Who has experience with coffee and chocolate?

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crbice

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Looking to brew an imperial coffee stout soon. Are there any suggestions in the amount to brew with when to add it? I have heard adding it to the end of the boil will add flavor as well extract some of the caffeine, thoughts? As well what would be the best time to add chocolate to get maximum flavor and gravity increase. I was contemplating boiling water and melting chocolate and adding it to the fermenter... or maybe the boil kettle. what do you think?
 
Try cold steeping your (course ground) coffee for a day or two before brewing and add it near the end of the boil or at flame out. Coffee extracts astringency when heated and it may add some bitterness that you didn't account for. Cold steeping will offer a smooth, full coffee flavor without any bitterness. Be aware that adding cold steeped coffee liquid will kill your boil for a few min so maybe add it at flameout and it can help cool your wort at the same time.

If you do some math, 5 us gal of full strength brewed coffee requires 48 oz of grounds, or 4 regular sized bags of coffee beans. So, 4 bags of coffee would essentially replace your brewing water with coffee. Use that to gauge how much coffee flavor you want. I just brewed a breakfast stout with 1 full bag of ground coffee and the coffee flavor is VERY prominent but not yet overpowering.

Not a lot of experience with chocolate. I know you should use cocoa nibs and I've used it in the boil and in the secondary but always in the same batch (never either/or) so I can't tell which adds more flavor. If you add to the secondary be sure to use a hop bag because it will really clog your siphon rod.
 
I cold steep 8 oz of medium ground beans in about 40 oz of water for a normal gravity (~1.060) 5 gal batch, the coffee flavor is assertive. For an Imperial, I'd still do 8 oz and have it be more subtle or up it to 10 oz.

I just tried 4 oz cocoa nibs in a stout, can't really taste them. So I guess I'd go 6-8 oz of those. Personally, I stick to one flavor at a time until I nail it proportion-wise. So now that I know my own personal coffee additions, I could try a coffee-vanilla or coffee chocolate beer with just the new flavor as the unknown variable.
 
I dry hopped with 4oz of cacao nibs before in a milk stout and at first, the chocolate taste was very prominent but it faded quite a bit over time (a couple months) and was gradually replaced with more of a coffee taste (I also dry hopped with ~1/3lb of coarse ground coffee, french roast).
 
I've made some coffee porters, never used chocolate before though. I use my French press and make it really strong, then add it at kegging time. Last time I made it, it was overpowering for the first couple of weeks, then smoothed out. I might have not mixed it well enough in the keg, though.

Lots of people recommend cold brewing coffee. I've never tried it, so can't say if it's any better.


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You can add unsweetened bakers chocolate at the beginning of the boil for a nice chocolate flavor. Make sure it is unsweetened though.


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I've never added coffee to a beer, but have a recipe in kind I would like ready for fall. Something like a fullers London porter with the coffee flavours enhanced with a few ounces of course ground dark roast. I understand the bitterness/astringency concerns of boiling coffee, but is there any reason I couldnt streamline the addition by getting the wort to 190ish and adding the coffee like it was whirlpool hops? A strong French press batch added at flameout would also work for me as I already have one.
 
When I did my Vanilla Java Porter I added my cold steeped coffee into secondary with my vanilla beans. I did 5 scoops of the coffee grounds into my french press with the supplied scoop and then put the whole thing in and it came out a bit more coffee flavor and not enough vanilla. Next time Ill do the same amount but only put 2/3-3/4 of the french press and slightly change how I did my vanilla beans.
 
I used cacao nibs for a chocolate flavor. 2 oz for the last 15 min boil and 2 oz in secondary. Not a hint of chocolate. More like coffee I was very dissappointed. I even tried boiling water and adding cocoa powder(pretty bitter) that didn't help much either. Good luck.


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I made a coffee pumpkin stout a few years back. I used coffee beans in secondary. I racked the beer right on top of the beans. I think I used 1lb and left it on there for 7 days. The coffee flavor was there, but probably could have used more.

I just brewed a chocolate stout recently and put six ounces of unsweetened bakers chocolate in for the last 10 minutes of the boil. That's still in primary though, so I'm not sure how that will turn out.
 
I used 8 oz of Hershey's unsweetened cocoa powder @10 min for Jamil's chocolate hazelnut porter and it was pretty great. Definite chocolate flavor. I didn't strain it out (if that would even be possible). It all went into the fermenter. My understanding is that the longer it sits on the chocolate the more flavor you get out of it and I believe it. I let it sit in primary for 30 days. Probably won't do that next time, as it may have been a little too long - very chocolatey :D
 
I have not yet used coffee in a beer, but if I did I would brew the coffee cold. Put the grounds and water into a french press (or anything that you can attach a filter to easily), and let it sit in the fridge overnight. Cold brewing the coffee allows you to extract the coffee flavor without any of the bitterness.

As for the chocolate, I met with a local professional brewer and asked what the best method would be. He told me to make a extract, which blew me away because I never saw that suggestion in all my online reading. It makes tons of sense for a lot of obvious reasons, and it avoids all the mess and filtering involved with using real chocolate or dumping powder in there.

Chocolate extract recipe:
1 part cocoa powder, preferably Dutch process. Not Hershey's or Nesquik.
2 parts 70-80 proof vodka.
Combine in a saucepan, and heat to about 170* or so for a few minutes (heating destroys some of the flavor, but without it the extract can take 10 months to really come together), then pour into a jar (I actually used a capped beer bottle) and let it sit in a dark place for at least 2-3 weeks, shaking it every day.

And that's it! I used about 3/4 c. of powder, and 1 and 1/2 c. of vodka, and it worked great for a 5 gallon batch.
 
