The_bird's "Steve Grogan smack-talk" thread

Dude said:

I told you before--you can talk as much smack as you want, just start your own "football smack talk" thread for it. Then I'll kick you in the nuts over Steve Grogan and Tony Eason all day long.

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DON'T YOU EVER - EVER - SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT STEVE GROGAN~!

You think Favre's a tough guy? I'd like to see HIM play in a frickin' neck brace!

Steve Grogan's one of the toughest SOBs you'll ever find.

Who is Steve Grogan? Surely not this freak...

That's the only guy google would dig up.

here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_grogan

they left out one important fact....... he sucked.

todd_k said:

they left out one important fact....... he sucked.

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LOL! :rockin:

(couldn't find a bigger pic)

The person to give props to, actually, is Troy Brown. He's a couple catches away from the Pats all-time record (he's nowhere near the recieving yards mark, though, Stanley Morgan averaged almost 20 yards a catch and currently has both records).

Brown was an eighth-round pick, barely played his first season, got cut before his second, but was brought back. Why I'll always love Troy Brown is that after a decade in the league, he willingly learned to play defensive back a couple years ago, and when injuries decimated the secondary he stepped in AND DID OK. His three intereceptions ought to count toward his reception totals, IMHO. He still plays a little bit on the defensive end. His offensive numbers are down a lot recently, in part because he doesn't get to focus on playing just one side of the ball anymore.

Never a GREAT receiver, but always very good. One of the best at getting open for the short, quick receptions that were a staple of the Pats' offense (especially during the '01 SB run). Phenomenal hands. Not terribly fast, not all that big, but very quick - an exceptional slot receiver.

And, you love him for doing whatever the team needed him to do to win. Catch passes, return kicks, play corner. And, he wasn't BAD as a defensive back - at times he was our third best DB, and while he wouldn't have made it in the league solely playing D, he developed into a respectable player back there (a LOT better than the guys there were bringing in off the street).

So is Tom Brady a product of the system or just a great QB (and could play well in any system)?

The system has changed, Tom's learned how to throw the deeper ball (not the bombs that Farve unloads) a lot better. They also have a running game now, which they didn't before. When Troy caught 100+ balls, I don't think he ever cracked 1,000 yards because they were all quick throws in leiu of a running game. They don't do that anymore, because they don't really have to limit Brady and because they've got a pair of workhorses.

So, back in 2001, Brady would NOT have succeeded in too many systems, but today - because he's worked his ass off and gotten better - he'd be fine pretty much anywhere (probably not systems geared purely towards vertical attacks, but hardly anybody focused on the deep ball anymore anyway).

Back to the man of the thread:

Grogan was known for his toughness. He played hard for 16 years despite suffering a variety of injuries that included five knee surgeries, screws in his leg, a cracked fibula, two ruptured disks in his neck (which he played with for over a season), a broken left hand (he instead handed off with his right hand), two separated shoulders on each side, the reattachment of a tendon to his throwing elbow and three concussions.

But the modest Grogan will say he only suffered "a couple" of injuries while in the league. For him it wasn't a matter of being tough it was a matter of going out, earning his job and doing what he loved to do.

"I just loved playing football and I loved the game," he said,. "Also, in the back of my mind I knew if I took too much time off somebody else would come along and scoop up my job and I didn't want that to happen. I played through injuries the best I could when I was hurt. I just had to fight through a lot of things, but it wasn't that difficult."

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http://www.nflplayers.com/news/news_release.aspx?id=4087

the_bird said:

You think Favre's a tough guy? I'd like to see HIM play in a frickin' neck brace!

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It'll probably happen this year.

Incidentally, I love Favre for his games-played streak as well; I know damn well he's had his share of injuries and played through them. Not sure, though, if he starts over Grogan on the All-Tough-SOB Team.

Notice, Dude, I never objected to your talking smack about Tony Eason. Hell, I'll contribute to that!

Eason was actually a little before I started paying attention to the Pats. My earliest memories are the very end of Eason's tenure, with Grogan coming back in, doing OK, wearing the brace, watching guys like Marc Wilson and Tommy Hodson and Hugh Millen (who I swore was going to be The Man for us) in the pre-Drew era. I have zero good memories about Tony Eason.

the_bird said:

Back to the man of the thread:

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My bad, I didn't realize this was only a Steve grogan thread. I thought it was no holds barred smack talk.



