All Grain - Aeration

Is stirring of the wort prior to pitching yeast adequate to aerate the wort for All-Grain brewing or should I be using an aerator?

Thanks!
Mike

You don't need an aerator. Shaking the fermenter for 40 seconds will saturate the wort with air. That's 8ppm oxygen. I've never made a beer that wasn't happy with that, but have heard some yeasts are finicky. If you want more than 8ppm you will need an oxegen tank.

It depends on the beer. Oxygen seems to be vital for yeast reproduction so unless you pitch lots of yeast, you'll want aeration to help get the proper population. For a 1.040 OG session beer, you might not need much aeration at all. When you make your imperial you need way more yeast so aeration is more critical.

Also consider your end goal. If it is to make great beer for you to enjoy in your own home, I'd just shake it and enjoy in 3 weeks.

If you are trying to perfect yeast techniques / move into professional brewing it may be worth it to experiment with oxygenating the wort and testing different pitch rates.

It isn't necessary to make really fantastic beer, but it is another element of control to ensure consistency from batch to batch.

I found a trick that works for me. When I transfer from the BK to the carboy, I siphon it through a small mesh strainer. The funnel also has a "filter" with smaller holes as well. Those two things combined with dropping it straight down into the middle of the carboy creates as good aeration as I think you can get without O2.

Example: I brewed a 1.072 beer Saturday and by the end of the transfer, I had to change what I was doing because the fluffy, foamy goodness was about to come out of the carboy. 4-5 inches of foam +/-

Shaking is good, I have used a paint mixer in a drill and that does a better job.
That being said, no method will put oxygen into the wort near optimum levels anywhere near as well as just pumping O2 in there.

Ya for most beers shaking and using Bricks method are good enough. Usually when you start getting into bigger beers like 1070+ you might want to consider getting an aquarium pump and an oxygen stone or a straight up oxygen tank aerator. Oxygen is crucial in yeast reproduction which is especially important on larger beers. Some folks will dose it and then dose it again within 12 to 18 hours.

In essence, if you make small beers probably not an issue unless yo are getting a lot of underattenuation or something like that. Bigger beers, might want to consider it.

Agreed Hopper... some sort of aeration system might be my next upgrade because I love huge beers.

Brewed a 1.108 RIS that (thankfully) fermented down, as of day 17, to 1.023 with this method. Estimated 1.022 FG. Of course the decanted gallon starter didn't hurt lol... WLP099 is a beast.

After fermentation temperature control and proper pitching rates, the next logical step in improving your beer is properly oxygenating. $60 is a small price to pay for that, I think. The places you'll see the most improvement are big beers and british beers (and other yeasts that love tons of oxygen like WLP090 and a few other hard flocculators), as well as reduced lag times and shorter, cleaner ferments all around. I highly recommend it.

If you don't have the first two down, though, work on those first for sure.

Yeah the last few beers I have oxygenated with a stone literally took off within 4 hours...

Can you guys recommend a aeration "system"...off the shelf.....

um, i use the morebeer.com one which I like. I was just recently on the williams brewing website and noticed that there's has a long metal tube that's attached to the oxygen stone which I personally feel is probably better then the morebeer one since you can actually clean the tube.

You just have to go and pick up some o2 tanks at the hardware store but there like 7 bucks each or something.

mgortel said:

Can you guys recommend a aeration "system"...off the shelf.....

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A Mixstir and a drill is every bit as effective in results as an expensive O2 system.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/mix-stir-agitator-rod.html

I just got the one from williams.
Haven't used it yet but I liked the long stainless tube since it will keep the stone on the bottom and let me control where it is.

Picked up O2 bottles at home depot.

I bought the Williams Oxygenation Kit a couple months ago. My beer quality has improved dramatically. Consistent results, always reach FG. One of the best pieces of equipment I invested in. That and the little welding o2 tanks at Lowes.

Denny said:

A Mixstir and a drill is every bit as effective in results as an expensive O2 system.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/mix-stir-agitator-rod.html

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Not true. The most vigorous air-only aeration system (mix-stir, aquarium pump, venturi) can only get you up to about 6-8 PPM dO2 and that takes a lot of darn work with air only. A minute with pure O2 and you're at the optimal 10ppm dO2. Plus, that mix stir is almost twenty bucks, and that's if you already own a drill. For forty more you can be using pure O2.

