Confusion about hops

Okay, I'm getting the hang of this whole brewing thing, but I think I may be somewhat confused about how to properly use hops. I've made seven batches so far, and I've been boiling all of my bittering hops for about 30mins.

I'm curious about when exactly the aroma and flavor disappear, and all you're left with is the bitterness. Like, are there particular cutoff ranges? I usually see recipes that have the bittering hops in for 60mins, and then more around 15mins, and then aroma hops around 0-5mins.

The other thing I'm not 100% is exactly what time you count in those measurements. Like, I've been putting in my bittering hops, then going 20mins, and adding finishing hops and turning off the heat, then letting it go for 10mins before I start to cool the wort in earnest. Am I misunderstanding the process?

Just to be clear, all my beers have turned out well, and I'm really happy with them, but I just want to make sure I understand this aspect of it, before I miscalculate somewhere down the line. If someone could clear this up for me, I'd really appreciate it.

Torchiest said:

I've been boiling all of my bittering hops for about 30 minutes... I usually see recipes that have the bittering hops in for 60mins... I've been putting in my bittering hops, then going 20mins, and adding finishing hops and turning off the heat, then letting it go for 10mins

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If your total boil time is 60 min. then add bittering hops as soon as the wort is boiling. Flavor hops around 30 min. and aroma around 10-0 min.

My hop schedule (for a really hoppy pale ale) is usually 60, 30, 15,8, dry hop.

The longer you boil the more bitterness you get and the less you boil the more aroma/flavor you get (or lose)

All times are approximate when it comes to hops, but they all are talking about how long the addition is boiled. In the case of bittering additions, a rolling boil is required for the isomerization to occur. Just sitting in 212F water doesn't work. With a few exceptions, the countdown starts at 60 minutes. Bittering hops are added in the 90-45 minute period, flavor 30-15, aroma 15-0 plus dry hopping. These are not cutoffs. A 15 minutes add can be flavor and aroma and will contribute some bittering.

The easiest way to deal with hopping is an old fashioned kitchen timer. Wind it to 60 minutes when the first bittering add is done. Then just follow the schedule.

What you have been doing is boiling your bittering hops for 20 minutes. The 10 minutes with the heat off doesn't matter for bittering. As you've noticed, this works ok. You are wasting a fair amount of the alpha acids in the hops, though and the ales are less bitter than they should be.

The only think I do differently is set my timers to go off when it's time for me to do something next. So if my hop schedule is 60/20/0 I'll throw the bittering in and set the timer for 40 minutes. When the buzzer goes off, I hop again and set for 20 minutes. It's easy to get caught up in other things and miss your target.

Yeah...if you're boiling your wort without hops in it, it's pretty much besides the point. That's why folks who use prehopped extract can get away without a boil at all. The entire point of boiling the wort is to extract the bitterness and flavor/aroma from the hops. So, I'll chime in here and second what David said. Toss in your bittering hops as soon as you achieve a boil, or before that if you want. But your boil countdown should start as soon as you have hops in boiling wort.

Cool, thanks for all the helpful answers. That really eliminates the confusion for me. Luckily, I generally don't care for hoppy ales that much, and I've been happy with the results, but at least now I can be more precise in my calculations.

Well, there's a difference between "hoppy" and "bitter". Is it the bitterness that you don't care for? Or the actual hop flavors/aromas?

It's a little of everything. For example, I don't care for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that much, really, but I love Dogfish Head 90 Minute Imperial IPA, just because it has enough malt to balance the hops.

I'm coming around on hops in general, really, just because the smell of the hops before adding them to the wort is awesome. In fact, I plan on attempting an Imperial IPA within a month.

I have been eating my leaf hops. :fro:

zoebisch01 said:

I have been eating my leaf hops. :fro:

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I make love to my hops, then I take them to The Outback for dinner. But then I don't call them again for at least a month.

Torben Ulrich said:

I make love to my hops, then I take them to The Outback for dinner. But then I don't call them again for at least a month.

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Typical man.

I pamper my hops and speak sweetly to them. I hold them up to my face and sniff them gently. I tell them I love them. Then I through them into boiling wort.

Lorena

lorenae said:

Typical man.

I pamper my hops and speak sweetly to them. I hold them up to my face and sniff them gently. I tell them I love them. Then I through them into boiling wort.

Lorena

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LOL.

Perfect.

Torben Ulrich said:

I make love to my hops, then I take them to The Outback for dinner. But then I don't call them again for at least a month.

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I always take them to The Outback first, a couple giant gin and tonics helps to set the mood...

To muddy the waters a little, another hopping technique is to add your bittering hops later in the boil, but add more. I recently did a Pale Ale (see signature) with my hop additions starting at the 30 minute mark. This is where software like ProMash or Beer Smith comes in handy to get your IBUs right. I did this to get more hop flavor and aroma out of the beer. I think this techniques works better with a higher alpha acid hop so you don't have to add 2-3 ounces to get your IBUs at the right level.

seyahmit said:

To muddy the waters a little, another hopping technique is to add your bittering hops later in the boil, but add more. I recently did a Pale Ale (see signature) with my hop additions starting at the 30 minute mark. This is where software like ProMash or Beer Smith comes in handy to get your IBUs right. I did this to get more hop flavor and aroma out of the beer. I think this techniques works better with a higher alpha acid hop so you don't have to add 2-3 ounces to get your IBUs at the right level.

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I tried this method on a recent brew and it worked out really well. I brewed two beers with the same grain bills and same hop types. The only difference was that in the first I used a traditional hop schedule and the second I used the "huge whack of hops at 20minutes left" hop schedule. Both recipes were formulated using promash to within a few IBUs of each other. The late hop addition beer was waaaay more bitter than the first. Hop calculations are tricky things, and with all due respect, seyahmit, software can't be trusted for late hop additions.

The final stage of the experiment will be a brew consisting of the same amount of IBUs in the same beer, only using first-wort hopping. There will be a full report if I ever get off this rig and brew the damn thing.

lorenae said:

Typical man.

I pamper my hops and speak sweetly to them. I hold them up to my face and sniff them gently. I tell them I love them. Then I through them into boiling wort.

Lorena

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Typical Woman

Haha, you know just thinking about tasting some more hops is getting me all hot and bothered.

seyahmit said:

To muddy the waters a little, another hopping technique is to add your bittering hops later in the boil, but add more. I recently did a Pale Ale (see signature) with my hop additions starting at the 30 minute mark. This is where software like ProMash or Beer Smith comes in handy to get your IBUs right. I did this to get more hop flavor and aroma out of the beer. I think this techniques works better with a higher alpha acid hop so you don't have to add 2-3 ounces to get your IBUs at the right level.

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I have been reading about this technique over on the "green board" lately...it sounds pretty interesting and I might take a stab a the hopburst JPA
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=26859

Chairman Cheyco said:

I tried this method on a recent brew and it worked out really well. I brewed two beers with the same grain bills and same hop types. The only difference was that in the first I used a traditional hop schedule and the second I used the "huge whack of hops at 20minutes left" hop schedule. Both recipes were formulated using promash to within a few IBUs of each other. The late hop addition beer was waaaay more bitter than the first. Hop calculations are tricky things, and with all due respect, seyahmit, software can't be trusted for late hop additions.

The final stage of the experiment will be a brew consisting of the same amount of IBUs in the same beer, only using first-wort hopping. There will be a full report if I ever get off this rig and brew the damn thing.

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I will give a report when I can get around to bottling my APA. I should have thought ahead and did a side by side test like you did.