Well, Steve Grogan was a *****. Favre played with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and still led the league in TD passes.

Dude, can you add a poll for me, I don't know how:

Q: Who's the biggest *****?

A. Brett Favre, who led the lead in TD passes playing with a broken thumb
B. Steve Grogan, who played with a broken neck
C. Ralph Nader

the_bird said:

Notice, Dude, I never objected to your talking smack about Tony Eason. Hell, I'll contribute to that!

Eason was actually a little before I started paying attention to the Pats. My earliest memories are the very end of Eason's tenure, with Grogan coming back in, doing OK, wearing the brace, watching guys like Marc Wilson and Tommy Hodson and Hugh Millen (who I swore was going to be The Man for us) in the pre-Drew era. I have zero good memories about Tony Eason.

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I'll give you a little bit of personal historic info about me....back in 86, I was a Patriots fan as well as a Packer fan. I was in that teenage period where I wanted to be a fan of a winning team. I had relatives in MA and we visited them during that season, and I got to go to a preseason game, and I got a sweatshirt with what I thought was the best logo in all of sports. I had teenage boy love for Craig James. I remember staying up past my bedtime with a black and white TV in my bedroom watching the Patriots play. then, after the Super Bowl debacle I quickly came to my senses.

Anyway, I obviously don't know the old players like you do, but I DO remember the years of Tony Franklin and Tony Eason and Andre Tippett and John Hannah and all those guys. Good time, good times.

But Grogan still sucked, neck brace or not. He was like the modern day Joey Harrington.

the_bird said:

Dude, can you add a poll for me, I don't know how:

Q: Who's the biggest *****?

A. Brett Favre, who led the lead in TD passes playing with a broken thumb
B. Steve Grogan, who played with a broken neck
C. Ralph Nader

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No can do.

Notice that when people talk about Grogan, it's always his toughness, not his precision passing...

I know he wasn't very good, his numbers really sucked. He was pretty mobile from what I've read (his "glory years" were before my time). He's been called one of the hardest hitting players on those teams, which maybe speaks more to his teammates than anything else...

But he's like Troy; not the best, but a damn hard worked, and someone that you love to root for.

Where's Boston? I need his historical perspective.

If I remember correctly, Grogan set the season record in 1976 for rushing TDs by a quarterback. This was before the "slide" rule. Steve Grogan was anything but a *****. He took his share of hits.

The Michael Vick of his time, only with leadership skills and without the herpes.

BOSTONBREWIN' said:

If I remember correctly, Grogan set the season record in 1976 for rushing TDs by a quarterback. This was before the "slide" rule. Steve Grogan was anything but a *****. He took his share of hits.

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I agree, I liked Grogan. He was no Favre though.

Jeff, what recipe did you use for the SNCA you brewed?

the_bird said:

Dude, can you add a poll for me, I don't know how:

Q: Who's the biggest *****?

A. Brett Favre, who led the lead in TD passes playing with a broken thumb
B. Steve Grogan, who played with a broken neck
C. Ralph Nader

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D. Brett Farve again, who played with a separated shoulder (non-throwing).

ablrbrau said:

D. Brett Farve again, who played with a separated shoulder (non-throwing).

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Yeah.

And besides, who needs a neck to throw anyway? Grogan was a *****. He didn't lead the league in TDs with that broken neck.

Dude said:

He was like the modern day Joey Harrington.

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I think we have yet to really see what Joey Harrington can do. I blame the coaches in Detroit for possibly ruining this guy's career. How far do you think Barry Sanders would have gone had he played for someone other than Detroit?

I'm one of the few (apparently) Joey fans, I personally think he has what it takes. Noone would have done well in Detroit's offense of the last five years.

Dude said:

I'll give you a little bit of personal historic info about me....back in 86, I was a Patriots fan as well as a Packer fan. I was in that teenage period where I wanted to be a fan of a winning team.

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Wait a minute....I can't let this one go without a comment. In '86 you wanted to be a fan of a winning team? I could think of a team that won one more game that year than the Pats...... Why didn't you pick that one???????

Dude said:

Jeff, what recipe did you use for the SNCA you brewed?

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Dude, you've got mail

todd_k said:

Wait a minute....I can't let this one go without a comment. In '86 you wanted to be a fan of a winning team? I could think of a team that won one more game that year than the Pats...... Why didn't you pick that one???????

