Homebrew stores..

Are all homebrew stores insanely crazy about their prices? I just went to one in Des Moines, Iowa and there prices were almost double that you would see online. Yes I know you would have to pay for shipping but if you bought online, but I have to pay tax if I pay at the store! I know from now on I will be buying everything online. Maybe this isn't the best place to start this thread because I am kind of ranting and raving.

It's a common conundrum we go through in this hobby. We want to support our store so it can stay in business, but the power of the budget creeps into the decision making process. My LHBS is in Brooklyn, they pay high rent, and obviously some of that gets passed on in prices. Luckily, they mostly pass it on through the equipment, which I don't need any of anymore.

My solution is I wait until I can order $100 from Austinhomebrew (sorry for the shameless plug) to get bulk stuff, and any in-between stuff I strictly get from my homebrew shop, like specialty grains and yeast.

This system keeps my conscious and my wallet both satisfied.

+1. Online for big buys, but local for small purchases or things that you need in the middle of a brew session.

they will cost more money,but you walk out with your stuff in hand. and if you have a good one like I do. they can give good advice.(or bad if its a bad store)

A store front cost more than a warehouse. the great thing about mine is I can order from them online and it will ship for the cost of my gas to drive 40 min. to the store. so I am kinda biased.

I use Highgravity. and for the middle of the bible belt where we just got homebrewing legal, its nice just to have a brew shop.

Luck of the draw, I'm afraid. I was born in central Texas and moved to Austin, home of AustinHomebrew. The store is even better than the site (I have been to their third location now - mutherfers last moved away from me just when I moved closer to them, Forest!@). I can get stuff (HOPS!, etc) not even listed online and I have available the serious expertise of the in-store semi-pro brewers that have been in-house for many years.

Oh, and the browsing, the browsing. I'm sorry, I what where you saying?

[no, I am not employed by nor benefit financially from AHS; just fortunate]

My local brewshop is awsome! grains and hops are only slightly more than online. The big bonus is that he is a great guy with sound advice!

DoubleFisted said:

Are all homebrew stores insanely crazy about their prices? I just went to one in Des Moines, Iowa and there prices were almost double that you would see online. Yes I know you would have to pay for shipping but if you bought online, but I have to pay tax if I pay at the store! I know from now on I will be buying everything online. Maybe this isn't the best place to start this thread because I am kind of ranting and raving.

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Which one did you go to? One is insanely expensive, and one is about the same as using an online store once you factor in shipping. Unless you were comparing equipment prices, then our LHBS is a bit steep.

I was born and raised in Iowa City so I welcome a fellow Iowan to give my store a shot.

www.austinhomebrew.com

Forrest

Darn, I'm from Austin living in SC! Too bad I wasn't into home brewing when I was there. But, I live right outside of Charlotte and we have a great HBS here. Online they are ebrew.com but they are Alternative Brewing.

I love going to their store. I was going to order all my equipment online but decided to give the local shop a try first. I bought everything from them and haven't bought anything on line yet. I haven't had to. Their prices are the same online or in store. You also have access to knowledgable people who like to talk brewing.

Plus, the browsing.......!

The LHBS I go (BYOB in Havertown) to is great. I don't expect prices in any retail store to be as low as on the web, but my guy is a great source of information, and his shop is a gathering point for brewers from the area. They have organized tastings regularly, and any time you come in, you are likely to be offered a taste of someone's latest beer.

On line has it's place but if you limit your purchases at the LHBS to just the odds and ends, it won't be long before you don't have an LHBS to go to. If the community aspects matter to you, that may be something to consider.

DoubleFisted said:

Are all homebrew stores insanely crazy about their prices? I just went to one in Des Moines, Iowa and there prices were almost double that you would see online. Yes I know you would have to pay for shipping but if you bought online, but I have to pay tax if I pay at the store! I know from now on I will be buying everything online. Maybe this isn't the best place to start this thread because I am kind of ranting and raving.

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Bottenbrew said:

Which one did you go to? One is insanely expensive, and one is about the same as using an online store once you factor in shipping. Unless you were comparing equipment prices, then our LHBS is a bit steep.

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i don't know which of the two you've gone to, but i've been going to beer crazy. have not been to the other one in years because of the bad customer service. haven't paid much attention to prices on equipment there, but ingregient prices seem close to the prices listed in the midwest supplies catalog i have.