I bought the Williams aeration wand and it worked well until one day when I started oxygenating my wort, somehow pressure built up and literally blew the stone off the stainless steel wand. Another issue with these is a friend of mine traced two infected batches back to the aeration stone. Make sure you sanitize!

I was able to fix my stone by putting a spare rubber o-ring on the wand and gluing the stone to the ring.

I use O2 because it ensures that fermentation starts quickly. I do starters of the appropriate size and oxygenate so that nothing else has a chance to take over the wort but my yeast. I usually see fermentation sign in a few hours and have blow off hose activity within 3-4 hours max. Fermentation is usually vigorous and appears to be efficient. I also ensure I feed the yeast nutrients while doing the starter. All these steps have improved the quality of my brews.

Sanitizing the stone and wand is just a matter of soaking in starsan I suppose...like anything else? Maybe soak longer than other items since the star san needs to get into the stone.....???

I figure on giving boiling it right after use a try.

daksin said:

Not true. The most vigorous air-only aeration system (mix-stir, aquarium pump, venturi) can only get you up to about 6-8 PPM dO2 and that takes a lot of darn work with air only. A minute with pure O2 and you're at the optimal 10ppm dO2. Plus, that mix stir is almost twenty bucks, and that's if you already own a drill. For forty more you can be using pure O2.

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Based on results, it's equally effective. If it wasn't I would have stopped using it yeats ago.

I have heard, and it makes sense, that in order to keep those aeration stones clean you need to turn on the O2 before you put it into the wort, that way the pressure keeps the wort from working into the pores. If it gets in there and gets caked up you might have it pop off as one poster states, or infections, or just plain clogged. I just got mine, I have not used it so I am just passing along what I heard.

dbrewski said:

I have heard, and it makes sense, that in order to keep those aeration stones clean you need to turn on the O2 before you put it into the wort, that way the pressure keeps the wort from working into the pores. If it gets in there and gets caked up you might have it pop off as one poster states, or infections, or just plain clogged. I just got mine, I have not used it so I am just passing along what I heard.

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That's correct. I boil mine for a few minutes then it sits in starsan. I turn on the gas and once I see bubbles I put it in the worth, aerate, then back in a bit of water and then starsan for a few seconds before I kill the gas. Sounds like a lot of wasted o2 but I'm on my 10th batch OJ same tank.

Denny said:

Based on results, it's equally effective. If it wasn't I would have stopped using it yeats ago.

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Every scientific research report ive read has said pure O2 is the only way to get over 8ppm. Optimal o2 level is 10-12ppm. You can shake and get 8ppm so if you aren't going with pure o2 it is just an effort to save shaking, which in itself is a good reason to get a wine degasser.

theveganbrewer said:

Every scientific research report ive read has said pure O2 is the only way to get over 8ppm. Optimal o2 level is 10-12ppm. You can shake and get 8ppm so if you aren't going with pure o2 it is just an effort to save shaking, which in itself is a good reason to get a wine degasser.

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Very true.

I would guess that the reason people say they get just as good of results is the oxygen is needed early on for reproduction.
Depending on the OG of the wort and the amount of yeast pitched, the importance of optimal reproduction can vary.

45_70sharps said:

Very true.

I would guess that the reason people say they get just as good of results is the oxygen is needed early on for reproduction.
Depending on the OG of the wort and the amount of yeast pitched, the importance of optimal reproduction can vary.

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Certainly. I went to pure O2 because the majority of what I brew is over 1.070.

theveganbrewer said:

Certainly. I went to pure O2 because the majority of what I brew is over 1.070.

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I like to brew big beers also.
I've got a virgin O2 system that I hope to break in this weekend.

theveganbrewer said:

Every scientific research report ive read has said pure O2 is the only way to get over 8ppm. Optimal o2 level is 10-12ppm. You can shake and get 8ppm so if you aren't going with pure o2 it is just an effort to save shaking, which in itself is a good reason to get a wine degasser.

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Personally, I seldom measure my beer...I drink it. My results using the MixStir are every bit as good as friends who use O2. What else matters?

theveganbrewer said:

Certainly. I went to pure O2 because the majority of what I brew is over 1.070.

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Same here. Again, if the MixStir didn't give me excellent results, I would have switched to something else several hundred batches back.

