Recipe Tips?

How does this recipe look everyone? This will most likely be my next brew, now that I am moved into my new apartment and am going to give my electric stove a try.

Opening Day Amber Ale
All-Grain
5-gal
Est. OG- 1.051
Est. FG- 1.012
Est. ABV- 5.19%
Est. IBU- 29.8
Est. Color- 14.5 SRM

5.5lb Pale 2-row
3.0lb CaraPils
2.0lb Caramel/Crystal 60L

1oz Centennial (60min)
Irish Moss (15min)

WLP001 California Ale Yeast

i would cut back on the carapils and up the two row. 1 pound of carapils is plenty.

You might not even need any carapils with all that crystal (which is maybe too much).

No flavor hops? That's not necessarily wrong, but is it what you want. That's not usually the yeast for a low hop ale.

McGarnigle said:

You might not even need any carapils with all that crystal (which is maybe too much).

No flavor hops? That's not necessarily wrong, but is it what you want. That's not usually the yeast for a low hop ale.

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So... little to no Carapils, less crystal, and some hops to finish off? Maybe a different yeast?

If you could add more 2 row or other base malt that would be great. Carapils adds body but I don't think is needed as crystal does as well. I'd probably go with some later hop presence. You could stick with that yeast, but it is usually used for beers with hop flavor, and right now you are all about maltiness.

Too much sweet malts (Crystal & Carapils), limit it to maybe a pound until you know what they will give you.

Some finish hops would be good.

Yeast OK.

You might want to give your new stove a test run with water. You may not get that much volume to a full boil and might have to stick with a partial mash.

Calder said:

Too much sweet malts (Crystal & Carapils), limit it to maybe a pound until you know what they will give you.

Some finish hops would be good.

Yeast OK.

You might want to give your new stove a test run with water. You may not get that much volume to a full boil and might have to stick with a partial mash.

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This is what I have been concerned with... I wanted to do an outdoor brew setup, but unfortunately grill/burner laws in apartments are a real drag, so I am going to do my best. So far with cooking my stove has been incredibly efficient, boiling normal size boils in a matter of minutes. I believe it can work up a full boil, but I may take up your advice and work on some water first.

How does this variation work for everyone?

Opening Day Amber Ale
All-Grain
5-gal
Est. OG- 1.051
Est. FG- 1.012
Est. ABV- 5.19%
Est. IBU- 29.8
Est. Color- 14.5 SRM

7.0lb Pale 2-row
2.5lb Caramel/Crystal 60L

1oz Centennial (60min)
1oz Amarillo (Flameout)
Irish Moss (15min)

WLP001 California Ale Yeast

Wow, yeah that's enough crystal for a 10 gallon batch. Im not ever sure the 5 lbs of base has enough diastic power to convert all that

bottlebomber said:

Wow, yeah that's enough crystal for a 10 gallon batch. Im not ever sure the 5 lbs of base has enough diastic power to convert all that

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How does the revised recipe look?

Exchange about 1.5 lbs of crystal for Munich and you're in business for a nice APA. You can even add .5 lbs of carapils back in to make sure your head retention is good.

Ravenshead said:

Exchange about 1.5 lbs of crystal for Munich and you're in business for a nice APA. You can even add .5 lbs of carapils back in to make sure your head retention is good.

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Would that still fit an Amber? Because that is what I am going for... I currently have an APA that is bottle conditioning at an absurdly slow rate. May be a scrapper, but decided to move on an try an Amber Ale

WSURaider41 said:

How does the revised recipe look?

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It looks a lot better. Are you desiring a really sweet beer? Because that's still a ton of crytal. I would cut it back to a pound or definely not more than 20 ounces. If your wanting the caramel flavor why not go with a crystal 120 or something?

How about 1.5lbs 60L and 8.0lbs 2-row?

That sound like a good compromise if you want it sweeter, you can always make a sweeter beer next time or even back sweeten with lactose, but a really sweet, low IBU beer is a hard thing to dispose of

WSURaider41 said:

Would that still fit an Amber? Because that is what I am going for... I currently have an APA that is bottle conditioning at an absurdly slow rate. May be a scrapper, but decided to move on an try an Amber Ale

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I don't know about that, I don't really brew for style that much. I was just looking to "de-sweeten" the recipe. Someone mentioned switching to 120 and reducing the amount. That should work.

How about this recipe?

9.0 lbs 2-row
1.0 lbs Crystal 120L

1oz Centennial 60min
1oz Amarillo (Flameout)

WLP001 California Ale yeast

Brings my estimated stats to this:
Est. OG: 1.050
Est. FG: 1.011
Est. Color: 14.5 SRM
Est. IBU: 30.1

Looks good to me. Someone with more experience than I may want to see a little of the lower end crystal mixed in for complexity. I've been getting that kind of advise at my brew club about a porter I made with lots of the really dark stuff. I don't know if that would apply to an amber ale so take this comment with a huge grain of salt.

In fact, I would make it as is and learn from any mistakes along the way. It's certainly not going to taste bad.

Edit: I just punched a lb of 40 and a 1/2 lb of 120 into BeerSmith and got an SRM of 13.

Ok, so how about...

9lbs 2-row
1lb Crystal 40L
.5lb Crystal 120L

Same hops and schedule.

WSURaider41 said:

Ok, so how about...

9lbs 2-row
1lb Crystal 40L
.5lb Crystal 120L

Same hops and schedule.

