherwise it was ok. The bad and the OK fermented at about 85 degrees + and one tastes really hot, the other is drinkable.

Now I have temp control with my freezer and I'm hoping that my 4th AG is all that it's cracked up to be.

But I made great beer from fresh extract that people loved so much that it's all long, long gone.

Mike

I got the twang in a recipe from AHS so it can not be from old LME. it was my first and I posted about a "twang" before I had ever heard of it in this thread. This is really intriguing me now.

it is still drinkable but still there.

goplayoutside said:

+1 to old LME tasting crappy. Can is not a factor, I've had twangy brew from LME that came in plastic.

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Agreed....scotch ale kit from an internet supplier had some twang and the LME came in a plastic jug. Have made 3-4 extract kit brews from other internet providers that came out clean and tasty.

DD2000GT said:

This batch I just did was out of a can - and no twang. I have heard others claim this - but now I wonder if it is just the age of the LME in the can. A lot of canned kits sit on the shelf a LOOOONG time.

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Thanks for clearing that up, All. So it appears age is the issue...

I don't use LME so it isn't an issue for me but I've heard brew-buddies say the same thing about the "twang" in their LME brews and it always put me off. So now I stick with DME.

I'm not knocking LME, by the way. I just use DME.

-Tripod

SORRY FOR THE UBER NOOB......but what is LME and DME ?

LIQUID malt extract.........LME
DRY malt extractt.........DME

no sorries req'd, I'm not big on acronyms!

DD2000GT said:

Actually - my goal IS to get to AG - but as you can tell - homebrewing does not come naturally to me and I need a lot of practice before I finally get it down. Plus - since I am unemployed - I can't afford any specialty equipment. I can do the mini-mash in a 5 gallon round igloo water cooler - so I am going to go that route and see if my beer quality improves.

Also - I am only buying from Austin Home Brew Supply as I know their ingredients are always fresh. All this time I thought there was a failure in my process - and it appears it was a freshness issue (or I got lucky with this batch LOL).

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im not sure what it is but my LME is made by my LHBS and every beer has that twang in it except for their wheat extract. just food for thought might have been you noticed it before in your barley only LME.

thooper41 said:

im not sure what it is but my LME is made by my LHBS and every beer has that twang in it except for their wheat extract. just food for thought might have been you noticed it before in your barley only LME.

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LHBS do not make liquid extract. There are some stores that imply that they make it, but they do not make it. Which store is it? You can PM me if you like. Northern Brewer implys that they make their own but it is made by Breiss.

Forrest

thooper41 said:

im not sure what it is but my LME is made by my LHBS and every beer has that twang in it except for their wheat extract. just food for thought might have been you noticed it before in your barley only LME.

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No - I have tasted it in my wheat beers as well. In my early years, I brewed hundreds of gallons of homebrew and they all had this taste - drove me crazy! Now, I only get it every now and then.

UPDATE:

After 6 weeks of bottle conditioning I just tried another bottle - it was brewed during the Hurricane Ike storm (I named this batch Hurricane Hefe-Wizen). The beer has actualy gotten better! Very nice wheat flavor and no off flavors. I will probably add a tad more hops to the next batch, but will not go crazy. The keg got blown through in about a week - it was a hit with friends and family. I only have one more flip top and I will crack it open after about 3 months to try. Here is a pic of my beer:



Like the post says - you CAN make good extract only beer!

Dan

DD2000GT said:

My previous beers always had an annoying metalic "twang" that I could never seem to get rid of (and believe me - I tried everything). Since I am recently unemployed - and like beer - I decided to give it another try. After finding this great boards and doing some research - I found that this "twang" could be what most call extract twang. I aways bought my LME from the local homebrew supply store - so I guess that could be the case.

Click to expand...

I wonder if that is the same problem I've been having. I am completely anal about everything in my process (cleaning, sanitizing, boiling procedures, temp control, etc) but my batches (extract brewing too) all have a twangy taste to them. It doesn't kill the beer, but it is there and takes away from what I know is the real flavor. Maybe going mini-mash and using DME is sooner in my future than I thought.

Bach7210 said:

I wonder if that is the same problem I've been having. I am completely anal about everything in my process (cleaning, sanitizing, boiling procedures, temp control, etc) but my batches (extract brewing too) all have a twangy taste to them. It doesn't kill the beer, but it is there and takes away from what I know is the real flavor. Maybe going mini-mash and using DME is sooner in my future than I thought.

Click to expand...

DME is made from LME. DME or LME is ok just make sure it is fresh. If it is in a metal can chances are it is not fresh.

Forrest

I wish I had a way to tell if the LME I have been using is fresh or not. I've made kits from Midwest up to this point, I don't recal them printing a date produced on the jug they deliver the LME in. I just got a kit from Morebeer and I don't think they do that either. I have not brewed with anything out of a can (doubt I ever will).

I've recently begain understanding the major importance of controlling fermentation temperatures. I think not giving that enough consideration in the past has added to the off flavor I have been getting. I've also noticed that in (and I think this has been addressed) darker beers I don't have that "taste" that everyone is discribing here.

I brew from LME always. I am a lazy brewer. But none of my LME comes from cans. My LHBS has the extract in bulk barrels that they dispense into buckets that kind of look like big margarine containers. It is cheaper for me and they make more money from it too. They do a fair bit of business and I can not imagine that those 55 gallon barrels stick around too long.

I have been brewing off and on for about 5 years, and I have never had an "extract twang." I have had a problem with drinking very young beer. I thought at first it was a "extract twang." If I try to drink a big beer (barleywines and IIPAs mostly) too soon it always had a very powerful bad taste. But after letting it bottle condition for a month it tasted right on the mark.

After figuring this out a very long time ago I still make this mistake today. I thought that I had ruined my Columbus Honey Barley Wine by using bad hops or something. I mean it was not good at all a month ago. But now it is tastey. It took about 3 weeks in the bottle before it was any good.

madewithchicken said:

I have been brewing off and on for about 5 years, and I have never had an "extract twang." I have had a problem with drinking very young beer. I thought at first it was a "extract twang." If I try to drink a big beer (barleywines and IIPAs mostly) too soon it always had a very powerful bad taste. But after letting it bottle condition for a month it tasted right on the mark.

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I've believed for a long time that what new brewers often call "extract twang" is just another form of green beer....

It tastes funny to them (because it's too early yet) then they read about the dreaded twang, and then they equate youngness with the twang...

(it's another one of the reasons for the "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc" under my name.)

Revvy said:

I wrote a blog about it awhile back...

It ain't the type of beer being brewed, it's how much blow and prostitutes you go through while brewing it...

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Revvy - I like your style

Interested to see who else chimes in on the LHBS with their bulk LME. I just got some from a store that opened up near my area and they do the exact same thing.

I wanted to say "WAIT!" as he was pouring it out so I could do half and half with LME and DME but alas... I didnt. But that the age part kind of cheered me up to. The LHBS guys also reassured me that they all have made great LME kits.