I went to beer crazy. But I did buy equipment I needed a tower shank bought the barley crusher and a faucet. The guy there is extremely nice and they have amazing customer service. However I looked throughout the store and their prices on things just seemed extremely high

Storefronts and knowledgeable employees cost money, hence the higher price. In homebrewing, I don't feel that actually getting sound advice from LHBS is such a selling point: people will either read on the internet if they're into that (and don't ask questions) or they are content to just brew beer the way the kit/store owner tells them to (and they get ridiculous to great answers). 2-row is 2-row and there are probably enough recipes/techniques in well established and acclaimed books to last you a life time.

Now, in a more tech or gear intensive hobby (ie. skiing, etc.), I can see there's a real need for employees that are actually knowledgeable (ie. won't sell you something defective or inappropriate that can snap your shin in half if you fall). All I ask from my LHBS is that she mill my grain the day I pick up my order and to smile a tiny bit. I'd love to order online for the convenience, since she is located in the worst spot possible in all of the Quebec city area, but when I factor in shipping, she is competitive or better than all the Canadian online options.

There is a great store in Dubuque with pretty competitive prices and great service, not that close to Muscatine, but if you get up that way check it out.
http://www.bluffbrewhaus.com/

DoubleFisted said:

I went to beer crazy. But I did buy equipment I needed a tower shank bought the barley crusher and a faucet. The guy there is extremely nice and they have amazing customer service. However I looked throughout the store and their prices on things just seemed extremely high

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Ah yeah some of their equipment is on he high side depending on what you get. Their shanks/faucets/barley crushers are really high, too bad that is what you were looking at. Their ingredients are very competitive though.

Just picked up ingredients for my next brew yesterday. My lhbs charged $2 a pound for maris otter, milled for me don't have a mill yet. I also live in New Jersey so no tax on food.

The thing is, austinhomebrew and northern brewer and stuff have actual stores too. I believe they charge the same prices in store. So they seem to be doing things right. I guess stores just need to find the right balance.

I must use this oportunity to plug my LHBS. It is "Homebrew Headquarters" in Richardson, TX. Very nice, helpful people and the prices are not that far off online sales. I love that place!!

ruffdeezy said:

The thing is, austinhomebrew and northern brewer and stuff have actual stores too. I believe they charge the same prices in store. So they seem to be doing things right. I guess stores just need to find the right balance.

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You have to take into considerations that these two stores are behemoths and not your typical mom and pop store that only sells to walk-in customers. They probably aren't buying their wares at the same price than the little guys, hence the lower price even if they have a brick and mortar front going on with their warehouse.

agreed, their equipment is pricey, but ingredients are very reasonable. i'm a big fan of that store in general... will never step foot in the 'other' store again.

ruffdeezy said:

The thing is, austinhomebrew and northern brewer and stuff have actual stores too. I believe they charge the same prices in store. So they seem to be doing things right. I guess stores just need to find the right balance.

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Have you seen the size of the warehouse that NB has in St. Paul? They buy on a whole different pricing level with that kind of volume. They can keep their store prices lower because they are buying most everything WAY cheaper than most small brew shops.

I would also guess that they own their store locations and don't lease. Rent in retail spaces can be insanely expensive. Most people have no idea how expensive it is.

Finally, turnover is a huge factor. The online shops most likely turn over nearly all of their inventory pretty quickly. Retail stores have to buy inventory up front, and a lot of expensive items turn over very slowly. That's a lot of money tied up taking up space.

Sorry, but I just get really tired of people complaining about the cost of things at small stores. If you've never run a retail business you really have no idea how difficult it is. A very high % of independent retail stores fail within the first two years. That makes it a pretty risky business.

Everyone has a budget they have to live with. If that means you have to buy things online so be it. But don't complain too much about paying for convenience. Heck, I also see people complain all the time about the cost of certain items at online shops for something they can build themselves. No one is forcing you to buy anything from any place. I also get a laugh because 9 times out of 10 the people who complain loudest turn around and buy things like soft drinks without batting an eye. Talk about profit margins!

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I just found out that the homebrew store I have been going to charges more in-store than when you order and have them ship it to you.