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Probably because they had an a$$hole, punk QB....and they won like 5 more games than the Pats that year, but I never met a Bears fan who could count

BOSTONBREWIN' said:

Probably because they had an a$$hole, punk QB....and they won like 5 more games than the Pats that year, but I never met a Bears fan who could count

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I was talking about one more game IN THE PLAYOFFS. Remember when they *****-slapped the Pats all over the field?

Real classy move, giving the ball to the Fridge instead of Sweetness. The karma of that move alone is responsible for the last twenty years of general suckitude.

todd_k said:

I was talking about one more game IN THE PLAYOFFS. Remember when they *****-slapped the Pats all over the field?

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You're still wrong, we had to win a wild card game, Bears didn't. I won't argue the fact that the Bears had a FAR superior team than the Pats. I think they rank right behind the '72 Dolphins

the_bird said:

Real classy move, giving the ball to the Fridge instead of Sweetness. The karma of that move alone is responsible for the last twenty years of general suckitude.

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Yeah, it's horrible when a head coach puts defensive players in on offense....

todd_k said:

Yeah, it's horrible when a head coach puts defensive players in on offense....

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Unless it's Mike Vrabel

Dude said:

My bad, I didn't realize this was only a Steve grogan thread. I thought it was no holds barred smack talk.

Well, Steve Grogan was a *****. Favre played with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and still led the league in TD passes.

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See, here's the root issue.....Favre is, in many ways, comperable to The Great Steve Grogan. Certainly the respective players stocks are growing more and more similar as Farve Farewell Tour II and now III are transpiring.

And here is where it gets to Brady. Grogan cannot be compared to Brady. He is simply not nearly as good. Despite Grogans fond history with Pats fans, Brady is NFL Elite, Grogan was not...historicly..

This makes Favre and Brady, by definition, uncomparable, But in a different way than Brady/Grogan. Favre will always be a rugged gunslinger who underachived and disrespected his team and his own memory, by dragging his team through the mud for at least two overstayed years. Brady will be the overachieving perfectionist who used his teammates to win games....and multiple championships.

Incomparable.

BOSTONBREWIN' said:

Probably because they had an a$$hole, punk QB....and they won like 5 more games than the Pats that year, but I never met a Bears fan who could count

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And if the Super Bowl Shuffle wasn't enough to create lifetime Bear haters, I don't know what is.

And I hate to point this out (really HATE it) but that a$$hole QB went along for the ride for another ring when the Pack won in '96. How many passes did he throw that year, 3?

Hey, Fiery Sword, is Kelly's Roast Beef still in business? Lotsa fond memories there

BOSTONBREWIN' said:

Unless it's Mike Vrabel

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'passes' have also been extended to Richard Seymour, Larry Izzo and, of course, Dan Klecko.

Fiery Sword said:

Favre will always be a rugged gunslinger who underachived and disrespected his team and his own memory, by dragging his team through the mud for at least two overstayed years.

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That is quite possibly the most untrue statement I have ever read.

Please explain? Underachieved? Disrespected? What?

BOSTONBREWIN' said:

Hey, Fiery Sword, is Kelly's Roast Beef still in business? Lotsa fond memories there

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Yea, Kelly's is still there. It's funny you mention it - I actually worked there for a bit back in high school - you would not believe how cold it can be a Kelly's in early February at midnight! Their food has gone down hill a bit, but it is still worth the trip, and also the money. It certainly has got more and more expensive. Clam plate will run ya upwards of $16....a lobster roll (still the best tho) you'll need a twenty, and a fistfull of change.

We Revere holdouts are hoping, and working, for a respectable rebirth of Revere Beach. Looking at those old Norman Gautreau paintings of the Beach circa it's Golden Era makes some of us wonder why it could not be that vibrant now.

Dude said:

That is quite possibly the most untrue statement I have ever read.

Please explain? Underachieved? Disrespected? What?

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So you are one of those Green Bay fans that think Favre is still the future (until he decides to not be) of this team?

ablrbrau said:

And if the Super Bowl Shuffle wasn't enough to create lifetime Bear haters, I don't know what is.

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I thought that was really bad back when I first saw it in 86. I saw it just the other day and... oh my... it's just awful!