Cold brewing the coffee allows you to extract the coffee flavor without any of the bitterness.QUOTE]

This, as far as the coffee goes. I've tried brewing coffee and cold brewing. My best experience thus far:

Cold brew 96oz of coffee (make sure you get a decent coffee...I wouldn't suggest something like Folgers or Maxwell House). When you're ready to bottle, mix the coffee with your priming sugar, mix that into your bottling bucket, and bottle/keg.

Worked wonderfully for me. It was a good coffee flavor, but not completely overpowering. Additionally, the bitterness was not extracted since the coffee was never heated. Good stuff.
 
I have made both a double chocolate stout and a coffee bourbon stout, but I have not combined the two. I cold brewed the coffee, which I strongly recommend. Cold brewed coffee has less bitterness and less acidity, so you get more flavor. I used about 20 oz of water and about 4 oz of coffee and the flavor is certainly pronounced in the beer. For the chocolate beer, I used Godiva chocolate powder in secondary and it turned out very well.
 
Well I can tell you what NOT to do. I added 0.75lb of Sumatra to the secondary fermenter before doing any research on this. That is WAY too much for a 5gal batch. I also think 2 weeks in the secondary was too long. The coffee overpowered the brew and came out syrupy. Next time I'm going to use the cold brew methods mentioned here
 
With my last chocolate coffee stout, I cold pressed 2 oz of coffee in a 1.5 cups water and used 4 oz cacao nibs. I added both after the primary fermentation. I left the nibs in for about 30 days.

At first the chocolate aroma was a little strong and the coffee flavor was not strong enough. Over time the chocolate mellowed out and the coffee became more prominent. It's 6 months old now and I still have some. I would say the flavor is exactly where I want it. Makes me wish I had saved more!
 
thank you all for the awesome replies. I have a lot to consider and I'm excited to get this batch off the ground ill post the results as soon as I get them. in the meantime keep the advice coming! great website!
 
Holy carp, some of you use a lot of coffee! I think I added 1 oz of coarsely ground Caribou beans in my hop mesh bag. Added to secondary for 24 hrs and I could taste it even in a 1.102 OG RIS. Could have gone 2 oz perhaps, but I wanted it in the background.

As far as chocolate goes, many routes to take. You can get chocolate notes from straight up chocolate malt. As little as 6oz, as much as 16 oz (adds a lot of roast at 16 oz also).

Option 2, is unsweetened cocoa powder. I added 6 oz of powder at flameout. Gave a lot of nice chocoloate flavor, but it aged in the keg 3 months before I tapped it. It was pretty bitter and astringent before then.

Nibs soaked in vodka for a couple of weeks (all added into secondary) will be my next try in a chocolate porter. Probably start with 4 oz of nibs and see how that works.
 
I've done chocolate stout and coffee porter, but haven't combined the two.......yet.

The stout turns out with a nice chocolate flavor by simply adding 8oz of unsweetened cocoa powder and a pound of lactose (to balance out the bitterness of the cocoa) mixed dry in a bowl then made into a pourable slurry by adding some warm water. Add the slurry to the boil at 10 min.

Cold brewing the coffee is the way to go IMO. Get 4oz of dark roast beans, course grind and let them sit about 12 hours in cold water on the kitchen counter. Strain out the grounds and add at bottling/kegging time.

FYI- a beer with this sort of complexity is going to need some extra conditioning time to get right. Wait 3 months before trying it out and your patience will be rewarded.:D
 
Holy carp, some of you use a lot of coffee! I think I added 1 oz of coarsely ground Caribou beans in my hop mesh bag. Added to secondary for 24 hrs and I could taste it even in a 1.102 OG RIS. Could have gone 2 oz perhaps, but I wanted it in the background.

As far as chocolate goes, many routes to take. You can get chocolate notes from straight up chocolate malt. As little as 6oz, as much as 16 oz (adds a lot of roast at 16 oz also).

Option 2, is unsweetened cocoa powder. I added 6 oz of powder at flameout. Gave a lot of nice chocoloate flavor, but it aged in the keg 3 months before I tapped it. It was pretty bitter and astringent before then.

Nibs soaked in vodka for a couple of weeks (all added into secondary) will be my next try in a chocolate porter. Probably start with 4 oz of nibs and see how that works.



I have heard of people soaking boos into their wood chips and adding it to the secondary. Would the alcohol threaten the yeast activity at all?


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I made a coffee pumpkin stout a few years back. I used coffee beans in secondary. I racked the beer right on top of the beans. I think I used 1lb and left it on there for 7 days. The coffee flavor was there, but probably could have used more.

I just brewed a chocolate stout recently and put six ounces of unsweetened bakers chocolate in for the last 10 minutes of the boil. That's still in primary though, so I'm not sure how that will turn out.

I'm very interested in how your chocolate stout turned out keep me posted.


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I have heard of people soaking boos into their wood chips and adding it to the secondary. Would the alcohol threaten the yeast activity at all?

Depends I guess. If you have a 12% beer that sits in secondary for months, then the added alcohol isn't going to help out the already stressed yeast from firing up again in the bottle.

If you have a < 8% brew that doesn't sit around for months in secondary, then a moderate amount of hard liquor ( < 6 oz) should not affect the yeast much.

You can always add 1/4 packet of yeast to a bottling bucket if you are unsure of yeast viability. Cheap insurance. I have done this twice.
 
I'm very interested in how your chocolate stout turned out keep me posted.


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Will do! I am transferring to secondary tonight and adding raspberry puree and then bottling in another 10 days or so. I'll probably give it a month in the bottle to condition and then crack one and see how things are coming together.
 
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