Considering that they fill and ship their internet orders out of the very same building, that you have to weigh and bag your own grain, etc, I just don't see how it is more expensive for them to have me walk in and buy than it is to ship it to me. To be honest, it seems to me that it should be cheaper, since they don't have to measure and package, and save on the packing material (boxes, packing peanuts, tape, etc).

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you are.

Could you explain what it is that I am not considering? I am somewhat miffed about this, but if there is a good reason for their pricing structure that I am not grasping, I truly would like to understand that.

phishfood said:

Could you explain what it is that I am not considering? I am somewhat miffed about this, but if there is a good reason for their pricing structure that I am not grasping, I truly would like to understand that.

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I too would like to understand this.

I'll apologize for sounding like a jerk in advance, but I don't know how else to say this: true understanding requires the ability to put yourself in their shoes. I cant speak for their specific situation but there's a few off the top of my head.

1. When doing mail order, they don't have to waste an hour listening to you or someone else complain or just shoot the **** on their dime. You wouldn't believe how many people go into stores just to kill time. The staff almost certainly have better things to do than sit there and politely listen to you or watch you wander around their store. People who go online or call have generally already made the decision to buy something.

2. Most people expect online/mail order to be less expensive. You complain it costs less, while others would complain if it did not. They can't win.

3. Theft is a huge problem. The reality is that everyone who walks in that store is either an opportunity for gain or loss. Can you guess 100% who is who? It's a real factor that raises the cost of doing retail business.

These are just a few potential reasons. So next time you get upset try to walk a mile in their shoes before you jump to the wrong conclusion.

Thank you, those are some very reasonable explanations.

Of course, none of the above apply to me, I am the perfect customer.

I will still continue to buy from this store, as they at least act like they are happy to see me when I walk in. (Couldn't have anything to do with the bottles of brew I bring with me, could it?) Maybe they will let me order online and pick the orders up so I can save the shipping costs.

Trouble_Brewing said:

1. When doing mail order, they don't have to waste an hour listening to you or someone else complain or just shoot the **** on their dime. You wouldn't believe how many people go into stores just to kill time. The staff almost certainly have better things to do than sit there and politely listen to you or watch you wander around their store. People who go online or call have generally already made the decision to buy something.

2. Most people expect online/mail order to be less expensive. You complain it costs less, while others would complain if it did not. They can't win.

3. Theft is a huge problem. The reality is that everyone who walks in that store is either an opportunity for gain or loss. Can you guess 100% who is who? It's a real factor that raises the cost of doing retail business.

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All of those are true but I still can't think of a single store in the world that charges more on-site. And I shop at a fair number of stores which also have significant on-line presences. Campmor, B&H, Adorama, etc. In B&H's case, they have the extra savings of never having to bring shipped product into New York City at all -- they ship directly from Jersey or sometimes even directly from the manufacturer. And yet they don't charge higher prices in the store (sales taxes separate, of course).

I dunno, maybe bookstores are cheaper online than in the store on account of Amazon. But broadly speaking I think it's a rare exception, not a rule, the incentives you list notwithstanding.

I'll give you an example of a store that many times charges more onsite than online, Walmart. Sometimes they charge less onsite, they will price match other stores in the area, but they will not price match their own website, pretty strange.

Trouble_Brewing said:

I'll apologize for sounding like a jerk in advance, but I don't know how else to say this: true understanding requires the ability to put yourself in their shoes. I cant speak for their specific situation but there's a few off the top of my head.

1. When doing mail order, they don't have to waste an hour listening to you or someone else complain or just shoot the **** on their dime. You wouldn't believe how many people go into stores just to kill time. The staff almost certainly have better things to do than sit there and politely listen to you or watch you wander around their store. People who go online or call have generally already made the decision to buy something.

2. Most people expect online/mail order to be less expensive. You complain it costs less, while others would complain if it did not. They can't win.

3. Theft is a huge problem. The reality is that everyone who walks in that store is either an opportunity for gain or loss. Can you guess 100% who is who? It's a real factor that raises the cost of doing retail business.

These are just a few potential reasons. So next time you get upset try to walk a mile in their shoes before you jump to the wrong conclusion.

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Yes you make some valid points. However I use to be a store manager at sears. 80 percent of theft is from employees. You still have employees in warehouses. I disagree with you in the point that they are marking up prices because they have to deal with customers. Most people today have the inet and have no problem shopping online. They are there to give people advice and comfort so you shop at their store, and competetive pricing so you don't shop online. If a store owner thinks that he is going to run the prices up because he has to deal with customers, then he is in the wrong business.