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Better! I'd still suggest some flavor hops. Hops at 60, 15 , and 0 minutes are pretty standard and will give you what the beer needs for balance and flavor.

How about 1 oz of Cascade at 15?

You're good. Cascade plays very nice with the rest of your hops, brew it. I can't believe you've waited this long.

Mistakes only hurt a little going down.

My opinion but I'd go
9 lbs 2row
1 lb. crystal 55
1 lb carapils
maybe .5 Munich just a thought

Ravenshead said:

You're good. Cascade plays very nice with the rest of your hops, brew it. I can't believe you've waited this long.

Mistakes only hurt a little going down.

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Thanks Ravenshead... the only reason I have waited this long has been due to a move. I have moved to an apartment with an electric stove and so I was unsure about how I was going to be able to brew since our apartment does not allow grills/outdoor flames on balconies or patios. I am going to give the electric stove a shot though and see how it turns out. I really think my burner is strong enough to withstand the weight of the boil.

Very excited to get another brew going soon.

I'm going to add my voice to the crowd that thinks CaraPils is not necessary for the mashing brewer. Any characteristic you get from CaraPils - body and foam retention - you can get from other ingredients or mash technique.

It's a crutch. Learn to walk on your own.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob: Not sure I get your point with the carapils. I often use 1lb in my amber ale. Similar to the recipe that was arrived at here. eg 10 lb base, 1 lb 40 crystal, 1 lb cara, 1 oz centennial (60), 1 oz cascade (20), 0.5 oz cascade at flameout. I use Safeale 05 to turn it into beer. Turns out great. But if there is a better way I am all ears.

thanks, Mike

Bob said:

Any characteristic you get from CaraPils - body and foam retention - you can get from other ingredients or mash technique.

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I'm also interested to hear more about this. It recently occurred to me to substitute Carapils for wheat in recipes that call for it for body and head retention. (My wife is gluten intolerant. She does fine with barley, but wheat gives her problems.)

I don't want to keep dropping the wheat from recipes, without a suitable replacement. But I don't know if Carapils would be appropriate for any and all recipes. For example, would it be out of place in a Saison?

Sorry for the threadjack.

No worries on the threadjack. I am always interested to hear what conversations are sparked from my original inquiries. This is how I learn.

Well, CaraPils will get you enhanced body and foam retention. I contend that if your beer is lacking in either, you can get both from simple mash techniques (higher sacc. temperature for the former and a brief low-temperature rest for the latter). Somehow professional brewers and many homebrewers get excellent foam retention without it; I know I do.

Most brewers just use it because, er, they use it. That's really what I rail against.

Bob

MikeinCT said:

I use Safeale 05 to turn it into beer.

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FWIW, US05 is an extremely high attenuator. I use it all the time but changing yeasts would give you increased body on its own, albeit with a little increased sweetness as well.

Actually I am impressed with the head and it's retention from my all-grain beers. Though I often use carapils in my Amber Ale, I did not appreciate all of its properties. But I think you are saying that if I use another variety of yeast - like an Safale 04? I will get the advantages of increased body.

Also similar to the effects seen from mashing a few degrees higher?

thanks again, Mike

Probably not, not really. Not as dramatic as you might think. A sacc. rest of 156 vs 152 is, IMO, much more dramatic in terms of increased body than changing from S05 to S04.

Bob

I almost never use carapils. It's not needed in recipes that already have ingredients like crystal malt. (Carapils is a crystal malt, from the way it's made). Crystal malt enhances foam stability and body so if you mash properly, and use some other form of crystal malt like crystal 20/40/60/etc, carapils is redundant.

Is using whole leaf hops that much different than using pellet hops? The reason I ask is that I get my ingredients from Austin Homebrew, and they do not offer Centennial in pellet form, so I am thinking of going with whole leaf... thoughts?

WSURaider41 said:

Is using whole leaf hops that much different than using pellet hops? The reason I ask is that I get my ingredients from Austin Homebrew, and they do not offer Centennial in pellet form, so I am thinking of going with whole leaf... thoughts?

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No, not much difference at all. I use them interchangeably.

A general rule is to not use over 20% crystal type malts. The rule can be broken and all crystal malts are not the same. Wyermann actually recommends their carapils up to 40%. APA's tend to be 0% to 10%.

WSURaider41 said:

Is using whole leaf hops that much different than using pellet hops? The reason I ask is that I get my ingredients from Austin Homebrew, and they do not offer Centennial in pellet form, so I am thinking of going with whole leaf... thoughts?

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Utilization is slightly higher with pellets, so for a given weight of hops calculated IBU will be slightly higher for pellets vs. whole-flower.

And everyone say it with me: WHOLE FLOWER. Not "whole leaf". We use the FLOWERS, not the leaves. You, too, Yoop.

I prefer whole or plug hops to pellets. Draining the kettle, whole hops make a lovely thick filter bed, trapping much of the trub in the kettle, lessening loss in the fermenter. Of course, I do lose a quart or so in the kettle, depending on the recipe.

There is a caveat to using whole hops: In certain intensely hoppy styles, pellets are preferred. Not to get too technical, but it has to do with boiling too much vegetative mass. Can leave "off" flavors.

Cheers,

Bob

BTW - this is a great discussion for me. I have been brewing all grain for a year and these insightes really hit home. thanks, Mike