Denny said:

Personally, I seldom measure my beer...I drink it. My results using the MixStir are every bit as good as friends who use O2. What else matters?

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when you say MixStir is it one of those paint mixers that attach to a drill? When do you oxygenate with it...in the kettle, or the bucket?

dbrewski said:

when you say MixStir is it one of those paint mixers that attach to a drill? When do you oxygenate with it...in the kettle, or the bucket?

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Yeah, pretty much like that. I use it once the wort is in the fermenter, but you could also use it in the kettle once it's cooled.

I've had good luck with the paint mixer but I like big beers so an O2 system and doing a starter for my yeast every time is simple and it helps make sure the yeast gets a good start every time.,

There are obviously a ton of ways to make good beer and that certainly applies to "big" beers as well. Most of those styles were invented prior to the discovery of yeast or oxygen, let alone pressurized O2 canisters and diffusion stones.

Also, just by the numbers, shaking/splashing to 8ppm, letting the yeast eat for a bit, and then shaking and splashing some more provides just as much O2 as a 1 time 10 ppm blast.

Denny said:

Same here. Again, if the MixStir didn't give me excellent results, I would have switched to something else several hundred batches back.

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I noticed a fairly significant increase in the quality of my beer once I switched to pure O2. The mixer made excellent beer, but the O2 made even better beer.

Point is, both methods work, both make good beer. The reason I switched is that I was able to borrow a friend's O2 setup and do a side-by-side comparison. Since they're not too expensive, the O2 systems are well worth it, in my opinion.

billl said:

There are obviously a ton of ways to make good beer and that certainly applies to "big" beers as well. Most of those styles were invented prior to the discovery of yeast or oxygen, let alone pressurized O2 canisters and diffusion stones.

Also, just by the numbers, shaking/splashing to 8ppm, letting the yeast eat for a bit, and then shaking and splashing some more provides just as much O2 as a 1 time 10 ppm blast.

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I'm not knocking you for doing it that way.
I've always used to paint mixer before. I just think that by using the oxygen and a yeast starter I am going to get insurance and probably consistency for very little effort.

Can you make good beer without pure O2? Totally- I don't think very many people at all use it. That said, if there was no benefit to oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2, the pro's wouldn't do it. I'm not a rich dude, but $60 is not much to spend to instantly improve your beer. My ferments are faster, cleaner, and my yeast clears better than before, and I'd say that my beer was already very good before I started using pure O2.

"Oxygenator" is on my Christmas list for Santa to bring to me.......

daksin said:

Can you make good beer without pure O2? Totally- I don't think very many people at all use it. That said, if there was no benefit to oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2, the pro's wouldn't do it. I'm not a rich dude, but $60 is not much to spend to instantly improve your beer. My ferments are faster, cleaner, and my yeast clears better than before, and I'd say that my beer was already very good before I started using pure O2.

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My point of view is that we're homebrewers and not everything that commercial brewers do is necessary or applicable. Besides, it would have to be a BIG MixStir for them! And it's not like I haven't tried O2 to compare. Have you tried the MixStir?

Denny said:

My point of view is that we're homebrewers and not everything that commercial brewers do is necessary or applicable. Besides, it would have to be a BIG MixStir for them! And it's not like I haven't tried O2 to compare. Have you tried the MixStir?

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I used to shake vigorously and the effect is the same. I have a mix-stir for wine and mead degassing, primarily. My point of view is that the pros do things that make their beer better and I'm also a scientist, so I like to keep up with current research and best practices. The data tells me that oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2 improves beer, regardless of who makes it- I go with the data first. Gut feelings don't mean much to scientists, we like data.

Denny said:

Personally, I seldom measure my beer...I drink it. My results using the MixStir are every bit as good as friends who use O2. What else matters?

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I'm with Denny. I have a MixStir, but sometimes I don't even use it because I started holding up my tubing out of the March pump from the CFC to splash and aerate my wort. I have a big foamy head on my beer when I pitch the yeast.

I'm not 100% sure that you can get 10-12 ppm o2 with an oxygen system, but I'm sure I get 8 ppm o2 with my system so I'm happy with it.

My beers are pretty good, and I'd put them against any commercial brews.

daksin said:

I used to shake vigorously and the effect is the same..

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I think I'd have to disgree with that based on my experience.