My LHBS (1 of 6 or so within a 30 min drive or less) is great. Grain selection & prices are amazing, they have almost everything. If you ask about an item they don't stock, the next time you show up they seem to have a shelf full of them. I usually show up every 6 weeks or so and all three family members call me by name as I search the old brain for their names.

A couple of items are on the high end of the price scale, but that is usually not a common thing. Hops, grain and yeast are all well priced and better than online pricing. $28.70 for a bag of GW Pale Ale Malt or 2 row.

Also noticed yesterday that they have started to carry some of those Fermentis Dry yeasts that are not sold in retail packs, like S-189. They buy the bulk and repack them. Dry yeast like S-05 is $2.40, not the $4 you see elsewhere.

Sounds like a commercial - brewbros.biz

First of all, I didn't say that any of the reasons I posted were THE reason, only some possibilities. I only wanted to point out that it's easy to sit back an criticize without having all the facts. As I said before, unless you've walked in their shoes you really have no idea.

As for the examples such as B&H, Campmor, etc., those are big operations and a LARGE portion of their business is mail order. So again, volume pricing applies and they operate on a whole different scale of economics than a small, privately owned store. You can't really compare the two.

The theft % applies here too. If a small store owner, which typically has less than 10 employees, is experiencing 80% of it's theft from said employees, they are either very good at stopping shop lifting or have hired the wrong people. Also keep in mind that these stores don't have high-tech security, surveillance, and "loss prevention departments" staff, so loss from shop lifting may well be higher.

Also, it's not just books that Amazon makes cheaper online. They sell nearly everything now. There's whole websites dedicated to finding deals online. There's phone apps for finding deals online. Even apps to where you scan barcodes of something you see in store to find the cheapest deal online. So if you think that people don't expect online prices to be lower, you're fooling yourself.

The Walmart example is a good one. Where I live there's a Sam's club right next to Walmart. Sometimes a certain item in Sams Club are priced higher than next door, which is the opposite of what you expect. Frequently you can find items at their website for even less. Best Buy is another example, they offer quite a few deals online that are not available in stores.

Overall the point I wanted to make, back on the original topic, is this. I don't think many successful small business owners are out to rip off their customers. There undoubtedly are a few, but they likely won't stay in business long. They have to look at all of their costs of doing business and price their products accordingly. Every store has it's own set of challenges.

My guess as to why it is cheaper online- So they can still have a store front. To compete online Im sure they have to be on the low end but it helps them keep inventory higher and fresher so that you the instore shopper still get the junk you want

Sure, the local stores here are higher than online but it sure is nice to be able to drop by on a Friday afternoon on the way home from work and pick up the supplies for an impromptu Sat morning brew!

My LHBS charges less for grain if you call in advance and place an order. Her answer as to why it is so is pretty simple: she mans the ship pretty much by herself so the time she spends milling grain or talking to a customer during opening hours is time where she cannot watch the store or greet in other customers. It's also an incencitive to free up/structure her workload, since she will mill the grain before opening hours. My guess is that a lot of her customers, especially the guys who bulk buy, use this service and it is a sensible practice, unless you don't know what you're going to get or brew when you enter the store.

The formula suits my needs: I email her 3 days in advance, the order is ready with my name on it when I arrive, I pay and I'm out in 5 minutes, wich is nice, since there's no free parking in front.

Mine doesn't seem too bad on grain prices. What do you think is cheaper? Buying 55# of Marris Otter from LHBS or having buying it online and then paying to have a 55# item shipped to you?

If we're going to get all worried about answering the original question, here it is - it was NOT about why a LHBS might be more expensive than an on-line retailer:

"Are all homebrew stores insanely crazy about their prices?"

That's NOT a question about pricing structures, or why they can be more expensive.

I may have answered differently if that was what was actually asked.

the craziest thing I saw was teflon tape for 7 bucks, I can get it for $.79 I did have a good experience with him though and I really didn't check out the grain prices I am sure he has great prices on that

You wouldn't complain if you lived in Canada. Malt is cheap, but everything else is double to what it is in the US. Still, homebrewing is way cheaper than buying Budweiser at $38.00 a case.


Conehead