Question about Brutus welds.

Brewpatrol · Dec 22, 2009

Let me start by saying I'm not a welder and no nothing about it. I would like to know though why most of you who are building your own Brutus systems weld the long top frame sections to the actual sides of the legs rather than weld the long portions on top of the legs. I'm in the designing stages of my own and was thinkiing it would be stronger and able to hold more weight if done this way. Anyone care to explain? Flame away.

Mirilis · Dec 22, 2009

I use the bottom long beam as a gas manifold so the legs have to be on the sides of it to seal it off.. otherwise i will go boom in my garage

CodeRage · Dec 22, 2009

I put mine on top of the legs as well. I think it was originally done that way so the vertical post could be capped and it look okay. I mitered my top and bottom bit of framing with 45's and then mounted them on top/bottom of the legs. The stringer piece in the middle is really just for the gas manifold if you choose to go that direction.

I would rather have compression stress on the box tubing than shear stress on the welds.

user 40839 · Dec 22, 2009

A lot of folks have actually mitred the corners of the top sections, and mounted the legs underneath that. This way, you do have the increased strength you mention, in addition to it being nice and smooth once the welds are ground flat. I know this will be the way I do it when I build my frame:

You just have to make sure you adjust the dimensions when you cut the frame out, with each piece being four inches longer than originally specified.

Brewpatrol · Dec 22, 2009

Mirilis said:
I use the bottom long beam as a gas manifold so the legs have to be on the sides of it to seal it off.. otherwise i will go boom in my garage

So you actually pump the gas into the lower beam and it disperses evenly to your burners? What about the 2 top beams. Could they have been cut just a couple inches longer and welded to the tops of the legs since you aren't running gas through them?

Brewpatrol · Dec 22, 2009

ubermick said:
A lot of folks have actually mitred the corners of the top sections, and mounted the legs underneath that. This way, you do have the increased strength you mention, in addition to it being nice and smooth once the welds are ground flat. I know this will be the way I do it when I build my frame:

You just have to make sure you adjust the dimensions when you cut the frame out, with each piece being four inches longer than originally specified.

That looks nice. I think this is what I'm trying to go for so that all the weight rests on top of the actual legs. I know welds can be super strong and can probably hold hundreds if not thousands of pounds. I just keep seeing this bad image running through my head of hot wort falling through because of a weak weld.

Mirilis · Dec 22, 2009

Brewpatrol said:
So you actually pump the gas into the lower beam and it disperses evenly to your burners? What about the 2 top beams. Could they have been cut just a couple inches longer and welded to the tops of the legs since you aren't running gas through them?

yeah, theres no reason you cant do that. I just followed the original plans when I cut my steel. It holds fine btw, at least mine does. I havnt used it as an actual brew yet but I had a keggle on each of the burners heating water for multiple cooler mashes.

Im looking forward to trying mine out for real on new years eve

Lonnie Mac · Dec 22, 2009

So the premise behind my design is very simple my friends... I am a cheap scape! 16" of stainless put me over the two 20' sticks that I purchased, beside the fact that it ain't cheap to dig into another stick just for a foot or two...

As for the welds, well... They will indeed hold up a mack truck and should be every bit as strong as the steel itself; one should practice until it does otherwise...

I like the 45 degree mitered corners better myself, but my design also makes this frame extremely easy to build for the layman whom may want to build this thing on a crooked patio such as myself. Part of this whole idea was to have something that almost anyone could learn how to weld themselves, with the ease of having two large frames (front and back) that you simply stand up and attach all the smaller cross members...

Brew on brothas...

CodeRage · Dec 22, 2009

Lonnie Mac said:
So the premise behind my design is very simple my friends... I am a cheap scape! 16" of stainless put me over the two 20' sticks that I purchased, beside the fact that it ain't cheap to dig into another stick just for a foot or two...

...

I like the 45 degree mitered corners better myself, but my design also makes this frame extremely easy to build for the layman whom may want to build this thing on a crooked patio such as myself. ...

Brew on brothas...

Yup, I remember reading that now. Makes perfect sense to me.

Who needs a flat surface when you have ratchet straps, come alongs, and prybars?

Lonnie Mac · Dec 22, 2009

CodeRage said:
Yup, I remember reading that now. Makes perfect sense to me.

Who needs a flat surface when you have ratchet straps, come alongs, and prybars?

Yea,, funny thing is that I work(ed) in a state of the art shop for my day job. But there was no way that I could fabricate anything for myself in it!

Brewpatrol · Dec 22, 2009

So I went to this metal fabrication place around the corner from where I live and asked if they could weld this together provided I give them the specs. I then ask If the can weld it in SS. They said they can't weld SS but they can weld regular steel. WTF?

IrregularPulse · Dec 22, 2009

Welding SS is a whole other beast. A lot of shops can't weld SS. Why do you need to make it out of SS? Unless you have a crazy deal, it seems like a waste of money.

mplutodh1 · Dec 22, 2009

Honestly, I still don't get the reasoning for building out of stainless. Sure it looks slick, but the cost just doesn't make any sense to me. Save that $ and put it towards nice sanitary fittings, all stainless tubing/fittings, nicer brew kettles, etc. Or heck, save it all together and put it towards your grain bills.

A stand doesn't touch the wort (well OK - it shouldn't but hey brewing can get messy!) - so it makes little to sense to spend that extra $ on stainless.

Steel is cheaper, easier to work with and you won't get dinged as bad when trying to find a welder.

Lonnie Mac · Dec 22, 2009

mplutodh1 said:
Honestly, I still don't get the reasoning for building out of stainless. Sure it looks slick, but the cost just doesn't make any sense to me. Save that $ and put it towards nice sanitary fittings, all stainless tubing/fittings, nicer brew kettles, etc. Or heck, save it all together and put it towards your grain bills.

A stand doesn't touch the wort (well OK - it shouldn't but hey brewing can get messy!) - so it makes little to sense to spend that extra $ on stainless.

Steel is cheaper, easier to work with and you won't get dinged as bad when trying to find a welder.

This question does come up from time to time...

Honestly, I'll leave it for others to answer my friend...

mplutodh1 · Dec 22, 2009

Lonnie Mac said:
This question does come up from time to time... Honestly, I'll leave it for others to answer my friend...

Haha thanks Lonnie - no need to really answer it for my benefit - as we're going mild steel but if the OP wants more information, folks can jump in! Mine was more a rhetorical question

Brewpatrol · Dec 22, 2009

I just figured SS was the best thats why I asked. Mine doesn't need to be SS I just thought it looked cool. I was looking at the single tier systems from Morebeer and SS just looked awesome. I think what I'd like to do with mine is maybe have it powder coated some awesome color. Like Hugger Orange. Maybe to match my 1969 Camaro Z28 I keep dreaming that I have.

user 40839 · Dec 22, 2009

Stainless has it's benefits. Beyond the bling factor, it doesn't rust, and is easier to clean if you take the time to grind it down and get a polish on it (it doesn't have to be HYPER shiny), and is more durable - don't have to worry about your finish coming off with the burners.

It seems to me that a lot of folks who use mild or carbon steel are doing it because they get a nuts deal on it, but when you factor in the cost of either painting it or powder coating it, there's not a huge difference in cost that I see, somewhere in the region of $100. (I can get 40' of 16GA stainless 2x2 for $278, the same amount of mild steel would be about $130, plus the cost of finishing).

I can't comment on the welding, since I've never welded a thing in my life. The places I called to quote said that welding stainless added about 20% to the cost of labor, and that bore out in the quotes. In terms of shops not being set up for it, I didn't run into that. Could be that TIG welding is recommended for SS, but to the best of my knowledge, Lonnie welded his frame with a MIG welder, which most shops *should* have?

Lonnie Mac · Dec 22, 2009

ubermick said:
Stainless has it's benefits. Beyond the bling factor, it doesn't rust, and is easier to clean if you take the time to grind it down and get a polish on it (it doesn't have to be HYPER shiny), and is more durable - don't have to worry about your finish coming off with the burners.

It seems to me that a lot of folks who use mild or carbon steel are doing it because they get a nuts deal on it, but when you factor in the cost of either painting it or powder coating it, there's not a huge difference in cost that I see, somewhere in the region of $100. (I can get 40' of 16GA stainless 2x2 for $278, the same amount of mild steel would be about $130, plus the cost of finishing).

I can't comment on the welding, since I've never welded a thing in my life. The places I called to quote said that welding stainless added about 20% to the cost of labor, and that bore out in the quotes. In terms of shops not being set up for it, I didn't run into that. Could be that TIG welding is recommended for SS, but to the best of my knowledge, Lonnie welded his frame with a MIG welder, which most shops *should* have?

Indeed I did use MIG... I would have loved to bring home a TIG from work, but that is owned by the gubbment... MIG will lay down a nice penetrating weld none the less, but I figured that since I was going to grind them flush anyway I chose MIG. It is MUCH faster throwing down a MIG vs a TIG to boot. TIG on the other hand, is a tedious, most gorgeous process... There is nothing better looking than a well laid TIG weld. You fellas know my thoughts... To each his own!

user 40839 · Dec 22, 2009

Lonnie Mac said:
TIG on the other hand, is a tedious, most gorgeous process... There is nothing better looking than a well laid TIG weld. You fellas know my thoughts... To each his own!

So here's the question, then.

If the difference between welding SS using TIG and MIG is merely a better looking weld, does it even matter if you're planning on grinding your welds flush? (Okay, saying that it's "merely" about appearances is waaaaaaay oversimplifying, but you get my meaning!)

Lonnie Mac · Dec 22, 2009

ubermick said:
So here's the question, then.

If the difference between welding SS using TIG and MIG is merely a better looking weld, does it even matter if you're planning on grinding your welds flush? (Okay, saying that it's "merely" about appearances is waaaaaaay oversimplifying, but you get my meaning!)

It is likely with TIG that you may not even have to grind your welds flush as they lay down so pretty and much more flush than MIG... Remember, no one has to grind the welds... I did it because I did not want to be dragging my nice pots across the top scratching them all up. Once I ground the top flush, I thought the front could use it too... I am not a good welder after all!

user 40839 · Dec 22, 2009

Gotcha. But for our purposes of knocking together a stand, MIG and a few hours with an angle grinder is perfectly fine for SS? (I wouldn't want to be doing sanitary welds with a MIG, or welding a bike frame with it!)

Actually, that reminds me... did you have any issues with the MIG warping the threads on any of the gas beam fittings?

Question about Brutus welds.

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